The COVID-19 vaccine rollout in Australia has begun

[Lynda2475]

Pharmacists are perfectly trained and capable of delivering vaccinations and are among the most experienced at doing so in fact due to the volume they deliver!

Maybe in Victoria but in NSW they can only give flu, mmr and now covid. So as an adult for most vaccines you have to go to travel clinic or GP and you can most easily get flu vax at office via workplace program. Travel clinic and wokplace programs use nurses who give many more jabs each day than a pharmacist whose primary job is filling prescriptions.

Also impossible to distance properly in a cramped chemist warehouse store where aisles are crowded with discount shampoo, vs properly spaced chairs etc at the hubs.

There needs to be options other than pharmacies, to ensure everyone can get the jab they need in a timely manner.

Pharamcies do not do all flu vax, so no way they can do 100% of covid boosters on top.

 

[burmans]

I guess the end of cash/lottery incentives - reporting fromABC

'We're not considering a cash splash': Federal Government considers other COVID vaccine incentives​

The Prime Minister says the government has considered a range of incentives to encourage Australians to get COVID-19 vaccines.

Scott Morrison has rejected the Opposition's proposal to offer $300 cash payments to anyone who's fully vaccinated by December.

In response to reports that the government approached gambling company Tabcorp to design a vaccine lottery, Mr Morrison said such a plan was not being proceeded with.

But he's told Parliament other options will be looked at later on.

"Operation COVID shield has considered many types of incentives, Mr Speaker. Particularly when we're in Phase B of the program, not Phase A of the program, Mr Speaker," Mr Morrison said.

"But I tell you what we're not considering, we're not considering a cash splash."

Well he locked himself into that when he so quickly rejected the Labour proposal. A shame I think, while I think this was poorly targeted, I think we shouldn’t be ruling out any incentives.

 

[mviy]

There needs to be options other than pharmacies, to ensure everyone can get the jab they need in a timely manner.

There already are other options to get vaccinated. AZ and Pfizer at GPs and max vax hubs and respiratory clinics.

 

[mviy]

Well he locked himself into that when he so quickly rejected the Labour proposal. A shame I think, while I think this was poorly targeted, I think we shouldn’t be ruling out any incentives.

As I said up thread using vaccinations as a last resort didn't last very long.

I don't think the Feds want people to wait to get vaccinated for possible incentives. I think some incentives will come, but only when there's a demand problem.

 

[Lynda2475]

There already are other options to get vaccinated

There is only one option for Moderna. In case you missed it, majority of Moderna doses are boosters, so its important access is expanded beyond chemists. Boosters are needed at 6-9 month mark, which means they need to start before end of the year, for those who were jabbed in Feb and March.

Easiest and zero cost incentive is vaccine privilege. Let the vaccinated have more freedoms, whilst keeping the unvaccinated excluded from indoor dining, concerts, theatre, flights, gyms etc.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Maybe in Victoria but in NSW they can only give flu, mmr and now covid. So as an adult for most vaccines you have to go to travel clinic or GP and you can most easily get flu vax at office via workplace program.

You are deliberately misrepresenting the facts.

Perhaps for most vaccines you must visit the doctor.

That doesn't mean that most vaccines translates in to most doses given. The flu vaccine is very widely taken up and delivered through many pathways every single year, a lot of the work being done by well trained pharmacists.

Your bias has been clear for all to see for many months, however I will take a stand when you unfairly target the skills of healthcare professionals who have tertiary degrees and are professionally trained to assess healthcare requirements and deliver vaccinations.

 

[mviy]

There is only one option for Moderna.

Most people don't know which kind of flu jab they get. People just need to get whichever jab they can get.

In case you missed it, majority of Moderna doses are boosters, so its important access is expanded beyond chemists. Boosters are needed at 6-9 month mark, which means they need to start before end of the year, for those who were jabbed in Feb and March.

Where are the independent studies showing that the boosters are needed at that point? I know Pfizer and Moderna are keen to sell more doses to make more money. I think the jury is still out on when boosters will be needed.

A lot of people who had vaccines early in the rollout had AZ and for those there was a 3 month wait between doses putting the end of the year as the 6 month mark after the 2nd dose and into next year the 9 month mark. Pfizer supply was quite constrained in the early months of the rollout. Some are wondering if people with AZ might have longer lasting protection than the mRNA vaccines but we need to see what studies indicate about that. With our rollout starting after the US and UK we'll have plenty of overseas data to help inform what we do here.

In any case there are big moral concerns over what's best for society as a whole about starting boosters until there's significant excess supply to vaccinate those who are not yet vaccinated including if the health authorities decide it is appropriate children.

We are planning to use Pfizer for boosters as well, not just Moderna.

Perhaps Moderna will be expanded beyond chemists, but that's not likely to happen if it does till the end of the year or into next year.

If Moderna ends up being manufactured here that could change things too, but that's much further down the line.

Easiest and zero cost incentive is vaccine privilege. Let the vaccinated have more freedoms, whilst keeping the unvaccinated excluded from indoor dining, concerts, theatre, flights, gyms etc.

They should be doing this now for first dose and setting a date for doing it for 2nd dose if they want vaccination to happen ASAP, but we'll see if/when things change in this regard.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Any interesting question in this debate is if whether Moderna will require informed consent (like they do for Astra Zeneca)....ATAGI haven't spoken yet and if something goes awry.....

 

[Princess Fiona]

Any interesting question in this debate is if whether Moderna will require informed consent (like they do for Astra Zeneca)....ATAGI haven't spoken yet and if something goes awry.....

All vaccinations require some form of informed consent but as Moderna is an MRNA vaccine it doesn’t have VITTS as a recognized adverse reaction and therefore doesn’t require the same detailed questions about past history of specific types of clots etc.

 

[Lynda2475]

People just need to get whichever jab they can get.

I know exactly what flu jab i got.

for covid booster, you need to get the combination that is recommended not any. Australia isnt using AZ for boosters, so you need to know whether to book Moderna or Pfizer based on what you had initially.

Boosters arent just about waning protection, but also about tweaks for variants. Israel has already commenced boosters. Uk starts its booster program in September, so clearly think AZ needs a boost too. USA starts boosters in October.

We shouldnt forgo boosters because some poorer countries arent yet vaccinated, its key we stay protected, not give varaints more opportunities to take hold.

Also majority of doses given in Feb and March were Pfizer.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I don't understand part of your analysis

NSW should be about 6m jabs by end of August - well that's the NSW Premier's meagre target.

There are only 6.56m 16+ eligible in NSW (so maximum 13m jab), so notionally 7 million more jabs outstanding if NSW got to 100%.

Even if NSW authorities lift some restrictions come end of August and consequently there is some drop in demand, but I would not expect it to drop to 1 million total for both September and October, especially if Australia is swimming in Pfizer and Astra Zeneca in these months. So not even sure 6 million would be needed in November.

* Yes, need to add 12-15 Pfizer to the equation, but I'm leaving that to a school-based program.

The 19m is not my estimate. It was the figure given by Greg Hunt yesterday

The number of all vaccine doses available in Australia is scheduled to peak in November, with almost 19m doses on offer that month, comprising 10m Pfizer, 5m AstraZeneca and 4m Moderna​

​

Now NSW may manage to bring forward a number of vaccinations prior to that (The Feds seems to be using this "accounting" method for recent allocations). But if they do it would just make it less possible that State Hubs solely could deliver all the vaccinations in NSW (and Australia).

If you want to get as many Australians vaccinated as quickly as possible then you need the pharmacists, as well as the GPs, to be vaccinating. State hubs simply do not have the capacity.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

No, its been published that only pharmacies are getting Moderna, a poor decision that will limit access to mrna vaccines for many that could get it via a hub, which has been the most efficient

Why would state hubs in NSW (as usual you forget about the rest of Australia) need to offer both Moderna and Pfizer?

A wide distribution network increases access to mRNA to more people. Your proposal limits access to mRNA vaccines.

And it would also greatly slow the vaccination program resulting in unnecessary deaths and severe illnesses.

and popular channel for mrna to date.

Popular implies choice. Outside of the Commonwealth distribution until recently state run hubs had a monopoly on Pfizer.

Then, we will all need boosters in 6 months,

They have not actually announced the program for boosters yet. The fact that the current plan is only for the rollout of Doses 1 and 2.

pharamcies will not be able to accomdate everyone,

Thy don't have to, and are not planned to.

The rollout plan for doses 1 & 2 pharmacies are not to cater for everyone. Is a multi-channel distribution really that difficult to understand?

• mRNA - You can book into a State Hub, GP Channel OR pharmac_
• AZ - You can book into a State Hub (well at least in Victoria you can), GP Channel OR pharmac_

People can choose what suits them best. But they do not need to have a choice of Pfizer or Moderna at each facility where mRNA is to be offered.

Those that are too fussy however have a greater risk of death or severe illness if they need to wait for their vaccine of choice.

and frankly id prefer needles be given by a nurse not a pharmacist.

Simples. You just choose a pharmac_ where it is a nurse doing the injecting. ie Chemist Warehouse where I have had my flu vaccinations for years and where every time it has been given by a nurse.

Not sure why a suitability trained pharmacist is not to be trusted to do a simple injection though.

Hubs and workplace programs will be needed for boosters,

Eventually State Run Hubs will disappear.

CV19 is most likely going to be endemic and the CV annual program most probably will be handled pretty much like the annual flu shots are. with the same multi-channel approach. There is also already discussion that an annual combine flu and covid vaccine may be given.

State Vaccination Hubs will go the way of the Dodo. We as a society are not going to keep tying up our exhibition buildings, showgrounds etc as permanent vaccination facilife resumes being more normal the buildings will revert to their original uses.

Pharmacies dont exclusively give any other vaccinations,

Again the Dose1/2 Rollout is not just at pharmacies. It is just one channel amongst many.

so shouodnt be the only way to get moderna.

Why? If people have access to either Pfizer OR Moderna that is all that matters. Current rollout is for Doses 1 and 2. People do not need access to both in the rollout, they only need access to one or to AZ.

If a few individuals want to be cough about it, then they can can go out of their way to try and secure their preferred mRNA by booking in to the facility that that can get to, rather than simply the one that is most convenient to get too.

The most important thing is that we as a nation get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible.


And note that the Booster Rollout has not been announced as yet, but based on the vaccines ordered there will be booster doses of both Pfizer and Moderna, and if so it may be that unless the cold chain requirements for Pfizer improve that in the booster program it will be limited where Pfizer will be able to be used and that Moderna will be the most conveniently accessible booster for many.

 

[TonyHancock]

After extensive discussions with my associate, Sidney Balmoral James, we came up with an idea for increasing the take up of vaccinations in Australia. Many of you will be too young to remember the pals regiments of the Great War but we think a similar principle could be used.

Bring a pal for vaccination we are all in together sort of approach. Sid thinks $50 per pal brought along and vaccinated would be fair reward for this charitable endeavour. If we are really going to make it work we think vaccination centres need to be open into the early hours of the morning, located near night clubs, and shouldn't bother with minor details like ID's or whether the vaccine recipient is conscious. It is, after all, about getting the numbers up and protecting us all.

Sid guarantees he can get those numbers up with this approach and has already ordered the necessary equipment to get started. (Who knew Amazon sold coshes? I mean you do have to be creative with your searches - Premium Handheld Extendable Tool, Telescopic Pointer 3 Section Pole with Silicone Handle Grip and Non-Slip Lanyard, Fishing Equipment for Outdoor Activities)

Griselda is being a bit of a negative Nellie about it all and keeps yelling "Impressment" at Sid and I but think this has legs.

We will be looking for investors if we can get the government to commit to the $50 per pal deal. I am sure they will go for this because we are doing this at "cost".

Warning: Please ignore this post if you have humourless tendencies, have no appreciation for Galton & Simpson, Croft & Perry or Ian Le Frenais & Dick Clement, do not appreciate pathetic attempts at schoolboy humour, are offended by long words, dislike Monty Python, the Crazy Gang, Arthur Askey, and Sid Field, possess no self awareness, take yourself and your hobbies even a teensy weensy bit seriously, believe this is remotely serious, have feelings of self loathing, loathe Tony Hancock , believe sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, enjoy reality TV, have a chip on your shoulder the size of a redwood tree, mix coca cola with single malt whisky, are politically correct or enjoy trolling.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

With increased access to AZ from today in Victoria many chose to take adv who were not eligible to be vaccinated have chosen to take advantage of it.

My 25 year old daughter, who is the only unvaccinated person now in my immediate family, has booked herself in to get her AZ dose next week. She is an adult and has made her own informed decision.


In Victoria State Hubs have always been one of the channels that you could get AZ at (Each hub operates differently and some offer both vaccines, and some just one type).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1424630382239043587

And pharmacies are now an option too, as I posted earlier.

 

[Pushka]

Tomorrow's Front Page of The Australian: "Most Aussies are very keen to get on the jab" - "Only 11% of adult Australian voters say they will flatly refuse to get jabbed". The article goes on to say that if supply is maintained we should reach the 70% target in December.

The poll does indicate don't know at 3%, rather wait for Pfizer at 33% and already received one or two vaccines at 46%. So it may not cater for those that don't go back for the 2nd dose and suggests the anti-vax mud thrown against AZ is still sticking a bit and who knows what the "Don't know" will do. There is of course a margin for error with such polls as well.

Yesterday one of the clinics in SA had excess doses? of Pfizer and opened up to 18 - 39 year Olds. They were inundated. The mistake was realised and it was shut down but this week's appointments will be honoured. If there are so many supplies of AZ and people have checked with their Doctor then I don't see why the centres can't offer this as an option. If their planning was spot on then everyone vulnerable must have been completed by now. Young people seem to get it more than older people.

 

[Batterytraveller]

Young people seem to get it more than older people.

Most of the young people of my acquaintance seem to be rushing to get AZ where they can. I think all of the 20 somethings in my company have got jabbed one way or another. (They are mainly in Sydney and Brisbane)

 

[jb747]

Sadly, I know too many people who have all sorts of excuses for not getting vaccinated. They aren’t going to respond to any sort of carrot, so the only way I see of moving them is to enforce restrictions on those who refuse to be vaccinated. Notice, the word “refuse”, not “cannot be for real medical reasons”. As I live on a state border, perhaps progressive introduction of a requirement to be vaccinated to be allowed to cross the border. Ultimately, exclusion from just about everything. That would be their choice.

 

[Pushka]

Sadly, I know too many people who have all sorts of excuses for not getting vaccinated. They aren’t going to respond to any sort of carrot, so the only way I see of moving them is to enforce restrictions on those who refuse to be vaccinated. Notice, the word “refuse”, not “cannot be for real medical reasons”. As I live on a state border, perhaps progressive introduction of a requirement to be vaccinated to be allowed to cross the border. Ultimately, exclusion from just about everything. That would be their choice.

Restrictions? Or benefits for those who have been vaccinated. Those benefits including things we (used to) take for granted.

Will be an interesting business move if management want to protect their staff and only want vaccinated people as customers.

 

[drron]

After extensive discussions with my associate, Sidney Balmoral James, we came up with an idea for increasing the take up of vaccinations in Australia. Many of you will be too young to remember the pals regiments of the Great War but we think a similar principle could be used.

Bring a pal for vaccination we are all in together sort of approach. Sid thinks $50 per pal brought along and vaccinated would be fair reward for this charitable endeavour. If we are really going to make it work we think vaccination centres need to be open into the early hours of the morning, located near night clubs, and shouldn't bother with minor details like ID's or whether the vaccine recipient is conscious. It is, after all, about getting the numbers up and protecting us all.

Sid guarantees he can get those numbers up with this approach and has already ordered the necessary equipment to get started. (Who knew Amazon sold coshes? I mean you do have to be creative with your searches - Premium Handheld Extendable Tool, Telescopic Pointer 3 Section Pole with Silicone Handle Grip and Non-Slip Lanyard, Fishing Equipment for Outdoor Activities)

Griselda is being a bit of a negative Nellie about it all and keeps yelling "Impressment" at Sid and I but think this has legs.

We will be looking for investors if we can get the government to commit to the $50 per pal deal. I am sure they will go for this because we are doing this at "cost".

Warning: Please ignore this post if you have humourless tendencies, have no appreciation for Galton & Simpson, Croft & Perry or Ian Le Frenais & Dick Clement, do not appreciate pathetic attempts at schoolboy humour, are offended by long words, dislike Monty Python, the Crazy Gang, Arthur Askey, and Sid Field, possess no self awareness, take yourself and your hobbies even a teensy weensy bit seriously, believe this is remotely serious, have feelings of self loathing, loathe Tony Hancock , believe sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, enjoy reality TV, have a chip on your shoulder the size of a redwood tree, mix coca cola with single malt whisky, are politically correct or enjoy trolling.

I would prefer your sidekick to be the much more refined Professor James Edwards who didn't believe in sparing the rod.

But a truly wonderful scheme you have to get us,I am certain, to 100% vaccinations.

 

[mviy]

Restrictions? Or benefits for those who have been vaccinated. Those benefits including things we (used to) take for granted.

Will be an interesting business move if management want to protect their staff and only want vaccinated people as customers.

That’ll come when vaccination rates are much higher. Staying open and serving say 60%+ of customers is preferable to repeat lockdowns.