The COVID-19 vaccine rollout in Australia has begun

[MEL_Traveller]

Don’t know how they are going to counter it. They keep standing up and providing statistics showing more chance of clots from the disease than the vaccine, but it doesn’t seem to be getting through. Anti Vaxxers must be gleeful.

I had a chat to a lovely 88 year old last weekend. She had a DVT some years ago and she is now too nervous to have the jab. Had seen her GP, he had explained that it wasn’t the same and she was in a very very low risk category, but she still won’t have AZ wants Pfizer.

I think it needs better communication.

The media currently reports 'another death due to clotting', followed by the incidence rate of clotting. It makes it seem like everyone who gets a clot will die.

They need to explain that effective treatments are available.

 

[mviy]

A problem is that the media makes money with sensationalist headlines making things out to be more dramatic and a bigger deal than what they really are, so clearing up misinformation can take a concerted effort.

 

[jakeseven7]

A problem is that the media makes money with sensationalist headlines making things out to be more dramatic and a bigger deal than what they really are, so clearing up misinformation can take a concerted effort.

The media don’t seem to realise that in a coughpy economy decimated by border closures, restrictions etc if the vaccine rates don’t start soaring, they won’t have advertisers paying for spots on their cruddy networks/papers/sites.

 

[OZDUCK]

Still, a faster rollout of vaccinations is still not going to prevent disaster if other measures are not enforced. Canada has given 22% of its population a first dose but some provinces are in a crisis condition. To quote the article below - "Last week, for the first time since the pandemic began, Canada registered more cases per million than the US."

Covid: Canada sounds the alarm as cases overtake US

 

[ethernet]

Essentially once you get further in the rollout when all those desperate to get vaccinated have had the jab to try to get the remaining holdouts to take the jab to get up to herd immunity some kind of encouragement is needed. The incentives in Israel may/may not be appropriate here, but we could also put an Aussie slant on things e.g. have a free BBQ at mass vaccination clinics.

The most effective response, is obviously a 0.25 medicare surcharge increase on those who missed their shot window (exceptions apply) and or a rebate decrease.

 

[ethernet]

The takehome message from the below is women below 30 esp on contraception is higher. People exposed to Heparin who had no reaction - probably are good to go. People mostly Euro, with fibrous skin tags, porcelain skin etc,growths bzzz more risk. Obese people more risk. Awaiting 2nd source to confirm if Asian bloodstock, is generally not a problem for AZ. We do not know how quickly the woman who died - how fast she got lgG immunoglobulins in .au. I do not trust Tas and NT health system were there an AZ complication.So far, however, no cases of thrombocytopenia with the Russian vaccine Sputnik V or the Chinese vector vaccine CanSino have been reported.
Advice should also include Pifzer also has had clotting issues. And if you book in, without a risk assesment in .au, they will insist AZ is your only option, even in light of adverse
indications.(Need a stent, previous heart surgery) , BMI 39, not 40 etc. Apparently GP's are NOT trusted to make the best outcome call. I will hold my tongue on the Catholic opinion for AZ, and rejoice the Torah where saving life beats normal religious 'rules'.

I suppose adding diabetics for Pfizer is considered just too expensive.

The AstraZeneca COVID-19 Vaccine And Risk of Blood Clots: What You Need to Know

Vaccines are amazing, life-saving innovations, and the COVID-19 vaccines are no different.

www.sciencealert.com

https://www.dw.com/en/astrazeneca-german-team-discovers-

thrombosis-trigger/a-56925550

Fact check: How effective is the Sputnik V vaccine? – DW – 04/15/2021

Russia's COVID-19 vaccine, Sputnik V, has been approved for use in dozens of countries, and it's also under review by the European Medicines Agency. But the vaccine remains controversial.

www.dw.com

German supermarket offers bonus to vaccinated workers – DW – 04/15/2021

For months, employers in the US have used cash rewards to entice workers to get vaccinated against COVID-19. Now the trend has come to Germany, bringing legal and ethical questions with it.

www.dw.com

Embolic and thrombotic events after COVID-19 vaccination - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Platelet factor 4 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[stryker]

in a coughpy economy.....

Yes, but that's a little relative though, isn't it?

Just ask any other country....

 

[Austman]

When I had my first AZ jab the other day, the staff were keen to point out the relative risks compared to other usual activities.

I will perhaps will be criticised but life in Australia, if you travel in a road vehicle or walk on a street, can be more risky due to traffic than a COVID-19 jab:

Safety Statistics

Road Safety Statistics

www.bitre.gov.au

The rate of annual deaths per 100,000 population stands at 4.4
The annual rate of admission to hospital per 100,000 population was 156.5

 

[ethernet]

When I had my first AZ jab the other day, the staff were keen to point out the relative risks compared to other usual activities.

I will perhaps will be criticised but life in Australia, if you travel in a road vehicle or walk on a street, can be more risky due to traffic than a COVID-19 jab:

Safety Statistics

Road Safety Statistics

www.bitre.gov.au

The rate of annual deaths per 100,000 population stands at 4.4
The annual rate of admission to hospital per 100,000 population was 156.5

People are dumb. Relative risk, vs not making a decision is the instinctive call for the bogan set. The states have double crossed Morrison, and have NOT agreed to self quarantine, meaning international air travel is further delayed. While borders are closed and that closure extended, the commoners will dilly dally. Never mind the British strain being a bushfire certainty going forward, as secret efforts to import low paid workers continue. Hopefully there will be no more free money for states holding their borders. On the plus side, if there is an October election, vaccination votes will be down the toilet.

 

[RAM]

When I had my first AZ jab the other day, the staff were keen to point out the relative risks compared to other usual activities.

I will perhaps will be criticised but life in Australia, if you travel in a road vehicle or walk on a street, can be more risky due to traffic than a COVID-19 jab:

Safety Statistics

Road Safety Statistics

www.bitre.gov.au

The rate of annual deaths per 100,000 population stands at 4.4
The annual rate of admission to hospital per 100,000 population was 156.5

Comparing annual statistics with those covering 4 weeks of vaccinations using AstraZeneca, or on a weighted avg basis less than 2 weeks worth - is misleading & inaccurate. Like with like would multiply the figure by 26x to convert it to annual (simple not geometric basis). Equally there have not been 1 million doses of AZ injected in Australia, & the weighted average figure (to cover the up to 20 days after injection risk period) is perhaps between 100,000 to 200,000 doses at most. So 78 cases = 3 x 26 (found so far) over 200,000 injections (max figure) corresponds to 390 per million for AZ for one serious side effect.

Perhaps this is the analysis that the 'medical experts' saw & made the decision to recommend AZ is NOT used for under 50s in Australia?

Comparing apples with oranges is not being transparent such as mentioning/comparing the total resulting all types of blood clots (some due to other medications) that occur vs this very specific instance with such a severe likely outcome. Other illnesses can also be causing these blood clots cases as well but that goes unmentioned.

Just as various experts, doctors & professors produced decades of purchased 'facts' about cigarettes not causing cancer, or asbestos not being a problem - it pays to have some healthy questioning.

Some of the worst examples (not including the naz_ attrocities) are perhaps the hundreds of doctors, nurses & US Health bureaucrats who lied for over 40 years to the Afro-Americans in Tuskegee., or perhaps more recently in the New Zealand study of women with untreated carcinoma, withheld treatment, for varying lengths of time, from more than 100 women with CIS and microinvasive cancer of the cervix, cough, and cough.

Yet today there are too many who will justify such behaviour.

The Rationalization of Unethical Research: Revisionist ...​

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › articles › PMC4568718

by C Paul · 2015 · Cited by 47 — Two studies, widely condemned in the 1970s and 1980s—the Tuskegee study of men with untreated syphilis and the New Zealand study of women with ...
________________________________________________

Just wish these could be dismissed as conspiracy theories instead of actual attrocities committed by members of the health fraternity.

I've heard too many senior Drs laughing over what seemed to be many surgeons' throwaway line, "It's great that we get to bury our mistakes." One of those, I witnessed, is mentioned in the above article.

Which may be what causes me to dig into claims that often do not stand up to detailed scrutiny.

 

[clifford]

if there is an October election

There won't be, and people aren't dumb (by definition)...

 

[Austman]

Comparing annual statistics with those covering 4 weeks of vaccinations using AstraZeneca, or on a weighted avg basis less than 2 weeks worth - is misleading & inaccurate

Yes, but the vaccine has been used all this year elsewhere. With huge numbers vaccinated.

I suspect the staff were comparing the risk of "usual activities" based on those statistics.

 

[trevella]

Comparing annual statistics with those covering 4 weeks of vaccinations using AstraZeneca, or on a weighted avg basis less than 2 weeks worth - is misleading & inaccurate. Like with like would multiply the figure by 26x to convert it to annual (simple not geometric basis). Equally there have not been 1 million doses of AZ injected in Australia, & the weighted average figure (to cover the up to 20 days after injection risk period) is perhaps between 100,000 to 200,000 doses at most. So 78 cases = 3 x 26 (found so far) over 200,000 injections (max figure) corresponds to 390 per million for AZ for one serious side effect.

Perhaps this is the analysis that the 'medical experts' saw & made the decision to recommend AZ is NOT used for under 50s in Australia?

Perhaps not, given that your ‘analysis’ is completely demented to put it kindly.

 

[oz_mark]

People are dumb. Relative risk, vs not making a decision is the instinctive call for the bogan set. The states have double crossed Morrison, and have NOT agreed to self quarantine, meaning international air travel is further delayed. While borders are closed and that closure extended, the commoners will dilly dally. Never mind the British strain being a bushfire certainty going forward, as secret efforts to import low paid workers continue. Hopefully there will be no more free money for states holding their borders. On the plus side, if there is an October election, vaccination votes will be down the toilet.

It's tough to see how the majority are going to get back to accepting a non - zero risk. The states (with some exceptions) have whipped their populations into thinking one case is too many. One side effect of a vaccine is too many, and so on.

At least the feds had a plan - the states seem to think they can just sit around with borders shut forever.

Really hard to see how we get out of this.

 

[ethernet]

Comparing annual statistics with those covering 4 weeks of vaccinations using AstraZeneca, or on a weighted avg basis less than 2 weeks worth - is misleading & inaccurate. Like with like would multiply the figure by 26x to convert it to annual (simple not geometric basis). Equally there have not been 1 million doses of AZ injected in Australia, & the weighted average figure (to cover the up to 20 days after injection risk period) is perhaps between 100,000 to 200,000 doses at most. So 78 cases = 3 x 26 (found so far) over 200,000 injections (max figure) corresponds to 390 per million for AZ for one serious side effect.

Perhaps this is the analysis that the 'medical experts' saw & made the decision to recommend AZ is NOT used for under 50s in Australia?

Comparing apples with oranges is not being transparent such as mentioning/comparing the total resulting all types of blood clots (some due to other medications) that occur vs this very specific instance with such a severe likely outcome. Other illnesses can also be causing these blood clots cases as well but that goes unmentioned.

Just as various experts, doctors & professors produced decades of purchased 'facts' about cigarettes not causing cancer, or asbestos not being a problem - it pays to have some healthy questioning.

Some of the worst examples (not including the naz_ attrocities) are perhaps the hundreds of doctors, nurses & US Health bureaucrats who lied for over 40 years to the Afro-Americans in Tuskegee., or perhaps more recently in the New Zealand study of women with untreated carcinoma, withheld treatment, for varying lengths of time, from more than 100 women with CIS and microinvasive cancer of the cervix, cough, and cough.

Yet today there are too many who will justify such behaviour.

The Rationalization of Unethical Research: Revisionist ...​

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › articles › PMC4568718

by C Paul · 2015 · Cited by 47 — Two studies, widely condemned in the 1970s and 1980s—the Tuskegee study of men with untreated syphilis and the New Zealand study of women with ...
________________________________________________

Just wish these could be dismissed as conspiracy theories instead of actual attrocities committed by members of the health fraternity.

I've heard too many senior Drs laughing over what seemed to be many surgeons' throwaway line, "It's great that we get to bury our mistakes." One of those, I witnessed, is mentioned in the above article.

Which may be what causes me to dig into claims that often do not stand up to detailed scrutiny.

I add the withholding of Nuclear bomb test outcomes/records for Japan, the DU middle east related cancers, oh agent Orange and Agent Purple, aircraft tank cleaners, Lack of mental health facilities etc. The medical professionals I know talk about helping people on their journeys, because poor patient outcomes means an increase in medical insurance premiums and legal hassles, so turn away higher risk candidates who will lower their outcome scores. And older people who go under the knife/anesthetic face real risks relative to a vaccine.

 

[tgh]

an increase in medical insurance premiums and legal hassles, so turn away higher risk candidates who will lower their outcome scores

If true, these words are extremely disappointing.. has au also become supplicant to the might without right ..of the US system ?

 

[Austman]

It's tough to see how the majority are going to get back to accepting a non - zero risk

I agree, and yet for exposure to traffic (a usual and for most an unavoidable activity):

The rate of annual deaths per 100,000 population stands at 4.4
The annual rate of admission to hospital per 100,000 population was 156.5

Reduce it to just 2 weeks average if you like ... It's still way more risk than a COVID-19 jab based on any vaccination statistics, from anywhere, so far ...

 

[ethernet]

It's tough to see how the majority are going to get back to accepting a non - zero risk. The states (with some exceptions) have whipped their populations into thinking one case is too many. One side effect of a vaccine is too many, and so on.

At least the feds had a plan - the states seem to think they can just sit around with borders shut forever.

Really hard to see how we get out of this.

It is regrettable the the Dilbert factor of AZ is in the forefront of many minds. Verbal Jujitsu is required to quell public misunderstandings now that something bad has taken hold.

Carrot and Stick. No overseas travel for those who did not take the jab, plus extended quarantine if their application is successful (if un-vaccinated).
Home Quarantine for those who went with the plan.

Pfizer chief says third dose may be needed in 6 months and yearly booster likely

Downing Street said on Monday that the Pfizer coronavirus jab is 'safe and effective' against a South African mutation but a booster may be needed six months after a second jab

www.mirror.co.uk

Maybe Cwth can say those wanting boosters have to pay, as in not free if they break continuity
Cwth imposes foreign worker quotas on States who do not fall into line. Or add a stiff employer visa tax where the more urgent, the more you pay. Lots of ways to muddy these outcomes, and stick it to the states for poor planning and failure to sustain the pipeline. Plenty of wriggle room in forward estimates and GST pool redistribution's. Failing that, tax reforms that take the steam out of housing speculation against a whole of .au average.

 

[RAM]

I hadn't been following NZ. Is there a reason why their rollout is so slow?

Yes it has been slow, but not as the mis-quoting of my earlier post (that specified exactly why) by another AFFer would seem to imply - the NZ rate is intentional & is progressing quite close to as set-out (95% of projected original target). Whether they continue to meet their targets of a consistent incremental ramp remains to be seen - but so far very close to A+.

One key issue had been with one particular security company for one of the Auckland MIQ hotels with its staff either refusing outright to be vaccinated or missing multiple on-site appointments. In a related issue - the security company had not been conducting the mandatory regular staff testing it was discovered last week following up on the latest security guard infection.

NZ publishes a chart showing their rollout progress & explaining when they are ahead (yes has happened a number of times) & behind (also happening).


NZ is due to receive all doses of Pfizer by the end of September. For Australia it is the end of December as the Federal Govt only contacted Pfizer after announcing that AZ would not be the recommended vaccine for under 50s.

NZ, on the other hand, contacted Pfizer as soon as the issues with AZ & blood clots surfaced. They signed a contract for enough additional Pfizer to vaccinate NZ roughly a month before the Federal Govt contacted Pfizer - hence their end of Sept vs Australia's end of Dec,

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Politically, the approach taken by Morrison has been quite different to that adopted by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins.
The NZ Government has thus far declined to set vaccination targets, instead making forecasts of how much they expect to administer and then measuring performance against that (they are currently running at about 95 per cent on that metric).

Compare this in Australia with fake claims on supply issues which have nothing to do with all Priority 1A failures. The Week 1 target was the nearest miss for the Australian rollout at 50% - achieved 30,000 of the 60,000 target (thanks mainly to the State Health Depts not the Fed Govt contractors).

For example, on Feb 16th Greg Hunt stated that (using Pfizer) all Aged & Disability Care would be vaccinated by Week 6.

As of end of week 7 the actual figure was just 35% who'd received their 1st dose. Pfizer on Thursday or Friday (April 16th) 'insisted' that the Federal Govt publicly state that there had been zero supply issues with receipt of Pfizer doses contracted.

Not quite as embarrassing as last August when AZ released a statement contradicting the Fed Govt claim of having signed a contract for doses (the first contract of any vaccine doses actually signed some weeks later, and was with AZ).

From my earlier post:

Phase 1 - CV facing Border & Managed Quarantine workers (of all types - medical, police, army, hotel staff, security staff etc) - started Feb 19th with 25 DoH staff injecting each other under supervision for training & they then went on to train over another 800 in the next two weeks meanwhile going to workplaces for border & MQ workers to do on-site vaccinations.

Phase 2 - all household contacts, close family of phase 1 (due to start around March 13th (I think it was), started earlier on March 9th. Established mass sites in area(s) where most of families/household contacts living (predominently South Auckland close to Mangere Airport).

Phase 3 - Rest of Border & health & emergency services etc staff....

Issues they've faced - less than 1% refusals but of those (last declared at 31 I think) worked for one firm providing security at one MQ hotel. Ardern, when alerted, provided an ultimatum. Not seen any update since then.

Good article covering NZ's roll out, approach & issues including a fully vaccinated MQ person catching CV & transmitting it last month.

Vaccination alone will not provide full protection. When borders open, NZ will still be managing COVID-19

Even with the highest possible rates of vaccination, New Zealand will need to keep up public health measures, or consider letting go of the concept of elimination and focus instead on disease control.

theconversation.com

 

[sjk]

I have the luxury of watching Australia's rollout unfold from a distance, but I also have a vested interested due to my son's (sport) touring requirements.

Comparing annual statistics with those covering 4 weeks of vaccinations using AstraZeneca, or on a weighted avg basis less than 2 weeks worth - is misleading & inaccurate. Like with like would multiply the figure by 26x to convert it to annual (simple not geometric basis). Equally there have not been 1 million doses of AZ injected in Australia, & the weighted average figure (to cover the up to 20 days after injection risk period) is perhaps between 100,000 to 200,000 doses at most. So 78 cases = 3 x 26 (found so far) over 200,000 injections (max figure) corresponds to 390 per million for AZ for one serious side effect.

This is just so patently dumb I have to wonder what your agenda might be.

Surely if you want to compare annual statistics drawn from a long period (good sample) encompassing various conditions with 4 weeks' (italics yours; also dumb) worth of data or two weeks (even dumber) or whatever, it would make more sense to divide the annual statistics rather than multiplying the more limited ones?

This sort of disinformation is an utter disgrace and may end up killing people.