The Dark side of Japan Tourism.

[aspro2]

I don't think calls to boycott Japan, references to wartime, history or DNA are at all constructive here. There are many, many popular tourist destinations where you absolutely do not want to come into contact with the justice system, whether due to systemic issues, minority rights, corruption, religion or other things (edit: including differences in expectations). I think it does a disservice to the experience of @drron and the warning to be heeded from it to make it (edit: a prolonged unnuanced commentary) about one country.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Maybe but go for the embarrassment aspect. No traveler should be subjected to this sort of treatment when they haven't actually willfully murdered someone. It is like a Kafka novel.

There are many countries where an interaction with the law or police will not enhance the travel experience, but, most never have that experience. Doesn’t call for a boycott of a specific country unless you boycott them all and stay home.

 

[muppet]

I don't think calls to boycott Japan, references to wartime, history or DNA are at all constructive here. There are many, many popular tourist destinations where you absolutely do not want to come into contact with the justice system, whether due to systemic issues, minority rights, corruption, religion or other things (edit: including differences in expectations). I think it does a disservice to the experience of @drron and the warning to be heeded from it to make it (edit: a prolonged unnuanced commentary) about one country.

Agreed, but most of us would have thought Japan had a justice system similar to the West not the Middle East. 99% conviction rate would be pretty clear evidence that justice is in name only in Japan.

 

[drron]

Drron, a sobering tale and something we often don't think about if driving in other countries. The title is very apt - it is a side of being a tourist that we (well me to be honest as I can't speak for others) are not aware of. Regardless of what the law is, the whole experience would have been distressing at the very least. It makes no difference if Japanese would be treated similarly (and there are views on that expressed by others here), the issue was your experience and it should stand as a warning to others.

PS hope the butcher birds return.

Funny you should say that as immediately after reading your post I took the coffee cups out to the kitchen amd put them in the dishwasher. As I looked up a butcher bird came and sat on a patio chair looking in at me. Not one of the old Flock but the grey butcher bird who has taken up residence just outside our Fence.

 

[Sheepbopee]

I, admittedly just signed up to AFF to see if I would have some luck with lounge invite giveaways. Attracted by the title, I proceeded to scroll through the whole post, holding my breath throughout the detention. I shed a tear when I saw DrRon and MrsRon's reunion and was absolutely gobsmacked by the whole ordeal. I am glad it all worked out in the end, yet I was left disgusted by the Japanese justice system and the lack of basic human rights.
I'm a little late to the party now. I hope you're home safe now, @drron and @mrs.dr.ron. It’ll take a lot of time to process the whole experience and let it sink in. Take care.

 

[robbo135]

A very unfortunate experience and a reminder that when travelling, we are subject to the laws, regulations and customs of the host country.

Calls to boycott Japan are an individual choice, however if you do so based on principle, you will be boycotting every single country (Australia included) as every country has it's dark side when it comes to human rights and the treatment of certain groups, nationalities and people.

As noted in a few posts above, references to war time Japan is neither helpful or relevant to this discussion.

 

[Quickstatus]

Boycotting while understandable on one level is never a solution.
There would be no tourism and the world would not be a smaller place as every country in the world would have something that would be unacceptable to travellers.
Note that @drron and @mrs.dr.ron have not suggested people boycott Japan, they are merely saying that they wont be returning, and I'm empathetic of that sentiment and can see why it can no longer be a destination for them.

Many people also suggested boycotting Bali after the executions. That didnt work.
Its not the Japanese people or Japan
Its only one system within that people rarely have to interact with - if ever. The Rons managed 100 visits with no problems.

I would point to history as a teacher. Japan transformed itself after WW2 from being an international pariah to a first world democratic country with a prominent place in the international community within one generation. All that was achieved without boycotting Japan - indeed the opposite.

But don't get me started on the Whaling issue......

 

[Quickstatus]

I, admittedly just signed up to AFF

Welcome @Sheepbopee
Would you like to introduce yourself here?:
New Member Introductions

 

[prozac]

I, admittedly just signed up to AFF to see if I would have some luck with lounge invite giveaways. Attracted by the title, I proceeded to scroll through the whole post, holding my breath throughout the detention. I shed a tear when I saw DrRon and MrsRon's reunion and was absolutely gobsmacked by the whole ordeal. I am glad it all worked out in the end, yet I was left disgusted by the Japanese justice system and the lack of basic human rights.
I'm a little late to the party now. I hope you're home safe now, @drron and @mrs.dr.ron. It’ll take a lot of time to process the whole experience and let it sink in. Take care.

...and welcome to AFF @Sheepbopee

 

[RooFlyer]

Welcome to AFF @Sheepbopee .
_______

it’s been discussed before here that there is a moral dilemma about visiting many countries around the world. If there is a despotic government do you not go there or do you go there to Hopefully be in touch with the people, learn about them and maybe bring a bit of economic growth to them?

When I visited Iran, that was my attitude and I’m very glad I went but with changing things there again now I wouldn’t go back. Same with Russia of course.

I remain comfortable in Africa and in Asia.

I recently did a self driven tour around Hokkaido, my first trip in Japan out of Tokyo and I greatly enjoyed it and I was planning to go back, but now I will not. As a solo traveller if what happened to DrRon happened to me, I will just disappear from trace. I'm not sure which other liberal democracies that would occur in.

 

[prozac]

Welcome to AFF @Sheepbopee .
_______

it’s been discussed before here that there is a moral dilemma about visiting many countries around the world. If there is a despotic government do you not go there or do you go there to Hopefully be in touch with the people, learn about them and maybe bring a bit of economic growth to them?

When I visited Iran, that was my attitude and I’m very glad I went but with changing things there again now I wouldn’t go back. Same with Russia of course.

I remain comfortable in Africa and in Asia.

I recently did a self driven tour around Hokkaido, my first trip in Japan out of Tokyo and I greatly enjoyed it and I was planning to go back, but now I will not. As a solo traveller if what happened to DrRon happened to me, I will just disappear from trace. I'm not sure which other liberal democracies that would occur in.

I have not mentioned the war nor DNA as suggested above. My point was as a collective we have the numbers to possibly embarrass the tourist authority of Japan. Not that the Japanese would be too worried about tourist numbers from what I read, but tourists from a preferred country such as Australia might make a difference to treatment of foreigners.

 

[Quickstatus]

we have the numbers

If they cant sustain a Bali boycott over the executions, I dare say a Japan boycott is not going to get off the ground.

 

[TheRealTMA]

I have not mentioned the war nor DNA as suggested above. My point was as a collective we have the numbers to possibly embarrass the tourist authority of Japan. Not that the Japanese would be too worried about tourist numbers from what I read, but tourists from a preferred country such as Australia might make a difference to treatment of foreigners.

May as well ban eating sushi in Australia then?

 

[UP4014]

Agreed, but most of us would have thought Japan had a justice system similar to the West not the Middle East. 99% conviction rate would be pretty clear evidence that justice is in name only in Japan.

And most us would be wrong.

 

[UP4014]

A very unfortunate experience and a reminder that when travelling, we are subject to the laws, regulations and customs of the host country.

Calls to boycott Japan are an individual choice, however if you do so based on principle, you will be boycotting every single country (Australia included) as every country has it's dark side when it comes to human rights and the treatment of certain groups, nationalities and people.

As noted in a few posts above, references to war time Japan is neither helpful or relevant to this discussion.

Generalisations aren’t helpful either, and while plenty of places have a dark side in the past many have moved on and trying for the continuous improvement and progressive approach and many who are not. I don’t travel to some places on principal like if they stone people to death.

For the record, I still have family who won’t buy a Japanese car after experiences part of the family went through at the hands of the Japanese during the second disagreement. (I myself have a Japanese Ford parked in the back of the garage awaiting some TLC)

 

[Pushka]

And most us would be wrong.

Yes. And we now know that unfortunately thanks to @drron and @mrs.dr.ron. It's made me double check the arrangements I have in play for a trip to Japan next year. Esp with regards to medications.

 

[drron]

I, admittedly just signed up to AFF to see if I would have some luck with lounge invite giveaways. Attracted by the title, I proceeded to scroll through the whole post, holding my breath throughout the detention. I shed a tear when I saw DrRon and MrsRon's reunion and was absolutely gobsmacked by the whole ordeal. I am glad it all worked out in the end, yet I was left disgusted by the Japanese justice system and the lack of basic human rights.
I'm a little late to the party now. I hope you're home safe now, @drron and @mrs.dr.ron. It’ll take a lot of time to process the whole experience and let it sink in. Take care.

A warm welcome to AFF @Sheepbopee . And thanks for your thoughts. Believe me not all of AFF is like this thread and you should learn a lot and maybe get that Lounge invite.
And yes we are home and settling down.
Just to make it plain I am not calling for a boycott of Japan travel but bringing to attention about a problem I was completely unaware of. But I will take things further as The Japanese also suffer with this sort of experience. Today I became aware of a case where a disabled 85 year old who was driving with his wife and accidentally hit the accelerator instead of the brake. He was arrested at the scene an his 80+ year old wife who doesn't drive left at the scene.

 

[justinbrett]

How about we all agree to boycott Japan. Throw the combined weight of international travel experts behind a campaign.

No. I’m all for more education and this thread is a good wake up call to many regarding Japan’s judicial system.

But to call for a boycott on AFF would be very hypocritical. Many members here proudly support travelling to places like Doha or Dubai that have far worse records. Indonesia has caused many problems for Aussies, even Singapore on occasion.

I certainly will be returning to Japan, although I probably won’t be rushing to rent a car.

 

[Quickstatus]

became aware of a case where a disabled 85 year old who was driving with his wife and accidentally hit the accelerator instead of the brake.

This one?

 

[Melburnian1]

@drron , I've only been twice to Japan, not '>100 times', but you had a horrible experience. My prayer is for your wife, especially, and of course you.

It's reminded me that we cannot assume other legal systems will be the same as Australia's. (But the Oz one isn't perfect either - far from it).