The demise of Qantas international flights

[Archphoto]

Just found this... If you scroll down you can see a list of all the destinations which Qantas have ever flown to, with the places they no longer fly to in purple and listed as terminated . There are a lot more terminated routes than I thought.

Qantas destinations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hmmm, wonder how many of those (terminated) have turned into Deathstar Orange, or soon will be??

 

[Debra123purple]

I'd like to see actual Qantas flights from Adelaide to anywhere.
Sure, we have QF domestic but when it comes to international flights, Adelaide is like the long lost city of the Incas!

What about a direct flight out of Adelaide to Bali? The Virgin flights are always packed.

 

[Pushka]

What about a direct flight out of Adelaide to Bali? The Virgin flights are always packed.

Only Jetstar flies to Bali.

 

[Archphoto]

They prefer to put ADL passengers who fly to Bali on a flight via MEL; been there done that - hated *every* minute; Deathstar is *the* absolute worst when it comes to customer service - client had to pay extra for Business Class to get us on the flight - all it got us was an absolutely obnoxious checkin woman, who refused to assist us with a problem in any way.

Guess if we'd paid for Y, we would have just got an annoying staff member. If we ever need to do that route again - we'll be choosing Virgin.

 

[Pushka]

We've just come back from Bali. This time we travelled via Singapore. Way better although takes more transit time. I hate that five hour flight with Virgin that leaves around 1am after an enjoyable holiday. Just kills any benefit of a break.

 

[ssmith3104]

Melbourne to Dallas - however unless they acquire something like a 777-200ER (which they should), Qantas has nothing with adequate range. However, flying via Brisbane is within the capability of their 747-400ER's, and is an improvement on flying via Sydney; especially for Brisbane people. I already fly that route on the return flights (but with change of plane in Brisbane).

 

[Paddy55]

Melbourne to Dallas - however unless they acquire something like a 777-200ER (which they should), Qantas has nothing with adequate range. However, flying via Brisbane is within the capability of their 747-400ER's, and is an improvement on flying via Sydney; especially for Brisbane people. I already fly that route on the return flights (but with change of plane in Brisbane).

Hmmm 777s... now that's a missed opportunity :shock:

 

[Isochronous]

Melbourne to Dallas - however unless they acquire something like a 777-200ER (which they should), Qantas has nothing with adequate range. However, flying via Brisbane is within the capability of their 747-400ER's, and is an improvement on flying via Sydney; especially for Brisbane people. I already fly that route on the return flights (but with change of plane in Brisbane).

But BNE has no F Lounge!

 

[ssmith3104]

QF currently has three planes sitting on the ground every day at LAX for a long, long time. Would you like to see one of those planes (most likely the 747) continue on to somewhere from LAX? Where would it be able to get to in time to get back to LAX in time to continue on to Australia, and where, if anywhere, might actually work? MIA? YVR? It could add another international destination!

The problem with an add-on internal USA destination is a crewing issue. The crew that arrived from Australia will be out of duty hours. The crew that they send back to Australia will have to start "fresh". Therefore you would need to have a new crew to fly just to the add-on city and back, and get there in time for the aircraft to be cleaned, fuelled, re-stocked, and made ready for the night flight back to Oz. I'm guessing that the only one close enough (excluding SFO and YVR) is Denver.

Nevertheless, the add-on cities that would make most sense to me to go to would be to extend both the MEL-LAX flight + SYD-LAX flight (using multiple flight numbers on one plane, which are the same flight numbers as what they departed Australia) to go to any of DFW, ORD, or DEN, all 3 of which are AA hubs for best onward connections; and all 3 of those are better to clear Customs in than LAX.

 

[JessicaTam]

But BNE has no F Lounge!

Technically BNE does. But practically, you may be right.

I have yet to visit it so am unable to comment further.

 

[Anna]

We've just come back from Bali. This time we travelled via Singapore. Way better although takes more transit time. I hate that five hour flight with Virgin that leaves around 1am after an enjoyable holiday. Just kills any benefit of a break.

There is a VA daytime return flight DPS - ADL on a Saturday. Or there was last time I checked, which was a couple of months ago.

That probably suits the crowd who want a 7 day holiday Saturday - Saturday. Doesn't so much suit the crowd who can only get a couple of days off work at a time especially at short notice, and would much prefer a Sunday or Monday daytime return flight. Fly direct on a Wednesday or Thursday, return direct on a Sunday or Monday, both daytime flights - I'd probably book that 2-3 times a year if it existed.

 

[willjd]

I've been thinking lately about how few destinations Qantas actually still fly to internationally. In particular, I really enjoyed using the QF5/6 service to FRA. It seems as though Qantas are continuously slashing routes which it claims are unprofitable and not adding new routes, resulting in net losses for Australian travellers.

In the past 5 or so years,

• QF5/6 to FRA was axed in April
• QF81/82 ADL-SIN leg axed
• QF67/68 PER-HKG axed
• QF71/72 PER-SIN axed
• QF51/52 SIN-BOM leg (connecting with flights to/from Australia) axed
• QF25/26 AKL-LAX axed
• Flights from SIN, BKK and HKG to LHR axed
• Many flights given to Jetstar, e.g. most of the Japan flights.

You get the idea... In the meantime, there have been some changes which haven't resulted in net losses, however have not resulted in net gains either, such as:

• QF73/74 SYD-SFO replaced by QF7/8 to DFW
• QF17/18 SYD-EZE replaced with QF27/28 SYD-SCL
• Flights to LHR now fly through DXB
• All flights to AKL and WLG (NZ) are now operated by Jetconnect 737s.

This is not an exhaustive list, but you get the idea. Looking back even further, Qantas used to fly to many more destinations, such as to Rome via Bangkok, and these destinations are long gone.

What was the last international destination, other than the ones which simply cannibalised old ones (i.e. DXB, DFW and SCL) which Qantas actually added? I honestly can't think of it.

It really saddens me that Qantas no longer fly to so many destinations which it used to. It would be really nice to see them open up some new routes! Perhaps they could resume flights to FRA, or perhaps start flying to Berlin, where oneworld airline airberlin has a hub, through their new hub of DXB? Emirates don't even fly there so they could even codeshare with them and get some decent traffic! Or perhaps they could fly to DXB from more than just two Australian cities? They could even fly their from PER with an A330.

Where would you like to see Qantas fly to?

Suggestion from outside the box but....
How about something from London? e.g. New York

Reasons - Currently QF1 and QF9 from Melbourne and Sydney arrive at Heathrow at roughly 5.30am and 6.30am (depending on time of year) and sit idle for 15 / 17 hrs until QF2 and QF10 leave late at night.
Pretty sure these planes aren't cheap and to have them sat around for 15/17 hrs every day for 365 days of the year is not a great use of resources. Now New York may not be the best destination but at least it could then connect up with QF107 / QF108 for those RTW types and Business Travellers. Could even make the trip and back in a day and still be there for the night flights back to Oz.
To say the QFi isn't making money but then to have 2 expensive planes sitting around all day making $0 seems ridiculous.

 

[Mr_Orange]

But BNE has no F Lounge!

Well, apparently there is, but it's not highly spoken of by some and I haven't been in so can't confirm or deny.

 

[mannej]

To say the QFi isn't making money but then to have 2 expensive planes sitting around all day making $0 seems ridiculous.

You have to look at the complete picture - it may mean that sitting the planes on the Tarmac leads to less of a loss on actually flying them, but also provides maintenance downtime etc...
It has been discussed on here before the pros and cons

 

[markis10]

But BNE has no F Lounge!

Brisbane sure does, about the only difference between it and the J lounge is the butler service of barista coffee:

[h=2]Qantas International First[/h] Location details: Airside, Level 4
Opening hours: Daily:05:00 to last departure
Notes: Access to First Class Lounges is restricted to Emerald members or those travelling in First Class

• Business Centre
• Free Wifi
• Food and Beverages
• Showers
• Wheelchair Access
• TV

 

[ajw373]

Suggestion from outside the box but....
How about something from London? e.g. New York

Reasons - Currently QF1 and QF9 from Melbourne and Sydney arrive at Heathrow at roughly 5.30am and 6.30am (depending on time of year) and sit idle for 15 / 17 hrs until QF2 and QF10 leave late at night.
Pretty sure these planes aren't cheap and to have them sat around for 15/17 hrs every day for 365 days of the year is not a great use of resources. Now New York may not be the best destination but at least it could then connect up with QF107 / QF108 for those RTW types and Business Travellers. Could even make the trip and back in a day and still be there for the night flights back to Oz.
To say the QFi isn't making money but then to have 2 expensive planes sitting around all day making $0 seems ridiculous.

They do not sit idle 15/17 hours of the day 365 days of the year. In a 3 day cycle they sit that long, but not every day of the year. As for going to New York or anywhere else as an add on, two issues. One is lack of 'rights', the second is on a route like that a 3 party airline is not going to attract as much business as airlines that orginate in the two countries involved. Oh with LHR-JFK I don't think Qantas's OneWorld partners would be all that impressed either.

 

[Hvr]

<snip>

Nevertheless, the add-on cities that would make most sense to me to go to would be to extend both the MEL-LAX flight + SYD-LAX flight (using multiple flight numbers on one plane, which are the same flight numbers as what they departed Australia) to go to any of DFW, ORD, or DEN, all 3 of which are AA hubs for best onward connections; and all 3 of those are better to clear Customs in than LAX.

Actually it doesn't matter where the flight continues onto, as soon as you touch US soil you are required to clear customs/immigration. This can occasionally be an issue for pax continuing onto JFK on the QF flight.

 

[Mattg]

Suggestion from outside the box but....
How about something from London? e.g. New York

Reasons - Currently QF1 and QF9 from Melbourne and Sydney arrive at Heathrow at roughly 5.30am and 6.30am (depending on time of year) and sit idle for 15 / 17 hrs until QF2 and QF10 leave late at night.
Pretty sure these planes aren't cheap and to have them sat around for 15/17 hrs every day for 365 days of the year is not a great use of resources. Now New York may not be the best destination but at least it could then connect up with QF107 / QF108 for those RTW types and Business Travellers. Could even make the trip and back in a day and still be there for the night flights back to Oz.
To say the QFi isn't making money but then to have 2 expensive planes sitting around all day making $0 seems ridiculous.

Interesting comment about the A380s sitting idle for so long. Just a thought...

As it stands, an average A380 would route something like this over 6 days:
Day 1: QF1 SYD 15:50 - DXB 12:35 (+1)
Day 2: QF1 DXB 02:05 - LHR 06:35
Day 2: QF10 LHR 22:30 - DXB 08:20 (+1)
Day 3: QF10 DXB 09:50 - MEL 05:15 (+1)
Day 4: QF93 MEL 09:15 - LAX 06:35
Day 4: QF12 LAX 22:10 - SYD 06:10 (+2)
Day 6: Back to LHR (or perhaps HKG)

Of course, this could vary and the plane might take a day "off" this cycle to go to HKG and back from SYD, but this is quite a common routing.

If QF retimed it's flights, this would be possible in one day less per cycle, for example:
Day 1: QF1 SYD 21:30 - DXB 06:15 (+1)
Day 2: QF1 DXB 07:45 - LHR 12:15
Day 2: QF10 LHR 22:30 - DXB 08:20 (+1)
Day 3: QF10 DXB 09:50 - MEL 05:15 (+1)
Day 4: QF93 MEL 09:15 - LAX 06:35
Day 4: QF12 LAX 09:10 - SYD 17:10 (+1)
Day 5: Back to LHR (or HKG)

This would cut out a lot of the time the aircraft spend idle in both LHR and LAX (while still giving it sufficient time for maintenance, cleaning etc. especially in LHR where it would still spend 10 hours +. The timing of the DXB-LHR flight would also be a lot more convenient for people just wanting to fly this leg (I booked this route recently but ended up booking with Emirates at a different time because I didn't want to get a flight which leaves at 2am).

By saving a day every 6 days, QF could also fly more routes with the same number of aircraft, e.g. the HKG route, which takes a day's cycle out of SYD. QF could add another such route, e.g. they could fly an A380 SYD-SIN (and free up one of the planes which currently flies to SIN so as to add a new route, or perhaps re-open an old one) or they could even open a new route! I know that's not something QF management is familiar with, but maybe there's some hope! If each of the 12 A380s "gained" even just one day a week, that's 12 extra days available. If a trip, say, from SYD-YVR-SYD lasted 2 days (as per current time tabling), then QF could fly this route 6x weekly with A380s without needing any new aircraft!

Why not do this? Well, quite a few of the flights are timed as they are so they connect with other services. It would also take away time for maintenance etc. (although I do wonder how long the planes are just sitting there...) I'm sure there are probably a few more other reasons, but do they outweigh the benefits?

 

[moa999]

I suspect one of the main reasons is the LHR slots that QF has. Don't believe these are easily changed.

 

[ajw373]

I suspect one of the main reasons is the LHR slots that QF has. Don't believe these are easily changed.

They have 4 pairs a day (currently leasing two pairs to BA). In the past the timings of at least one, if not two matched up with a late morning arrival, lunch time departure. So whilst it may be not easy, I wouldn't say it would be difficult or impossible to change the timings. My guess is Qantas are smart enough to know when passengers want to fly and match their flights to suit. Whilst it may not match some peoples requirement they are providing a service that matches what they believe the bulk want.