The fall of first class, the rise of business and premium economy?

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Doctore1003

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Hey guys, I know this topic's been discussed here before, but I wrote a thought-piece about it and wanted to get your views and feedback.

My opinion is that, though it's a bit sad to see first class in decline, overall the future of premium travel looks bright - especially because of the large improvements in business class.

Let me know what you think and if the article could use any improvements :)

The fall of first class, the rise of business and premium economy? - The High Life
 
Good article, and I agree, J is moving into F territory, and PE is moving into J territory. I am almost betting that we will see a time when "business" is rebranded as first.
 
Yes, it's a good article, but I cannot see any value in premium economy. One won't necessarily sleep properly, or well. The seat dividers do not typically allow a passenger to sleep across two seats if the next one is devoid of another passenger.

And as for EK's boast that travellers will find '[FONT=&amp]“fully enclosed rooms with all the touches and amenities that you’d expect in hotel or a private bedroom on a luxury yacht”, [/FONT]they still won't find the features of a good railway sleeping berth with a shower and toilet right next to the berth, separated only by a door. Airlines have weight to consider much more than railways though.[FONT=&amp]



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I cannot see any value in premium economy. One won't necessarily sleep properly, or well. The seat dividers do not typically allow a passenger to sleep across two seats if the next one is devoid of another passenger.

Good point. TBH I've never tried PE but quite a few friends fly it - mostly people in their early 30s who have enough income to step up from economy but not enough for business class. They seem happy with it.

Good article, and I agree, J is moving into F territory, and PE is moving into J territory. I am almost betting that we will see a time when "business" is rebranded as first.

Yikes, I hope not. The price falls for J recently have been encouraging - I just wish they would filter through to Australia.
 
Good article, and I agree, J is moving into F territory, and PE is moving into J territory. I am almost betting that we will see a time when "business" is rebranded as first.

Don't know if J will be rebranded. Domestically there used to be First and Economy. Then Business was introduced, and subsequently First dropped. Not sure if there has been talk if rebranding it back!

PE is just filling the void in product between Economy and Business. Business has improved a lot in the 2000's and it brought a huge gap between Economy and Business. PE just slots in to fill the gap for those that want a bit extra but can't go the full way to Business. Tiem will tell what sort of product it settles on, although it seems to be tending to a Y+ rather than a J-.

The main issue with F (when you have a J as good as it is now), is that everyone wants to be there, but no-one wants to pay!
 
Agree as well a good article. It seems to be hard to keep up with the pace of change with airlines at the moment. My guess would be F will stick around but not on all carriers. I can see it remaining on a380's.
 
... The price falls for J recently have been encouraging - I just wish they would filter through to Australia.

Excellent point, and just further evidence of how in our over regulated economy Australians, sadly, are also overcharged for so many items.
 
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Business is certainly getting better, and that is certainly putting pressure on First class (i.e. price differential not worth the incremental differences, which are often subtle).

The main advantages of First over Business are better facilities (both ground and air) and, more importantly, a smaller cabin (less people). Are those worth the price difference? Debatable.

The irony is that First class many, many years ago was like Business, in that it was luxury but served to quite a few people, viz. now the largest First cabins are about 14 passengers.

If carriers choose to keep it, then on the realisation that most may not pay the real money for it (and every blogger would tell you - without being comical - that you should never pay the money for First), First may remain as a marginal improvement on Business rather than a step up. BA is a rather good example of this. LH has been trying to define the step by accepting a suppressed standard for its Business class product, which is somehow still aligned against what they believe is acceptable to the Germanic market.

But look at the current carriers who are still set on keeping First. The Middle Eastern heavyweights are at least trying to keep First flying, culminating in what might be a huge p*****g contest. Qatar is watching from the sidelines whilst pushing ahead with it's "Business as good as First" strategy. The Asian contingent in at least Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines and Garuda may be nervous in maintaining First, but they are holding out with might and main. Whatever mainland Chinese airlines seem intent on keeping First might just be relying on a home market which will allow them to keep it, because on a world stage their products are not well acclaimed.

Between the European holdouts, the US-based ones and Qantas, it may just be a matter of running whatever First they have into the ground before it disappears. Keeping it may not be any sort of commercial benefit, but rather an image based one.
 
Yes, it's a good article, but I cannot see any value in premium economy. One won't necessarily sleep properly, or well.
Poor value in premium economy especially if stuck behind a recliner.

For me cheap economy is a much better alternative.
 
if Premium was even a 50% extra cost to an economy it may be worth it for the space and extras. But seeing as it's often a lot more than double and you really won't sleep any better if at all, then it's really not worth it in cost value. IMHO PE is just too overpriced.
 
And don't forget you only earn 10% extra points on QFF for premium economy but you need 50% more QFF points to redeem premium economy awards.
 
The only time we have flown Premium Economy was Auckland/Perth with Air NZ. This was only a couple of weeks after they introduced the B787 on that route and there was a sale on and the fare was only about an 60% jump on economy. We had the bulkhead seats so no reclining problems. The food, service and seat was a huge improvement on the poor experience back in economy and well worth the price.

However, when we flew to Canada last year the PE prices on CX were extremely high for a product that doesn't seem that special - so we were forced to fly Business.:D
 
Nice article.

I've flown Premium Economy several times on Qantas as a free upgrade but don't think I would be willing to redeem points to upgrade. For me, I would rather have several cramped flights in Economy and one great flight in Business than a couple of Premium Economy flights. It's sort of an all or nothing approach. The Cathay Pacific Premium Economy redemption rates with Qantas Points to Europe are insane.
 
I still remember doing first on CX back in the early 2000's - a nice experience that even VA's "The Business" hasn't yet supplanted, but gee, its pretty close.

Business, back then, was welcome and a definite step up from Y in all the ways that matter. For the most part, J on decent airlines is now 95% of what F used to be. If they brought in PE that was like J used to be, you know, angled bed seating, I'd take it - but PE is usually just Y seating and some some barely tangible added polish. Given that Y + some sort of status already gets you there, mostly, theres generally not much that PE can offer unless the carriers actually start to treat the class seriously and provide some real and measurable benefits.
 
Only flew PE once and that was back in 2015 on a VA flight SYD-SFO-SYD. First impressions was that I had wasted my money and should have stayed in Y - then we got to go back and commandeer seats for a lie-down and realised it was slightly more spacious (only just).

That was the one and only time. It has been J (and the occasionally F upgrades) ever since.
 
I don't know whether Middle East airlines were responsible for the improvements in business class? To me pioneers are carriers like Virgin Atlantic (angled business class sort-of-beds) and then BA with full flat. Carriers like EK were much smaller then, but were offering standard recliners for a long time (and still no full flats on 777s).

CX is a good example of airlines who have been able to adapt (angled lie flats to coffins to reverse herringbone). Others have been left behind, seemingly unable to adapt... for example VS persisting with herringbone (rather than reverse), BA, QF (still offering angled lie flats on many aircraft).

Premium economy is is a sad disappointment... there may be a 'rise' in the introduction of the cabin, but the product has failed to enhance... with only a couple of outliers (TK and NZ), airlines are reluctant to offer anything more than the standard 38' pitch and minimal improvements in width. Service on QF started out well... 'business lite' in all respects, but cost cutting has really seen that decline (no champagne, no business class snack menu).
 
Of course, PE seems better as Y gets driven down by price - the 787 may be the milestone that causes the rise of PE.
Anyone who's ever actually sat in a PE seat would generally recognise the huge improvement in amenity compared to a full Y cabin - it's price point still remains the contention at times and the pitch would benefit from a bit of a stretch. Too narrow a seat is instantly a problem, but most normal excesses of human physiology won't benefit from a seat any wider than the QF PE offering.

Having just flown QF1 in PE I can assure the the bubbles still flowed, the wine still comes from J, hot snacks were available outside of mealtimes and service was very much business lite and at a price well below 50% of QF J.
 
Of course, PE seems better as Y gets driven down by price - the 787 may be the milestone that causes the rise of PE.
Anyone who's ever actually sat in a PE seat would generally recognise the huge improvement in amenity compared to a full Y cabin - it's price point still remains the contention at times and the pitch would benefit from a bit of a stretch. Too narrow a seat is instantly a problem, but most normal excesses of human physiology won't benefit from a seat any wider than the QF PE offering.

Having just flown QF1 in PE I can assure the the bubbles still flowed, the wine still comes from J, hot snacks were available outside of mealtimes and service was very much business lite and at a price well below 50% of QF J.

'bubbles' still flow - but a far cry from the champagne originally offered by QF and still offered by competitors :(

Price point - well, QF PE compared to full business class for the same price on other airlines? It's a tough sell for me.

As for seating - PE hasn't had the advancements that we've seen in business class over the same time period which is a shame. For the price QF charges, the real estate that should entitle us to they could almost provide an angled lie-flat (double or triple the price of economy should get you at least 2 times the economy seat real estate, but we don't get that).
 
Agree with most of that. But who buys PE when it's the same price as other's business class?
 
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