The great Qantas con

[Therma]

Two words: school holidays!

If you want award booking on QF in September/October you need to book far more in advance than 3 months - that's simply the way it is and has been for a long time.

So I guess Lufthansa and SQ do not have school holidays?

I have NEVER got close to my request on QF FF even at 6 months notice outside of school holidays. One time I had to get a 7 am flight MEL-ADL, 6 hours layover, stopovers in Alice and Darwin. Got to Singapore late late at night. left my passport at home so had to return. MEL-ADL leaving in half hour so was sent to ticketing to get something else. they said there were 3 other 2/3 empty flights to Adelaide and gave me a choice. They also said if I was 10 minutes earlier they could have put me onto 1/2 full 747 nonstop to Singapore leaving around 720 or whatever.

So I got given (6 months notice) lousy routing with multiple stops, inconvenient times and huge layover when there were a) better connections outside peak hours b) a 1/2 full direct flight.
I know all you QF appologists will tell me about capacity etc etc, but does it not smell a little bit of a rat? i.e. make things so difficult people give up and just use points for upgrades after paying for Y?

 

[serfty]

Hey, don't call me a QF apologist!:-| I enjoy most of the benefits WP brings but that does not mean I excuse Qantas.*

I am merely stating fact's - Qantas obviously make much revenue over school holiday periods, so they are not going to make many award seats available.

Who Mainly uses QFF point for award bookings? Oz residents. So Oz holiday schedules have a big relevance to award availability - its a basic commercial fact!

As for outside of high revenue period, I do occasionally look but in recent time can't handle the

, then not getting any points/SC's so I pay instead..

95% of my QFF point go on international upgrades so perhaps I can't really comment further.

*FWIW, with the demise of QF NZ and have been comped AirNZ *GE - I now have 10 bookings with AirNZ in the next few months that would have previously gone to QF.

 

[drron]

So I guess Lufthansa and SQ do not have school holidays?

I have NEVER got close to my request on QF FF even at 6 months notice outside of school holidays. One time I had to get a 7 am flight MEL-ADL, 6 hours layover, stopovers in Alice and Darwin. Got to Singapore late late at night. left my passport at home so had to return. MEL-ADL leaving in half hour so was sent to ticketing to get something else. they said there were 3 other 2/3 empty flights to Adelaide and gave me a choice. They also said if I was 10 minutes earlier they could have put me onto 1/2 full 747 nonstop to Singapore leaving around 720 or whatever.

So I got given (6 months notice) lousy routing with multiple stops, inconvenient times and huge layover when there were a) better connections outside peak hours b) a 1/2 full direct flight.
I know all you QF appologists will tell me about capacity etc etc, but does it not smell a little bit of a rat? i.e. make things so difficult people give up and just use points for upgrades after paying for Y?

School holidays-well in Australia they are from mid-september to mid-october.The USA and Europe have already finished their summer break,just checked and in singapore school holidays then are 4/9-14/9.So yes Serfty is right.Australians who are going to take their kids on holiday will predominantly use QF not SQ or LH.Therefore a factor that at that time of year will affect QF much more than SQ or LH.
At 6 months out is probably the worst time to try and pick up a QFF award especially on high demand sectors such as SIN.They release them at 12 months then much closer to departure.As well how to you suppose QF would know 6 months out that a plane was going to go out half full?
You forgot your passport and that is QF's problem?
In my limited experience of QFF awards in premium cabins(because I gave up on them ~7 years ago and joined AA) things are easier now.At various times I have checked for awards to NRT or BKK-virtually never available when I want them but booking in April got award for mrsdrron SYD-NRT-SYD in August.Then for myself got an award on QF2 BKK-SYD on the day I wanted booking June for November.So to me it does seem as though there is more availability of QFF awards now than there has been.Not enough for me to switch back from AA though.

 

[Therma]

School holidays-well in Australia they are from mid-september to mid-october.The USA and Europe have already finished their summer break,just checked and in singapore school holidays then are 4/9-14/9.So yes Serfty is right.Australians who are going to take their kids on holiday will predominantly use QF not SQ or LH.Therefore a factor that at that time of year will affect QF much more than SQ or LH.
At 6 months out is probably the worst time to try and pick up a QFF award especially on high demand sectors such as SIN.They release them at 12 months then much closer to departure.As well how to you suppose QF would know 6 months out that a plane was going to go out half full?
You forgot your passport and that is QF's problem?
In my limited experience of QFF awards in premium cabins(because I gave up on them ~7 years ago and joined AA) things are easier now.At various times I have checked for awards to NRT or BKK-virtually never available when I want them but booking in April got award for mrsdrron SYD-NRT-SYD in August.Then for myself got an award on QF2 BKK-SYD on the day I wanted booking June for November.So to me it does seem as though there is more availability of QFF awards now than there has been.Not enough for me to switch back from AA though.

Not Qantas's fault for me forgetting my passport, but by being late I discovered all the other flights that were available.

The QF flight that I was looking for was going out last week of August and coming back September 5. So does not coincide with Aus school holidays.

 

[serfty]

... The QF flight that I was looking for was going out last week of August and coming back September 5. So does not coincide with Aus school holidays.

I certainly do not see them
3 weeks ago I needed to book some flights 3 months in advance on points. ...

Before My intial response to your post I did a calculation based on your timeings.

3 weeks before 6th July is mid June, 3 months after that is mid-September; just as the spring school holidays start to kick in through the various states.

Add to that you were looking just over two months in advance, not three.

 

[oz_mark]

I am merely stating fact's - Qantas obviously make much revenue over school holiday periods, so they are not going to make many award seats available.

...and the ones that are made available are quickly snapped up

 

[ali62]

...and the ones that are made available are quickly snapped up

It is busy at Q atm also because it is school hols in most states now. Qld finishing first this weekend. But there is still overtime going for the staff at Q so the planes must be well booked...especially on Domestic routes. :mrgreen: And also staff only had until July to take up holidays from April - July because of the downturn...we are off on ours next week..no not flying anywhere...no seats available..joking I don't know the seating for standby staff seating but we are not flying anywhere.......too expensive..rofl x

 

[simongr]

The QF flight that I was looking for was going out last week of August and coming back September 5. So does not coincide with Aus school holidays.

Which coincides with european school holidays...

The whole issue of finding out at the last minute that a flight was empty is just simply fatuous. 3 months out QF would have expected to sell those tickets for cash not for awards. Do you think they should "sell" awards ahead of revenue tix? Do you want QF to be in business in the long run?


I tried to get J awards on SQ for a range of dates 9 months out around xmas and couldnt get any saver awards in J - does that make SQ a con as well?

 

[ali62]

Which coincides with european school holidays...

The whole issue of finding out at the last minute that a flight was empty is just simply fatuous. 3 months out QF would have expected to sell those tickets for cash not for awards. Do you think they should "sell" awards ahead of revenue tix? Do you want QF to be in business in the long run?


I tried to get J awards on SQ for a range of dates 9 months out around xmas and couldnt get any saver awards in J - does that make SQ a con as well?

I think those dates are just before the Spring Break here in Australia in Sept. Christmas is always busy at QANTAS because it is the Summer break for Schools from Mid December to End Jan each year so it would be near impossible to get your points seats I would think

 

[NM]

I think those dates are just before the Spring Break here in Australia in Sept. Christmas is always busy at QANTAS because it is the Summer break for Schools from Mid December to End Jan each year so it would be near impossible to get your points seats I would think

While school vacation periods have an impact, award availability is part of the black art of yield management, of which Qantas is one of the best exponents in the industry.

Qantas tends to allocate a number of seats on most flights/routes when they release award availability at 253 days before departure. Once those seats have been snapped up, they tend not to release any more seats until much closer to the departure date when they have a better indication of the loading.

This means that if you get in early and book before the limited number of award seats have been consumed, you have a better choice of routing. In you case, the more direct and better timed flights probably did have award seats available 11 months before departure. But they were likely snapped up quickly (being direct flights on popular routes). They may review the loadings and if light they may release more award seats in the last month before departure. So if you are looking between 11 months and 1 month out, its quite likely there are no award seats and light commercial ticket sales.

If Qantas kept releasing more award seats just because the original ones wee already "sold" and commercial ticket sales were light, they could possibly fill half the aircraft with award redemptions. If they had released 5 award seats 10 months out, they may have been gone in a few days. Then another 5 a month later and they could be gone the following day. So you could still be looking every week and still see no availability, even though they have been releasing seats.

I have managed to obtain 3 x business class awards in the middle of January for travel BNE-MEL-AKL. That is the time of year when paid business class travel is light but economy cabins tend to be full. I routed via MEL because the MEL-AKL was a 747-400 with lots of business class seats while the BNE-AKL direct flights had far fewer seats in the cabin and hence reduced possibility of finding 3 seats on the same flights. That was booked about 4 months before departure. But there was only business class available and not economy at that time of the year. So it certainly can be done during school holidays.

Also remember that QF award seats are not just available to Qantas FF members. They are available to all OneWorld members as well as some of the partner airlines such as Continental. So the pool of people seeking the award seats is very large, especially for the popular international segments. So you need to get in as soon as they are released of hope more are release in the last few weeks before travel.

Even if Qantas doubled or tripled the number of award seats they made available, there would be more demand than supply on many popular routes.

With plenty of planning, I have not had much difficulty in redeeming my FF points/miles for award seats to the destinations I wanted at the times I wanted (with a little flexibility in routing and specific dates). But it does take some planning and effort to identify options to get what I want.

 

[Therma]

Before My intial response to your post I did a calculation based on your timeings.

3 weeks before 6th July is mid June, 3 months after that is mid-September; just as the spring school holidays start to kick in through the various states.

Add to that you were looking just over two months in advance, not three.

Okio, me bad. With my 16 hour, 6-7 day weeks I may have miscalculated how many weeks before I started tried. But I do remember that it was around 2 months and 4 weeks. So I could have said 7(?) weeks back.
Basically I was looking aroun Aug 22 out and September 5 return. Coincides with european school holidays, or I am sure some other school holidays somewhere. What I am repeating ad nauseum is that I got redemption on Lufthansa via Krisflyer for my family in under 10 minutes. As simple as that.

 

[straitman]

Okio, me bad. With my 16 hour, 6-7 day weeks I may have miscalculated how many weeks before I started tried. But I do remember that it was around 2 months and 4 weeks. So I could have said 7(?) weeks back.
Basically I was looking aroun Aug 22 out and September 5 return. Coincides with european school holidays, or I am sure some other school holidays somewhere. What I am repeating ad nauseum is that I got redemption on Lufthansa via Krisflyer for my family in under 10 minutes. As simple as that.

Therma,

... and what others are repeating ad nauseum, is that QF is particularly good with their yield management compared to most other airlines and in being so they don't just throw seats out there when they will probably be able to sell them instead :!:

With a little forward planning seats are available.

 

[Therma]

Therma,

... and what others are repeating ad nauseum, is that QF is particularly good with their yield management compared to most other airlines and in being so they don't just throw seats out there when they will probably be able to sell them instead :!:

With a little forward planning seats are available.

Yield management, shmield management. I was previously told not to book too far in advance, now I am told not to book too close. For goodness sake, I fly, pay good money, get average service and at least want something in return without having a PhD in Qantasology (majoring in appologetics and puttingupwithcrapology). I do not want to go calculating QF FF's ovulating cycle for goodness sake. By the time you take out all the school holidays, seasonal holidays, national holidays, religious holidays (in both the departure point and destination), take into account seasonal variability, do some risk management and data analysis, throw in the tradewinds and amount of precipitation on the routes, enter the data into Excel and finally present it to an uncouth peasant like myself, you are probably left with 3 days a year when nobody may want to fly and you may luck out and get a flight. I have redeemed over 400,000 K with QF and have found it to be an exercise in frustration. I do not have to worry about it with NW or SQ. It is KISS principle.

 

[munitalP]

Yield management, shmield management. I was previously told not to book too far in advance, now I am told not to book too close. For goodness sake, I fly, pay good money, get average service and at least want something in return without having a PhD in Qantasology (majoring in appologetics and puttingupwithcrapology). I do not want to go calculating QF FF's ovulating cycle for goodness sake. By the time you take out all the school holidays, seasonal holidays, national holidays, religious holidays (in both the departure point and destination), take into account seasonal variability, do some risk management and data analysis, throw in the tradewinds and amount of precipitation on the routes, enter the data into Excel and finally present it to an uncouth peasant like myself, you are probably left with 3 days a year when nobody may want to fly and you may luck out and get a flight. I have redeemed over 400,000 K with QF and have found it to be an exercise in frustration. I do not have to worry about it with NW or SQ. It is KISS principle.

LOL!



Mr!

 

[anat0l]

Yield management, shmield management. I was previously told not to book too far in advance, now I am told not to book too close. For goodness sake, I fly, pay good money, get average service and at least want something in return without having a PhD in Qantasology (majoring in appologetics and puttingupwithcrapology). I do not want to go calculating QF FF's ovulating cycle for goodness sake. By the time you take out all the school holidays, seasonal holidays, national holidays, religious holidays (in both the departure point and destination), take into account seasonal variability, do some risk management and data analysis, throw in the tradewinds and amount of precipitation on the routes, enter the data into Excel and finally present it to an uncouth peasant like myself, you are probably left with 3 days a year when nobody may want to fly and you may luck out and get a flight. I have redeemed over 400,000 K with QF and have found it to be an exercise in frustration. I do not have to worry about it with NW or SQ. It is KISS principle.

It is simple:

• Keep an open diary.
• Look for multiple dates until you find something.
• The chances of bagging a set of award seats is inversely proportional to the number of seats requested in the same booking and weakly directly proportional to the quality of one's value to QF (which includes status).
• Major routes are always going to be difficult - get over it.

At 400,000 points redeemed, you can't say you haven't done too badly, considering how many big corporate credit card churners there are out there. I guess you could stop searching and leave the rest of us with better chances to garner seats. :mrgreen:

 

[straitman]

Therma,

You are of course entitled to your opinion but quite frankly I find your response offensive. :evil:

In post #36 you asked the question and people have politely and descriptively answered. If you don't want the answer then don't ask the question. If you even tried to understand how a business, let alone an airline operated you MIGHT have a chance of understanding.

Good day to you and that's it from me as far as you are concerned :!:

 

[NM]

Yield management, shmield management. I was previously told not to book too far in advance, now I am told not to book too close. For goodness sake, I fly, pay good money, get average service and at least want something in return without having a PhD in Qantasology (majoring in appologetics and puttingupwithcrapology). I do not want to go calculating QF FF's ovulating cycle for goodness sake. ...

Then I suggest you find a frequent flyer program that better meets your wants. It seem obvious that the Qantas Program is not suited to your requirements. There are other programs available if you don't like the Qantas program. If the Qantas program does not suite you then vote with your feet and use a different program. There are plenty of us here that have migrated away from Qantas to different programs (some to Velocity, some to SQ, some to UA, some to NZ, some to AA, others to EK and probably other programs as well).

 

[Therma]

Therma,

You are of course entitled to your opinion but quite frankly I find your response offensive. :evil:

In post #36 you asked the question and people have politely and descriptively answered. If you don't want the answer then don't ask the question. If you even tried to understand how a business, let alone an airline operated you MIGHT have a chance of understanding.

Good day to you and that's it from me as far as you are concerned :!:

The response was not meant to be offensive, and I am sorry if it appeared that way. It was actually meant to be lighthearted.

If I did not want the answer I would not write a question.

As far as for me not knowing how to run a business, I could choose to find that innuendo offensive as well, since I am have recently been promoted to an AP area business manager. But I do not.

 

[JohnK]

I have redeemed over 400,000 K with QF and have found it to be an exercise in frustration. I do not have to worry about it with NW or SQ. It is KISS principle.

Well said. I did not find it offensive at all. On the contrary it brought a smile to my face. Qantasology and puttingupwithcrapology could well be new additions to the next version of the Oxford dictionary.

 

[Therma]

Then I suggest you find a frequent flyer program that better meets your wants. It seem obvious that the Qantas Program is not suited to your requirements. There are other programs available if you don't like the Qantas program. If the Qantas program does not suite you then vote with your feet and use a different program. There are plenty of us here that have migrated away from Qantas to different programs (some to Velocity, some to SQ, some to UA, some to NZ, some to AA, others to EK and probably other programs as well).

I have always assumed that the basic premise of a frequent flyer program is being able to redeem the hard earnt points. 90% of my QF points have always come from actualy flying, in Y, without status bonuses.

I appreaciate all the the answers, please do not think I don't. You are right, they do not give the answers that I seek. I guess I do not fly on QF enough to worry about it too much, and as long as I have the Silver for the extral luggage I will use up the points for upgrades and switch to AA. I wonder if my card from 1992 (last time I saw it and used it) is still around somewhere