The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story?

[Justinf]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

Flew from MEL to DRW on Wednesday morning, the 1.45am flight.
Got moved to 'PE' shortly after takeoff, but the seat weren't really PE. They had more legroom, but were just normal seats. Still, I was able to buckle up and lie down and sleep for most of the 4½-hour trip on the three seats with the armrests lifted. It must have abeen a rogue aircraft. No IFE onboard.
Flight back was on a 738 with a 'proper' PE section and Live to Air, but no luck in being moved this time.
I think it's now gotten to the stage where they should just scrap PE, too.

 

[Justinf]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

I had a chat with a CS the other day, and she mentioned a few interesting things -As posted elsewhere, crew have been empowered to move Gold & Silver guests once onboard - if they feel they will benefit from being re-seated in P.E. (sans-ancillaries) AND there are NO paying guest(s) travelling in P.E. (Plus presumably if they also have the time and remember to do it.) She seemed genuinely excited to be able to acknowledge and reward her best customers in this way.

She mentioned something about a new interim solution for 737s in row 1 - where 1B & 1E would be permanently blocked from allocation, even on the rogue planes. I wasn't sure if this meant that some sort of retrofitting was going to happen, or merely enable the deployment of the in-arm-rest tray table across the blue middle seats. (But they do seem to be listening, and responding to the issue in "some way".)

Of course, this would only be of benefit if they don't oversell more than 4 P.E. seats on a sector.

I did mention to her that I thought it was great that DJ was focussed on giving us more, especially while the QF CEO and Board seem intent on taking things away*.

* e.g. space in domestic business on A330s, side salads, AccessAnytime, checked luggage allowance...

Only just saw this. Yes, I flew on a rogue aircraft to Darwin on Wednesday and was told I could move to the 'PE' section, but not in row 1. Just rows 2 or 3.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

How to complain to Virgin??

I recently have had cause to make a complaint to DJ. I was informed of a telephone number to phone by a FA, which I did, only to be told I couldn't speak to guest relations by phone.......I had to use the feedback form on the "Contact Us" page of the web site.

A bit miffed, I did this too, only to receive an automated reply stating....

"We will endeavour to respond to your correspondence within 21 days, however there are occasions due to unexpected events where we may take a little longer."

WTF????

Is this a joke?

Is this really the case, or am I being fooled by someone who's watch has frozen on 1 April????

If true, the DJ complaints procedure is SERIOUSLY flawed.

 

[markis10]

Re: How to complain to Virgin??

Have you tried to PM Virgin Blue on AFF, while its not an official process its a handy alternative when official channels may not always work!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: How to complain to Virgin??

I have considered that and may indeed do so, but I feel that's an abuse of their right to use this forum without harassment.

I was kind of hoping someone would be able to say something like "oh, they have a direct complaints line and the number is......."

 

[Saab34]

Re: How to complain to Virgin??

Which airline has a "direct complaints line" these days? Too costly to run such a department in this environment. JQ/TT/DJ, they are all the same, write a letter/email them and they will get back to you in a few weeks.

It would be great if we could get a little info about this complaint?

 

[markis10]

Re: How to complain to Virgin??

It would seem from the information on the website that only informal complaints can be made with an actual call , seems to be a hangover from days of old:

Feedback and Complaints

If you have a problem, we want to resolve it quick smart. Call our Guest Contact Centre anytime on 136 789.
To make it formal (or to formally tell us that you love us!):

• Use this online form.
• Write to Virgin Blue, PO Box 1034, Spring Hill QLD 4004.
• Fax +61 7 3295 5642.

We aim to resolve complaints within 21 days (depending on their complexity).

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: How to complain to Virgin??

It would be great if we could get a little info about this complaint?

Ahh, the complaint will seem trivial to most except me (and 4 or so others similarly affected).

Simply, I purchased a premium economy fare OOL-SYD, turned up at the airport, ran to plane in pouring rain (OOL likes the "regional" airport feel) only to find me sitting in my 1A seat being rained on. The flights departure was delayed 20 minutes (by Sydney congestion) but despite all passengers being aboard, they decided it wise to leave the door open so I could properly wash my shoes (maybe I should have worn thongs, then I could have cleaned out my toes as well ).....but, that's not my complaint (even DJ can't help the weather).

My complaint is, that the seat I paid top dollar for was a standard economy seat. When the FA was queried about it, she was taken aback that we hadn't already been contacted pre-flight as the plane was scheduled two days previously. She advised us it was a brand new plane and hadn't yet been "in" to have the PE seats fitted. She advised us that she requested OOL ground staff to contact guest relations and have them deal with it that day and told us we would be contacted before the afternoon.

Afternoon arrived, no call.....so I telephoned the contact number she had supplied to us. The lady on the phone was most UNhelpful and insisted my seat was PE as it was 1A and when I finally seemed to get through to her that it was not what I paid for, she tells me I can't speak to anyone as guest relations don't have a phone (even Fred Flintstone had a phone) and I'd have to use the feedback form on the website.

The wonderful news that I'd have to wait, perhaps in excess of three weeks for a response is really just the icing on a mouldy cake. I expect a credit or a refund as per the trade practices act as the product I was supplied was not as advertised. Effectively, I was charged $450 for a seat I could have bought for $75!

To top it all off, the seat belt didn't work either and I had to be relocated during flight.......so much for a brand new plane!

 

[Deleted User]

Re: How to complain to Virgin??

Poor service is never forgivable....

I do hope DJ make it right for you my AFF friend...

 

[Moopere]

Re: How to complain to Virgin??

Ahh, the complaint will seem trivial to most except me

Nope. Not only you. This has been discussed previously and at length.

Whilst some are of the opinion you should simply 'suck it up' I am firmly of the opinion that with such poor treatment and non delivery of advertised and paid for product that you should write to Virgin to let them know they actually only have 7 days to respond to you before you take it up with your credit provider by way of a chargeback.

From there, once you have you money back, they can take as long as they deem necessary to think about and ponder what they'd like to do

Note that many here have strong opinions about this subject. You now know mine, some say that the T&C's of the airlines mean they only need to transport you from A to B to fulfil their contract. I'd like to think that the TPA gives some pretty strong guidance on this however ... despite what any T&C may or may not say (and in most/all cases consumers cannot legally waive their rights in relation to the TPA)

She advised us it was a brand new plane and hadn't yet been "in" to have the PE seats fitted.

My goodness. This old line still being wheeled out? PE is about to go in favour of J and we still get the 'new plane' excuse.

I don't buy it, and its not enough anyway. You have paid, they are obligated. Not good enough in my book to surprise your customer in this way.

The wonderful news that I'd have to wait, perhaps in excess of three weeks for a response is really just the icing on a mouldy cake. I expect a credit or a refund as per the trade practices act as the product I was supplied was not as advertised. Effectively, I was charged $450 for a seat I could have bought for $75!

Chargeback. Seriously. But if you do this, make sure its clear you do intend to pay, but that the goods/services received were not as advertised. You then simply rescind payment, which then gets the airlines full attention and begin a negotiation of what sort of monetary transfer is appropriate ... and in which direction

Feel free to take 21 days to respond to any communication that they may give you, and only accept that communication in a form that is of the utmost convenience for yourself.

 

[markis10]

Re: How to complain to Virgin??

Before we get carried away with chargebacks and discussion about the trade practices act etc etc, I would like to draw the OPs attention to a post here by DJ on the matter:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....-blue-premium-economy-26034-5.html#post367315

It's not an unusual experience to be reported here and while getting some help/support on the phone has been lacking in the OPs experience, there have been plenty reports of unexpected letters or emails with offers of compensation for the expectations not being met. I would suggest some time be allowed for things to happen!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: How to complain to Virgin??

Thanks for the link to the other threads Markis. I didn't know they were there, but this thread was more started to highlight the DJ complaints falldown rather than my specific complaint itself. As far as I'm concerned, any company (be it Telco, Airline, Gov't, utility etc) that can only get around to dealing with a complaint in 3 weeks (possibly even more) either have way TOO many complaints or are just plain ignorant and are treating their valued customers with contempt. I wonder which it is in DJs case?

Imagine if you purchased a 65" Plasma TV from Harvey Norman and they actually delivered you a 22" CRT set and then told you to complain via email and they may get around to dealing with it in 3-4 weeks time!!!!! Do you imagine anyone would accept that as normal procedure?

In regard to the complaint itself, I will respond to those other threads, in order to keep the theme in one place.

 

[LiamR]

Re: How to complain to Virgin??

My understanding if somone books a PE seat an air aircraft without PE, they still recieve:

Free IFE
Free Food from the Menu
A seat block next to you.
Seated in the front rows.

Did you recieve all these things? Because apart from Red seats, I don't see much missing.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

I've just been directed to this thread, from another similar thread so I'll repaste my experience here as well......

"I purchased a premium economy fare OOL-SYD, turned up at the airport, ran to plane in pouring rain (OOL likes the "regional" airport feel) only to find me sitting in my 1A seat being rained on. The flights departure was delayed 20 minutes (by Sydney congestion) but despite all passengers being aboard, they decided it wise to leave the door open so I could properly wash my shoes (maybe I should have worn thongs, then I could have cleaned out my toes as well

).....but, that's not my complaint (even DJ can't help the weather).

My complaint is, that the seat I paid top dollar for was a standard economy seat. When the FA was queried about it, she was taken aback that we hadn't already been contacted pre-flight as the plane was scheduled two days previously. She advised us it was a brand new plane and hadn't yet been "in" to have the PE seats fitted. She advised us that she requested OOL ground staff to contact guest relations and have them deal with it that day and told us we would be contacted before the afternoon.

Afternoon arrived, no call.....so I telephoned the contact number she had supplied to us. The lady on the phone was most UNhelpful and insisted my seat was PE as it was 1A and when I finally seemed to get through to her that it was not what I paid for, she tells me I can't speak to anyone as guest relations don't have a phone (even Fred Flintstone had a phone) and I'd have to use the feedback form on the website.

The wonderful news that I'd have to wait, perhaps in excess of three weeks for a response is really just the icing on a mouldy cake. I expect a credit or a refund as per the trade practices act as the product I was supplied was not as advertised. Effectively, I was charged $450 for a seat I could have bought for $75!

To top it all off, the seat belt didn't work either and I had to be relocated during flight.......so much for a brand new plane!"

Further to that post, I'm surprised that some members seems to think this is OK.

For me, I almost always choose the cheapy fares. In this case, I had an important early meeting in Sydney and all I wanted was a large seat so I wouldn't appear "crumpled" when I arrived. Looking at the PE benefits, I don't use the IFE, OOL doesn't have a lounge (and I'm a paid member anyway), a seat block beside you (which is only useful if you've a decent seat size to start with, otherwise a foldup armrest would be far better), portability of the fare (which I never value anyway and rarely need, which is why I guess I'm still silver) and free food.

The seat size was the ONLY reason I upgraded to PE. OK, I also had a "free" coffee and Panini (very nice too BTW), which is what....$15? So in a nut shell, I paid $450 for a seat that was WORSE than a seat I could have got for $75 + $15 for the food. My calculations suggest I'm worse off by $350. Expensive lesson. One that I've learnt, but seems DJ have not.

The really important issue here is, how many premium flyers have been shunned by DJ, ironically because they do not wish to provide the product because of changes happening in the future to lure those very customers! Can no one else see the absurdity in DJs policy in this regard? Prior notification and FAIR compensation (even a little sweetner on top) would easily have turned a bad news story into praise.

 

[markis10]

Re: How to complain to Virgin??

. As far as I'm concerned, any company (be it Telco, Airline, Gov't, utility etc) that can only get around to dealing with a complaint in 3 weeks (possibly even more) either have way TOO many complaints or are just plain ignorant and are treating their valued customers with contempt. I wonder which it is in DJs case?
.

I have merged the two threads because they are really about the same thing, not getting what you paid for and the follow up required.

My question to you though is when did the flight happen, DJ state they will resolve issues in under 21 days where possible, this is an expectation setting rather than reality in every case as you can see by reading the various experiences mentioned here from those in similar positions?

Having a problem on Monday over a very long weekend and not getting action is probably a bit premature given we are barely into the third working day for the past 9 days, however if we are talking about an event last month or earlier, thats a different ballgame!

 

[crazydave98]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

I've just been directed to this thread, from another similar thread so I'll repaste my experience here as well......

"I purchased a premium economy fare OOL-SYD, turned up at the airport, ran to plane in pouring rain (OOL likes the "regional" airport feel) only to find me sitting in my 1A seat being rained on. The flights departure was delayed 20 minutes (by Sydney congestion) but despite all passengers being aboard, they decided it wise to leave the door open so I could properly wash my shoes (maybe I should have worn thongs, then I could have cleaned out my toes as well

).....but, that's not my complaint (even DJ can't help the weather).

My complaint is, that the seat I paid top dollar for was a standard economy seat. When the FA was queried about it, she was taken aback that we hadn't already been contacted pre-flight as the plane was scheduled two days previously. She advised us it was a brand new plane and hadn't yet been "in" to have the PE seats fitted. She advised us that she requested OOL ground staff to contact guest relations and have them deal with it that day and told us we would be contacted before the afternoon.

Afternoon arrived, no call.....so I telephoned the contact number she had supplied to us. The lady on the phone was most UNhelpful and insisted my seat was PE as it was 1A and when I finally seemed to get through to her that it was not what I paid for, she tells me I can't speak to anyone as guest relations don't have a phone (even Fred Flintstone had a phone) and I'd have to use the feedback form on the website.

The wonderful news that I'd have to wait, perhaps in excess of three weeks for a response is really just the icing on a mouldy cake. I expect a credit or a refund as per the trade practices act as the product I was supplied was not as advertised. Effectively, I was charged $450 for a seat I could have bought for $75!

To top it all off, the seat belt didn't work either and I had to be relocated during flight.......so much for a brand new plane!"

Further to that post, I'm surprised that some members seems to think this is OK.

For me, I almost always choose the cheapy fares. In this case, I had an important early meeting in Sydney and all I wanted was a large seat so I wouldn't appear "crumpled" when I arrived. Looking at the PE benefits, I don't use the IFE, OOL doesn't have a lounge (and I'm a paid member anyway), a seat block beside you (which is only useful if you've a decent seat size to start with, otherwise a foldup armrest would be far better), portability of the fare (which I never value anyway and rarely need, which is why I guess I'm still silver) and free food.

The seat size was the ONLY reason I upgraded to PE. OK, I also had a "free" coffee and Panini (very nice too BTW), which is what....$15? So in a nut shell, I paid $450 for a seat that was WORSE than a seat I could have got for $75 + $15 for the food. My calculations suggest I'm worse off by $350. Expensive lesson. One that I've learnt, but seems DJ have not.

The really important issue here is, how many premium flyers have been shunned by DJ, ironically because they do not wish to provide the product because of changes happening in the future to lure those very customers! Can no one else see the absurdity in DJs policy in this regard? Prior notification and FAIR compensation (even a little sweetner on top) would easily have turned a bad news story into praise.

swanning_it, we are very sorry about your experience. As a Velocity Gold or Silver your should have been put through to Guest Relations. They are now aware of the issue and I believe you will be contacted today by them. The FA was right to be surprised that you had not been contacted before the flight when it was known that a rogue aircraft would be assigned to the sector on which you had booked a PE fare as this is the normal procedure.

Regarding your more general point about lack of a complaints phone number and the stated response time of within 21 days:


We would love to provide a phone number for general complaints but have taken a deliberate decision not to because it would actually cause more guest service problems than it would resolve. Typically when something goes wrong at an airline, a large number of people are affected. Think of what happens if they all reach for the phone at the same time to complain.

• Firstly they will get an engaged tone - we are not going to maintain a standing army of 1000 operators for the odd occaision when we need them all at once. The delays will only inflame the situation.
• Second, they may miss our attempts to contact them (whether through PA announcements at the airport, instructions on the FID or outbound phone calls, SMS and email). It is very unlikely that a phone operator will be able to resolve an individual's complaint if for example the network operations team is busy transfering people between flights because of weather or tech cancellations.
• Third, you wouldn't believe how rude and unreasonable irate travellers can be in the heat of the moment - ask a guest services agent at the airport who has been spat on and abused. Given that in many situations we would not be able to do anything instantly to fix the weather at Sydney, channelling people through the online form allows some cooling off and it is also a form of filtering - some people will decide it is not worth complaining after all. Believe me in situations where a large number of people are affected it is very unlikely that we are unaware of the problem and having 1000 people yelling down the phone for the same reason isn't going to help get things sorted - it only ties up resources from fixing the problem.

All that said, we recognise that complaints from high tier Velocity members and corporate accounts need to be treated somewhat differently than a bewildered and frustrated infrequent leisure traveller looking to vent. Typically an informed/frequent traveller will have a very specific and legitimate complaint and because of their commercial importance we will want to provide a different level of service. As mentioned, if a Gold or Sliver rings our main number they should be put through to Guest Relations. I believe there are further enhancements planned as part of the Velocity relaunch this year.

So about the 21 day response time. This is mostly about being able to prioritise. If a Velocity gold member is rightfully unhappy about not getting PE when they paid for it, that goes to the top of the queue and will get resolved quickly. If someone who is not a member of Velocity buys a sale fare and complains that we only had blueberry muffins when they wanted chocolate (and yes we do receive this sort of stuff) then we may regard that as not so urgent. Of course if you would rather that person ahead of you in a telephone queue...... The other aspect of the 21 days is when disaster strikes - Queensland floods, our reservations system goes down etc. All hands man the pumps to get everything working again but there will be a backlog of complaints which will take time to clear.

As an aside, the online form also has the benefit of being quite efficient and low cost. Instead of a phone operator having to take down details of the complaint and log it in the system, this is done through the online form. As mentioned there are some people who demand a higher level of service.

So the online complaints form is the best way we have found to handle complaints from the general public. Hope this helps explain our choices.

cheers

CrazyDave98

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

swanning_it, we are very sorry about your experience. As a Velocity Gold or Silver your should have been put through to Guest Relations. They are now aware of the issue and I believe you will be contacted today by them. The FA was right to be surprised that you had not been contacted before the flight when it was known that a rogue aircraft would be assigned to the sector on which you had booked a PE fare as this is the normal procedure.

Dave,

Thanks for your (as per always) courteous response.

I have to dash off to a meeting now, but you may wish to check your response. It's different to what I've been told by guest relations. I'll elaborate more on that this afternoon when I'm back home, but needless to say, this whole situation has gone from being an inconsistant nuisance to an absolute slap in the face.

 

[Moopere]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

Regarding your more general point about lack of a complaints phone number and the stated response time of within 21 days:


We would love to provide a phone number for general complaints but have taken a deliberate decision not to because it would actually cause more guest service problems than it would resolve. Typically when something goes wrong at an airline, a large number of people are affected. Think of what happens if they all reach for the phone at the same time to complain.

CrazyDave98,

Solid considered response, I am always impressed when airline reps respond in forums like this. My comments below then are a difference of opinion by way of business practice and no more than that:

I can see the reasoning behind making it difficult to complain, from both an airline manning perspective and the customer 'cool off' perspective.

However, there are probably two broad classifications of complaint and you allude to this in your post as well.

Theres the complaints about the muffins being the wrong shape, or the seat being the wrong colour. These are more likely to be raised by quirky personalities and are not likely to come in a big lump.

The second type are due to real issues that are likely to disturb large numbers of Pax. Flight cancellations, delays, or whatever, legitimate complaints relating to a failure of the airline to provide contracted product.

Transportation is a service industry as much as it is an engineering/mechanical/technical one. By making it near impossible to talk, in the immediate term, with the corporate entity, you _may_ take some heat out of the original complaint, only to be replaced with genuine anger and unhappiness as there seems no way to resolve the issue(s) in reasonable time frames. Remember, service has not been delivered in one form or another (usually) and you have peoples money.

If, as a LCC, Virgin can't provide service personnel to look after such situations, and really, its no more or less than a business decision, then, in my opinion, it would serve both the airline and the customers much better to provide a soft landing to the disappointment thats about to come.

No good having a computer shoot off an SMS to customers that may or may not arrive. Spend some money up front _ensuring_ affected customers are contacted by a human and put some real effort into this. I bet you in 80-90% of cases you will alleviate the problem of needing to staff a 1000 man complaints call centre. Use that call to hand out a case number and, where appropriate (dependent on the nature of the anticipated problem), hand out immediate refunds and/or other options to assist the customer who has, after all, most probably held up _his_ end of the contract.

Again, if the PE / J + reasonable levels of service model can't be jammed into the financial reality of a LCC then don't try to sell such product. The complaints are almost 100% due to poor delivery of anticipated product. If you don't sell the product you don't create the anticipation and you don't get the complaints therefore you don't need the call centre.

 

[crazydave98]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

Transportation is a service industry as much as it is an engineering/mechanical/technical one. By making it near impossible to talk, in the immediate term, with the corporate entity, you may take some heat out of the original complaint, only to be replaced with genuine anger and unhappiness as there seems no way to resolve the issue(s) in reasonable time frames. Remember, service has not been delivered in one form or another (usually) and you have peoples money.

In situations of mass disruption, see comments below.

If, as a LCC, Virgin can't provide service personnel to look after such situations, and really, its no more or less than a business decision, then, in my opinion, it would serve both the airline and the customers much better to provide a soft landing to the disappointment thats about to come.

Small point but Virgin Blue is not an LCC - our practices regarding complaint handling are no different from national carriers like Qantas and AirNZ.

No good having a computer shoot off an SMS to customers that may or may not arrive. Spend some money up front _ensuring_ affected customers are contacted by a human and put some real effort into this. I bet you in 80-90% of cases you will alleviate the problem of needing to staff a 1000 man complaints call centre.

Sorry but that is not correct. If we have a day where everything is clagged up - for example Sydney weather - it would take thousands of staff to make outbound phone calls. Not going to happen. The best we can reasonably do is to identify specific guests - such as those with international connections - and contact them individually which we do. To communicate with the masses needs the computer and SMS. As mentioned in my previous post, the process where we have an identified small scale problem such as a rogue aircraft (only 1 or 2 left in the fleet) is to contact in advance those guests who have purchased PE fares.

The complaints are almost 100% due to poor delivery of anticipated product. If you don't sell the product you don't create the anticipation and you don't get the complaints therefore you don't need the call centre.

I totally agree and took that up internally after making my previous post. We certainly need to better manage expectations of what PE is, particularly with regard to the hard product.

cheers
CrazyDave98

 

[jsd]

Re: The great VIRGIN BLUE PREMIUM ECONOMY rip off! - Does anyone have a similar story

The seat size was the ONLY reason I upgraded to PE. OK, I also had a "free" coffee and Panini (very nice too BTW), which is what....$15? So in a nut shell, I paid $450 for a seat that was WORSE than a seat I could have got for $75 + $15 for the food. My calculations suggest I'm worse off by $350. Expensive lesson. One that I've learnt, but seems DJ have not.

I'm sorry to tell you that the seat width on ALL of the seats on the Boeing 737-800 aircraft are the same width so it would not have made a difference whether the aircraft had been fitted with the Red PE seats or not.

All of the rogue aircraft have been fitted with some kind of PE product, and you still receive the extra legroom