The interesting sound of silence.

[whatmeworry]

Considering no one actually likes TA, one of Krudd's final acts was to stop him getting a ridiculous majority like Campbell Newman had. TA despite his win and his party members trying to con the Australian public into thinking they had a massive majority mandate. What mandate? They promised nothing, But then tried to remove taxes off big bussiness and increase taxes on the middle and lower demographics.
I can't wait for a Federal ICAC into how Abbott's daughters, and how one got a plum job with the diplomats in Switzerland despite lack of experience or how the other got a super doper secret free scholarship, that she got despite not being needy or talented enough, but then also also got a job at the same institute that are Liberal donors.

 

[dajop]

This is how the Westminster system works, and whilst it may be technically possible for a party to roll their leader before the swearing in ...

Although it may not necessarily be the party that rolls their leader. The party leader could lose their own seat in parliament ......

 

[seanpodge]

61-39 is pretty much the perfect result for the ALP. Keeps Abbott in charge, yet clearly demonstrates that there are a significant group of MPs who, despite no openly declared alternative, reckon Abbott isn't good enough to be their leader. Doubly so if no frontbenchers voted for the spill out of cabinet solidarity. If Abbott keeps the job until May, then the 2015 budget will probably be a bigger farce than 2014.

That said, Shorten is right. It's not the salesman, it's the product that's the problem. The 2014 budget clearly broke the promises made by Abbott before the election and went against most Australians' idea of a fair go. All the rich got was a temporary 2% tax rise while the poor were pretty much held upside down by the ankles until their pockets were empty. In no defensible way could the Coalition say that the burden was being fairly shared. The tax levy is temporary, the cuts are permanent.

In light of that, Turnbull will have to do more than an evening of Q&A in his leather jacket to turn things around. Major policies will have to be redone or dropped. Several frontbenchers will also have to be dropped. Hockey is the obvious one, but there are plenty of frontbenchers who are hangovers from the Howard era (i.e. 7-8 years ago!) who have been pretty much useless since day one.

 

[serfty]

..

Last I checked te ALP was not returned to government at the last election. The people rejected their promises. It's up to the LNP if they want to go ahead and introduce similar measures. Those measures belong to the LNP if they wish to adopt them.

The Government have endeavored to introduce similar measures - the ALP are not helping them pass. The bit about being tied up with other legislation is not a stopper - the ALP can simply put forward amendments.

Any way that is irrelevant - to cite Fact Check:

"
The bottom line

Senator Cormann says three measures originally proposed by Labor are now being blocked.

The Government's legislation to pursue changes to R&D concessions is identical to changes introduced in draft legislation by the ALP in 2013.

Its legislation to abandon tax cuts linked to the carbon tax mirrors Labor's 2011 law introducing those cuts, which Labor said in 2013 it intended to defer.

Savings proposed from changes to the higher education package reflect those identified in Labor's last budget.

... However, the Government's measures remain the same. Labor, in two Senate committee reports, admits as much.

...

The verdict

While Labor says it has good reason for blocking the legislation, each of the three areas had been identified by it as an appropriate way to find savings, regardless of how the savings would be applied.

In any event, Senator Cormann is not making a claim about why Labor is blocking legislative changes that it proposed first, only that it is.

The measures that Labor is opposing would save the budget more than $5 billion.

Senator Cormann is correct.

"

 

[Major]

This is my contribution to this thread

 

[medhead]

The Government have endeavored to introduce similar measures - the ALP are not helping them pass. The bit about being tied up with other legislation is not a stopper - the ALP can simply put forward amendments.

Any way that is irrelevant - to cite Fact Check:

"
The bottom line

Senator Cormann says three measures originally proposed by Labor are now being blocked.

The Government's legislation to pursue changes to R&D concessions is identical to changes introduced in draft legislation by the ALP in 2013.

Its legislation to abandon tax cuts linked to the carbon tax mirrors Labor's 2011 law introducing those cuts, which Labor said in 2013 it intended to defer.

Savings proposed from changes to the higher education package reflect those identified in Labor's last budget.

... However, the Government's measures remain the same. Labor, in two Senate committee reports, admits as much.

...

The verdict

While Labor says it has good reason for blocking the legislation, each of the three areas had been identified by it as an appropriate way to find savings, regardless of how the savings would be applied.

In any event, Senator Cormann is not making a claim about why Labor is blocking legislative changes that it proposed first, only that it is.

The measures that Labor is opposing would save the budget more than $5 billion.

Senator Cormann is correct.

"

And I'll go back to my original statement. As we learnt on AFF during the term of the last government the opposition has no requirement or obligation to pass government legislation. It feels like there is an element of trying to have a cake and eat it too in all of this.

Is there anything in not mentioning the $20 billion of savings the ALP has supported.

 

[medhead]

Considering no one actually likes TA, one of Krudd's final acts was to stop him getting a ridiculous majority like Campbell Newman had. TA despite his win and his party members trying to con the Australian public into thinking they had a massive majority mandate. What mandate? They promised nothing, But then tried to remove taxes off big bussiness and increase taxes on the middle and lower demographics.
.

They got as much mandate as the number of seats in the reps and senate that we gave them.

 

[Hvr]

Here's a thought:

Last time Abbott won by one, this time by 22. He is immensely more popular now than five years ago.


Francis Smith, Caulfield North

Submarine call shows PM has learnt nothing

 

[serfty]

And I'll go back to my original statement. As we learnt on AFF during the term of the last government the opposition has no requirement or obligation to pass government legislation. It feels like there is an element of trying to have a cake and eat it too in all of this.

Is there anything in not mentioning the $20 billion of savings the ALP has supported.

All that is nice for you and you are welcome to eat your own cake. mention of $20 billion is not relevant other than to illustrate how they could have done more. My post was:

It does not help that theALP have been helping block $5b of savings measures that it proposed first.

.. confirmed by ... Labor blocking $5 billion of its own savings measures

 

[medhead]

All that is nice for you and you are welcome to eat your own cake.

The only people attempting to eat their own cake are those who previously told us that the opposition are not required to past government legislation but are now attacking the alp for applying that standard.

mention of $20 billion is not relevant other than to illustrate how they could have done more. My post was:.. confirmed by ... Labor blocking $5 billion of its own savings measures

I can only quote from admin, in response to your constant repetition of this. Read it the first time and still dismiss it for all the reasons I've already outlined.

• Respect that other people may hold a different view to you and that is ok. It's not your job to convince everyone to move to your side of the fence.

I'm sure you know where that quote is from, I can only ask that you respect those rules.

 

[medhead]

Here's a thought:

Of course, last time there was an opponent. 39 would rather have an empty seat instead of abbott.

 

[medhead]

Will be interested to read the thoughts about shorten's press conference right now.

 

[serfty]

...

I can only quote from admin, in response to your constant repetition of this. Read it the first time and still dismiss it for all the reasons I've already outlined.

I'm sure you know where that quote is from, I can only ask that you respect those rules.

I am not sure how opinions differ relevant to the $5Bn of savings identified by the ALP. Various views have been expressed quoting my posts on the $5bn but nothing discussing savings identified by the ALP specifically.

 

[medhead]

I am not sure what your opinion is, relevant to the $5Bn of savings identified by the ALP as you don't appear to have discussed it specifically. As a result I can't apply any differential on this topic. Various views have been expressed.

Anyway I shall leave it at that.

I have clearly expressed a number of times why that does not belong to the alp now. I've said the premise is false. If you've missed that it's not my problem. Hounding me with constant repetition will not change my view.

 

[serfty]

I have clearly expressed a number of times why that does not belong to the alp now. I've said the premise is false. If you've missed that it's not my problem. Hounding me with constant repetition will not change my view.

Ok, so it did apply to the ALP at some stage - so my statement can't be false.

I will leave it at that.

 

[get me outta here]

Here's another few thoughts from Peter Martin: Why the government is a brake on the economy

 

[medhead]

Ok, so it did apply to the ALP at some stage - so my statement can't be false.

I will leave it at that.

I never said your statement was false. I said the premise of your claim that the ALP in opposition own those measures was false.

 

[Durin's Bane]

No, they didn't have control of the senate. The fact that their measures didn't pass the senate tells us that.

The Greens held the balance of power in the senate from 2010 to 2013. I should have said the ‘ALP-Greens coalition’ could have introduced tough measures but failed to do so.

 

[Durin's Bane]

Watching the Q&A circus for maybe the last time tonight - Quentin Dempster and the ABC are so scared of further cuts that they are giving Alan Jones a soapbox to spew his particularly putrid right wing diatribe. Chris Bowen gets 20 seconds before Alan or Jamie Braggs interject with "it's all Labour's fault".

Heather Ridout makes the most sense followed by Corinne Grant ... but they are shoved to the sidelines. Typical of the times I suppose.

"Putrid right wing diatribe".

Alan Jones commanded the show and was devastating. Made Chris Bowen look like the amateur he is. Chris did not have a single response to his facts and figures. The sandalistas at the ABC wont make the mistake of inviting AJ onto the show again.

Also, I think you missed the last 20 minutes of the show where he clearly showed his support for farmers and home owners over mining interests.

Jamie Briggs was weak as usual, typical Liberal Q&A attendee. He needs to learn from AJ.

Heather Ridout was invisible as CEO of the AIG. Never ran a business herself but claims to know what business wants. I guess that makes her like most of today's pollies...

What value does Corinne Grant bring to discussions? Light laughs? Cheapens Q&A even more every time they bring on a 'comedian'.


I agree with you, Q&A has been a circus for a long time, I hardly ever watch it. I reckon our reasons may differ somewhat however. But when I heard AJ was on, I knew I wouldn't be disappointed.

 

[Alanslegal]

Day 1 of Tony Abbott trying to paddle up the creek without a paddle, and watching and awaiting the crocodiles circle his boat. Lucky when the crocs do attack and they will when his polls continue to be in the dump, the death roll from the crocs powerful body will make it swift and decisive.