The Qantas Newbie Questions Thread

[SYD]

Question: Does searching/booking an open jaw flight itinerary on the QF multi-city tool produce outcomes that are price competitive/reasonable vs. non-open jaw flight itineraries?

I am thinking about flights to Egypt/Jordan etc for some travel this year and I was thinking about booking an open jaw ticket across multiple cities so I could fill in some internal local/regional flights with local carriers.

I'm thinking something like this:

Outbound: Melbourne - Dubai(or Doha) - Cairo

Inbound: Jordan - Dubai(or Doha) (Including a stopover of say 5 or so days) - Melbourne

If I kept the intermediate city (Dubai/Doha) the same on both legs would the QF multi-city tool price this close to a "standard" return flight of Melbourne-Cairo-Melbourne or Melbourne-Jordan-Melbourne? Or is this something that a TA would be better placed to price?

I guess it is the open-jaw aspect of the itinerary that has me puzzled over the pricing.

Thanks.

Absolutely! Very worth while playing around with the MC search.

I can’t speak for you specific requirements but I’ve had some great deals using MS. One trick is to see what’s on “sale” (mostly grim post Covid) but search into a port on sale and then outbid elsewhere.

ITA Matrix will save you a lot of time first.

 

[Kerrodt]

Absolutely! Very worth while playing around with the MS search.

I can’t speak for you specific requirements but I’ve had some great deals using MS. One trick is to see what’s on “sale” (mostly grim post Covid) but search into a port on sale and then outbid elsewhere.

ITA Matrix will save you a lot of time first.

What is “MS Search”?

 

[DejaBrew]

What is “MS Search”?

I'm guessing it was an autocorrect typo and was meant to be "MC" (Multi City).

 

[kangarooflyer88]

What is “MS Search”?

Multi-sector search?

 

[SYD]

I'm guessing it was an autocorrect typo and was meant to be "MC" (Multi City).

Yep. Corrected…

Also meant to say that open-jaw (A to B, C to A) does mean you need to make own way B to C. But a one way might still be better value in $ and time doing A to B (return) and B to C (return).

 

[RichardMEL]

It’s not KL by the way I simply used it as an example to hide the identity of this “opportunity” and it’s not originating or terminating in Oz either.

-RooFlyer

It should be impossible to book a QF codeshare not involving Australia for the very reason that codeshares are used for sales of QF fares. ie QF require aithorisation to sell fares for the locations involved. I can't think of any routes not onvolving AU as an O or D that QF sells its own fares in. Still happy to be corrected.

For example, QF can offer and sell LAD-LAX-MEL and offers codeshares to enable this, including a QF codeshare in AA LAS-LAX. Hiwever, QF cannot offer and sell fares LAS-LAX only, and thus you would never see a QF code iffered on LAS-LAX alone for sale.

Let alone booking rewards seats.

So if you've found one, I believe many would be interested to know!

 

[SYD]

It should be impossible to book a QF codeshare not involving Australia for the very reason that codeshares are used for sales of QF fares. ie QF require aithorisation to sell fares for the locations involved. I can't think of any routes not onvolving AU as an O or D that QF sells its own fares in. Still happy to be corrected.

For example, QF can offer and sell LAD-LAX-MEL and offers codeshares to enable this, including a QF codeshare in AA LAS-LAX. Hiwever, QF cannot offer and sell fares LAS-LAX only, and thus you would never see a QF code iffered on LAS-LAX alone for sale.

Let alone booking rewards seats.

So if you've found one, I believe many would be interested to know!

There are non-AU originating/terminating “codeshares” for sale (eg NAN-LAX on FJ, I’ve booked it).

But to the best of my knowledge you can’t get that as a CR with a QF code? Which was the gist of the OPs question RE PC member earning SCs on QF coded codeshare. SB might have some others?

 

[kangarooflyer88]

It should be impossible to book a QF codeshare not involving Australia for the very reason that codeshares are used for sales of QF fares. ie QF require aithorisation to sell fares for the locations involved. I can't think of any routes not onvolving AU as an O or D that QF sells its own fares in. Still happy to be corrected.

For example, QF can offer and sell LAD-LAX-MEL and offers codeshares to enable this, including a QF codeshare in AA LAS-LAX. Hiwever, QF cannot offer and sell fares LAS-LAX only, and thus you would never see a QF code iffered on LAS-LAX alone for sale.

Let alone booking rewards seats.

So if you've found one, I believe many would be interested to know!

Okay, I think it is now safe for me to let the cat out of the bag on this one. The route(s) involved are LATAM flights between Sydney and Auckland to Santiago. Here's one such example I found on 18 March:



As you can see, the flight is quite clearly operated by LATAM but not only carries a QF flight number but also the QF classic award price for such a flight (and not the partner award price). Now maybe this is a quirk of the codeshare agreement QF has with LA but I have not seen this before. Oh and yes you can also grab that flight out of AKL too:


-RooFlyer88

 

[RooFlyer]

As you can see, the flight is quite clearly operated by LATAM but not only carries a QF flight number but also the QF classic award price for such a flight (and not the partner award price). Now maybe this is a quirk of the codeshare agreement QF has with LA but I have not seen this before. Oh and yes you can also grab that flight out of AKL too:

I haven’t followed the LATAM Qantas agreement for a while but I believe it might still be the case that Qantas actually “owns“ a certain number of seats on the LATAM flight. They have the right to sell them exclusively at least at first. This may explain the ability to price them like regular classic awards rather than treat them as a code share.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I haven’t followed the LATAM Qantas agreement for a while but I believe it might still be the case that Qantas actually “owns“ a certain number of seats on the LATAM flight. They have the right to sell them exclusively at least at first. This may explain the ability to price them like regular classic awards rather than treat them as a code share.

That may be the case but that doesn’t answer one question: how can they codeshare on a flight originating out of Auckland? I can understand codesharing of the itinerary originated or terminated in Australia but this seems a bit odd.

 

[MooTime]

but this seems a bit odd.

the odd thing about oddities is that they not always odd or a bit odd.

vagaries of any sector.

loophole if you like.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

That may be the case but that doesn’t answer one question: how can they codeshare on a flight originating out of Auckland? I can understand codesharing of the itinerary originated or terminated in Australia but this seems a bit odd.

Qantas must have fifth freedom or whatever the applicable ‘freedom’ is for AKL-SCL.

 

[Mwenenzi]

That may be the case but that doesn’t answer one question: how can they codeshare on a flight originating out of Auckland? I can understand codesharing of the itinerary originated or terminated in Australia but this seems a bit odd.

If you click through the SYD-SCL QF3877/LA?? does it ticket as QF3877?

Australia & New Zealand is a "single aviation market". Legislation in both countries supporting that. Hence QF AKL-JFK and Air NZ in past flying SYD-LAX (or some other USA airport)

Many types of codeshares. From a 2009 FT post by B747-437B;

There are more ways to structure a codeshare agreement than might be apparent on the surface. I've negotiated codeshares that were based upon "hard blocks", "soft blocks", "moving block", "free sales", "revenue sharing", "open sale", "sell and report" and various other systems.

In a "hard block", the operating carrier makes available a fixed number of seats to the marketing carrier. This is usually done on a fixed cost per seat basis. The marketing carrier then applies its own yield management to these seats and sells them in competition with the operating carrier. If the marketing carrier fails to sell all the seats, then they go empty.

In a "soft block", the marketing carrier reserves the right to return to the operating carrier any unsold seats at various given points in time. Their liability to the operating carrier is reduced accordingly. The payments due may vary depending on whether the operating carrier is able to resell the seats returned.

In a "moving block", the marketing carrier guarantees a minimum number of sales over a given period based upon inventory ranges made available by the operating carrier. These ranges may be fluid or prenegotiated or a combination of both depending on specific operational day.

In a "free sale", the marketing carrier sells the operating carrier's inventory without any restrictions at either mutually agreed fares or unilaterally set fares.

In an "open sale", the marketing carrier sells the operating carrier's inventory until the operating carrier stops them from selling any more.

In a "sell and report", the marketing carrier sells the operating carrier's inventory independent of the operating carrier's systems and simply updates the systems subsequently with details of sales completed.

In a "revenue sharing" system, the marketing carrier and the operating carrier share all costs and revenues in pre-determined proportions, irrespective of who the actual cost may be incurred by or where the revenue may have been generated. This is the system used by most alliances who have attained anti-trust immunity.

Beyond this there are further restrictions as to traffic rights and markets in which the codeshares may be marketed and the settlement procedures and whether surcharges may be applicable and literally hundreds of other possibilities.

 

[RichardMEL]

Thanks for the edumacatipn folks

I had been thinking maybe something like AKL-DFW on AA.

 

[Lynda2475]

I have seen QF Flight number show on Classic Awards seats on FJ in the search results (so same situation as LATAM above), but when you select and go through to buy, they end up ticketing as FJ flight numbers. So I wouldn't be so sure the QF numbers will stick.

Let us know if they do ticket as QF codeshare.

 

[SYD]

That may be the case but that doesn’t answer one question: how can they codeshare on a flight originating out of Auckland? I can understand codesharing of the itinerary originated or terminated in Australia but this seems a bit odd.

As above and also Fiji (as I mentioned earlier). There could well be others.

But, does the QF CR book (ticketed) with a QF code?