Thoughts on a Ryanair like airline for Australia?

[vdj_145]

Would you prefer a system where you use points for upgrades or a very cheap airline instead like Ryanair but in Australia?

 

[Lynda2475]

Hard no to Ryan AIrand its ilk, Bonza tried and failed.

 

[moa999]

Tiger was probably Australia's most barebones LCC.. eventually absorbed into Virgin Australia.
Jetstar and the original Virgin Blue I push a little higher talon the scale.

 

[Mwenenzi]

AU is a very small market compared to the EU population and destinations (airports)
Look at this list. Some, but not all, are old. But has others that tried and failed in the ~last 20 years. Filter - sort on "ceased operations"

List of defunct airlines of Australia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[elanshin]

Conceptually, I'd be happy if a Ryanair Australia appeared. In reality, due current landscape makes this a very hard thing to make happen from a business point of view.

Post automatically merged: Dec 4, 2024

Hard no to Ryan AIrand its ilk, Bonza tried and failed.

I'm not sure why you don't want them to exist. Them existing is good for you even if you never fly them. Competitive pricing forcing reactionary moves across the whole market. Could even mean dropping a QF price a bit here or there.

 

[firewater]

No way. The entire idea of Ryanair needs to be banned permanently. No one should have to endure that experience.

 

[clifford]

No one should have to endure that experience.

I'm not sure what experience you're referring to. If you adhere to their rules (not too onerous) and select decent seats on flights at reasonable times of the day I'm not sure what the problem is if the price is right.

For example, I need to get from Ljubljana to Malta in June, and FR has a flight from Zagreb (a shortish bus ride away) for a basic fare of $79. Using a major airline would cost 3-4 times as much and require a connection somewhere. This is where the LCC's in Europe have an advantage, flying diect between cities not otherwise directly connected by the majors. Last year I flew BOH-MLA on FR. No other airline flies this route.

But I agree that this model likely won't work in Australia because of insufficient demand (remember Bonza).

 

[p--and--t]

I'm not sure what experience you're referring to. If you adhere to their rules (not too onerous) and select decent seats on flights at reasonable times of the day I'm not sure what the problem is if the price is right.

For example, I need to get from Ljubljana to Malta in June, and FR has a flight from Zagreb (a shortish bus ride away) for a basic fare of $79. Using a major airline would cost 3-4 times as much and require a connection somewhere. This is where the LCC's in Europe have an advantage, flying diect between cities not otherwise directly connected by the majors. Last year I flew BOH-MLA on FR. No other airline flies this route.

But I agree that this model likely won't work in Australia because of insufficient demand (remember Bonza).

For one of my trips to Europe I needed to get from FCO to AMS.

All the majors wanted to take me back to their base and charge me in excess of $1,000.

I took a LCC for $69 and less than half the time lost in transit.

 

[Chicken]

Ryan? No. Strict but different luggage allowance, flying to airports in a farm then the bus fare costs as much as the plane ticket. No to these. Too many traps.

On the otherhand, yes to easyjet and Norwegian

 

[Lynda2475]

I'm not sure why you don't want them to exist. Them existing is good for you even if you never fly them. Competitive pricing forcing reactionary moves across the whole market. Could even mean dropping a QF price a bit here or there.

Because we have plenty of evidence that Australia can't sustain 5 major airlines, and when they fail us tax payers will yet again have to pick up part of the tab.

Plus we already have 3 LCCs (Virgin, Jetstar and Rex), if anything we need a second full service airline not an even lower LCC.

We also dont have enough lesser used useful airports near where people want to travel per their model. The Ultra LLCs only work where there are large populations and lots of tertiary airports not too far from where people want to be.

 

[elanshin]

Because we have plenty of evidence that Australia can't sustain 5 major airlines, and when they fail us tax payers will yet again have to pick up part of the tab.

Plus we already have 3 LLCs (Virgin, Jetstar and Rex), if anything we need a second full service airline not an even lower LCC.

How did we jump from 3 to 4 airlines or have you missed the memo on Rex. Also why do tax payers pick up any tab? What tab are they picking up when a private company fails?

Sure there's a few taxes owed here or there outstanding but thats usually quite small.

 

[Lynda2475]

What tab are they picking up when a private company fails?

There have been multiple bail outs for Rex in the past; and they are still asking for subsidies to keep flying their smaller regional routes; its only their 737 fleet that aren't operating right now.

When companies like Bonza fail not only do we miss tax revenue but there is an indirect cost in supporting former employees who lost their job and entitlements. That may be unemployment benefits or other assistance now, and more pension later because they have insufficient super at retirement.

So no I don't want to see a Ryan here because their wafer thin margins cant be supported by our small population and lack of secondary/tertiary airport options in holiday regions which is what they target.

 

[clifford]

Ryan? No. Strict but different luggage allowance, flying to airports in a farm then the bus fare costs as much as the plane ticket. No to these. Too many traps.

On the otherhand, yes to easyjet and Norwegian

I've flown both FR and U2 many times (being a Brit/Aussie) and don't see a huge difference in them. I'd pick whichever was the most convenient and usually with a paid seat assignment. Although, when I flew U2 from PMO to NAP a couple of months ago thinking that for a 30 minute flight it wasn't worth paying for a seat, I was assigned seat 3C anyway.

Oh, and what's the real reason you have a problem with FR? You don't actually have to fly to/from a field (they have many flights where this is not required), and aren't they the most punctual airline in Europe? I've flown to a few FR "fields" in my time, but there's usually some kind of public transport available to get you somewhere else (perhaps with the exception of Kerry - have you been there?).

 

[Chicken]

I've flown both FR and U2 many times (being a Brit/Aussie) and don't see a huge difference in them.

what's the real reason you have a problem with FR?

I think they create too many traps for passengers.

One example is no combining checked bag allowance. If there were 2 people travelling together on Plus fare which includes 20kg checked allowance, it is 2 x 20 kg, you cannot have 1 bag of 25 kg, you would have to pay extra. easyjet doesn't trick people like this, and I would say, not most airlines I have encountered.

I have been caught by this, and I have seen people juggling things between their luggages at check in counters.

Hence, I think Ryan is a pretty low airline, and I don't mean low fare.

You don't actually have to fly to/from a field (they have many flights where this is not required)

Just using Paris as an example, Ryan uses Beauvais, easyjet uses Orly. Ryan charges 20 € for the flight, then you pay 16,9 € for the bus ride from the airport. The bus ride is basically the same price as the flight itself.

Hence, I would rather fly easyjet or Norwegian, than supporting something like Ryan.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

There have been multiple bail outs for Rex in the past; and they are still asking for subsidies to keep flying their smaller regional routes; its only their 737 fleet that aren't operating right now.

When companies like Bonza fail not only do we miss tax revenue but there is an indirect cost in supporting former employees who lost their job and entitlements. That may be unemployment benefits or other assistance now, and more pension later because they have insufficient super at retirement.

So no I don't want to see a Ryan here because their wafer thin margins cant be supported by our small population and lack of secondary/tertiary airport options in holiday regions which is what they target.

Unfortunately on that basis we shouldn’t allow anyone to set up a small business (or even some big businesses!) Least of all a restaurant, cafe or franchise! Many of those don’t survive, and workers are in the same situation with entitlements and unpaid wages.

I’d argue we already have a Ryanair in Jetstar and Virgin. Agree with others that they are really useful with some niche markets.

It’s true they used to fly to some way out airports… but that’s not the case for the vast majority of their flights in those niche markets. No difference in JQ flying to Avalon though.

 

[clifford]

Just using Paris as an example, Ryan uses Beauvais, easyjet uses Orly. Ryan charges 20 € for the flight, then you pay 16,9 € for the bus ride from the airport. The bus ride is basically the same price as the flight itself.

Hence, I would rather fly easyjet or Norwegian, than supporting something like Ryan.

Yes, of course, but anyone flying FR to 'Paris" should have done a little homework beforehand. OK, some don't, but...

It's a bit like FR's "Brussels" (aka Charleroi) and "Frankfurt" (aka Hahn). Both are at least 50 km from the named city and are a bit of a PITA to get to/from.

How do I know? Well, I've done both, with the intention of saving a few $$$, but it's not for the faint hearted or the unprepared...

 

[SeatBackForward]

Maybe that's the Koala Airlines plan?

 

[Disco]

Ryan? No. Strict but different luggage allowance, flying to airports in a farm then the bus fare costs as much as the plane ticket. No to these. Too many traps.

On the otherhand, yes to easyjet and Norwegian

Yes, agree. Caught 2 norwegian flights thus year. Very good experience.
However, as pointed out by others, Aus doesn't seem to have the population to make it work.

 

[Himeno]

Airlines like Ryanair just make me think of this

 

[Disco]

Airlines like Ryanair just make me think of this

And they can sing