Thoughts ? VA in its desire to become a business airline forgot economy

[serfty]

Except the other major domestic carrier offers significantly more in onboard F&B than what VA does for more or less the same flight cost

I do generally book several months in advance economy and almost always find VA 15-20% cheaper.

For this single reason I fly VA more than QF.

Note that VA do serve champagne in business coast to coast ... Qantas do not.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I do generally book several months in advance economy and almost always find VA 15-20% cheaper.

For this single reason I fly VA more than QF.

Note that VA do serve champagne in business coast to coast ... Qantas do not.

I don't book that far ahead (not usually able to). VA are rarely cheaper, it's usually line ball for me.

 

[PLANT]

1991 fuel price was like $180 a barrel...... Um it's now $50!...... That's got to be a factor in the food service provided... Cost debate?

 

[ap_spd]

The EY alliance was always good enough for me...until they introduced world record breaking surcharges! Transfer to SQ seems the next best thing.

Well technically VA did not even sign up to the EY Alliance, the bespoke model is not too good in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

The EY alliance was always good enough for me...until they introduced world record breaking surcharges! Transfer to SQ seems the next best thing.

I struggle at times, to understand the English with the OS Int reward call centre. I did have to almost argue with one guy to get them to check a reward comparison between EY and SQ with him almost refusing to do the comparison as he claimed EY would be cheaper ... as it turned out, it wasn't and I booked SQ. I've wondered if earning directly with EY and then making use of their surrogate alliance might be worthy of further investigation, but the big crux is whether you can buy AU dom (on VA metal) directly from EY without an Int. leg? I'm unsure about that.

 

[dfcatch]

Remember that the Game Change Program was arguably brought about by QF's over-investment in JQ which led to DJ having to transform into VA and move up to be a full-service carrier.

Rewinding from that - remember that JQ and all its "LCC flag offerings" (including deliberately piss-poor service, draconian customer service recovery and nickel & diming) was designed to compete head-on with DJ.... AND to muddy the waters and leave a bad taste in the mouth of consumers who didn't like the LCC approach.

It wasn't just JQ that wore the opprobrium due to JQ's reputation DJ (as the other discount carrier) wore it too, through no fault of their own. The strategy was very deliberate to push service-conscious consumers to QF.

So DJ was forced to act and that's why we have VA.

The problem was that VA ran out of money to weather QF's aggressive defenses, whilst at the same time gaining a profitable market share as a full service carrier.

Now we're seeing the results of that where VA has also run out of ideas - so we see the aggressive cost-cutting in the air, and a few mismanaged and misdirected loyalty changes (amongst some positives). Basically - we're seeing scrambling and desperation.

The result is that VA has decided to return part-way towards being a LCC/Hybrid in an effort to reduce costs - except that they cannot compete on JQ's cost-base, and they seemingly no longer want to compete with QF - yet often charge close to QF fares.

---------
Now - that said - VA have a superb transcon product and forced QF to lift their own game. VA also now have a superb transpac J product - which they previously struggled to sell, but with The Business may actually improve their results.

VA also excels at PB and forced QF to lift their game (if only in signage rather than implementation).

For a purely domestic Golden Triangle or transcon flyer - VA is arguably still a competitive choice as preferred carrier (recent moronic loyalty decisions aside).

Yes - the J product isn't as good as QF's - but it's generally cheaper on the Golden Triangle too.

The problem isn't as simple as deserting VA for QF.....

Without a competitive VA taking the fight to QF in the premium space - it's only a matter of time before QF reduces amenities and services too. Let's not forget how bad QF's 'snack flights at meal time" flights were just a couple of years ago.

My prediction is that right now - is the peak of QF service domestically. Standby for future enhancements.

 

[under the radar]

Remember that the Game Change Program was arguably brought about by QF's over-investment in JQ which led to DJ having to transform into VA and move up to be a full-service carrier.

Rewinding from that - remember that JQ and all its "LCC flag offerings" (including deliberately piss-poor service, draconian customer service recovery and nickel & diming) was designed to compete head-on with DJ.... AND to muddy the waters and leave a bad taste in the mouth of consumers who didn't like the LCC approach.

It wasn't just JQ that wore the opprobrium due to JQ's reputation DJ (as the other discount carrier) wore it too, through no fault of their own. The strategy was very deliberate to push service-conscious consumers to QF.

So DJ was forced to act and that's why we have VA.

The problem was that VA ran out of money to weather QF's aggressive defenses, whilst at the same time gaining a profitable market share as a full service carrier.

Now we're seeing the results of that where VA has also run out of ideas - so we see the aggressive cost-cutting in the air, and a few mismanaged and misdirected loyalty changes (amongst some positives). Basically - we're seeing scrambling and desperation.

The result is that VA has decided to return part-way towards being a LCC/Hybrid in an effort to reduce costs - except that they cannot compete on JQ's cost-base, and they seemingly no longer want to compete with QF - yet often charge close to QF fares.

---------
Now - that said - VA have a superb transcon product and forced QF to lift their own game. VA also now have a superb transpac J product - which they previously struggled to sell, but with The Business may actually improve their results.

VA also excels at PB and forced QF to lift their game (if only in signage rather than implementation).

For a purely domestic Golden Triangle or transcon flyer - VA is arguably still a competitive choice as preferred carrier (recent moronic loyalty decisions aside).

Yes - the J product isn't as good as QF's - but it's generally cheaper on the Golden Triangle too.

The problem isn't as simple as deserting VA for QF.....

Without a competitive VA taking the fight to QF in the premium space - it's only a matter of time before QF reduces amenities and services too. Let's not forget how bad QF's 'snack flights at meal time" flights were just a couple of years ago.

My prediction is that right now - is the peak of QF service domestically. Standby for future enhancements.

In a nutshell...VA started the 'war' with QF, and now can't complete the mission. That's not QF groups fault. It's a pathetic 'excuse' when some people blame others for their poor performance, and drag them down too, because 'it's only a matter of time'. QF group is a business too, and reacts to market conditions. The difference is that QF (some) supporters don't blame VA for their 'predicament' .

 

[grubbidok]

I don't think airlines focusing so much on J and forgetting about Y is a uniquely VA issue - I don't think any airline cares about Y anymore. QF are doing it just as much and there has been a steady decline in Y offerings by all airlines (even the venerated SQ have dropped substantially IMO). I'm not sure QF are 'better' as much as they are better at some things than VA (and VA better than QF at others) - neither of them really offer a 'complete package' and our own personal service preferences/expectations dictate which airline we get most disappointed by.

I think the issue is that VA made such a big song and dance about becoming 'full service' when 'full service' was quickly losing its meaning. People were expecting it to shift its offer up to what QF gave you 5 years ago, when in reality 'full service' at both QF and VA is rapidly heading to the standard international (as now seen in US/European/Asian) short haul no-frills type model.

 

[dfcatch]

In a nutshell...VA started the 'war' with QF, and now can't complete the mission. That's not QF groups fault. It's a pathetic 'excuse' when some people blame others for their poor performance, and drag them down too, because 'it's only a matter of time'. QF group is a business too, and reacts to market conditions. The difference is that QF (some) supporters don't blame VA for their 'predicament' .

There's no "blaming" about it. Nor is it about who "started" it. If you want to go down that path then where do you start?

- AirNZ destroying AN?
- QF losing the leisure market to DJ?
- QF launching JQ and starting a direct fight with DJ?
- QF over-investing in JQ, forcing DJ with nowhere to go but to compete with QF?

It's a silly line of argument and reasoning.

It's just a simple analysis of what happened.

Ultimately though, you're right - VA's problems are up to VA to fix. And QF's problems are up to QF to fix. Both have kicked plenty of own goals in recent years, but lately QF is on the up and VA is retreating to a very uncomfortable place....

 

[24601]

Can anybody list the objective measures on which QF is "far superior" to VA?

I am fascinated by this recurring rhetoric as I cannot see it. I get that the VA snack in economy is poor... But otherwise?

Some of the criticisms seem fair, but I've never noticed that big a difference either. I've been lucky enough never to have experienced a bad meal in J and am not much of a drinker, so don't notice the booze either way. I do wonder why you even need a meal on a 1-hour flight? If you are flying J for business-purposes, like rushing off to a meeting, then that must be one of the arguments for paying extra for J. But there isn't that much extra in domestic J that is actually worth the price premium, is there, except demand? The biggest cost to the airline must be an extra staff member and however many Y seats could fit in that space. J must be very profitable for airlines.

If flying any class on any airline you could grab something to eat at the airport. Does anyone rely on a SYD-MEL meal as their main meal of the night?

I love the way people become so passionate about the airlines like people used to about Ford vs Holden. I enjoy flying QF and VA but my flying is mostly for leisure.

 

[ap_spd]

Ohh I agree, one can buy food at the airport or eat something in the lounge before 1 hr flight. The reason of my rant was to see what does VA do for Y pax, J you can still claim to offer a meal but saying we offer a lemon biscuit / museli bar as meal and then take ur choice of water or tea as drink does not reflect too well of a full carrier. LCC yes, but not the new VA (or so I think).

 

[bcworld]

but saying we offer a lemon biscuit / museli bar as meal and then take ur choice of water or tea as drink does not reflect too well of a full carrier

They don't claim to offer a 'meal' though. They claim to offer 'complimentary food'. So they actually do what they say they'll do. It's just that what they offer is so abysmal that they'd be better off not bothering. They also claim to offer 'tea, coffee and water'. so again, they do what they say. But the fact you can't have a complimentary soft drink either then, or especially during the Mon - Fri comp beer & wine period is ludicrous.

 

[Mattg]

But the fact you can't have a complimentary soft drink either then, or especially during the Mon - Fri comp beer & wine period is ludicrous.

My most recent VA flight was scheduled to depart between 5-7pm on a Friday (i.e. during happy hour) and complimentary soft drinks were offered in addition to beer, wine & cider. (Not sure if that's the official policy, or if they were just trying to make up for the fact the flight was 2 hours late though...)

Having said that, I totally agree - charging ~$4 for a can of coke during the 158 hours per week that don't fall into "happy hour" is pathetic.

 

[bcworld]

My most recent VA flight was scheduled to depart between 5-7pm on a Friday (i.e. during happy hour) and complimentary soft drinks were offered in addition to beer, wine & cider. (Not sure if that's the official policy, or if they were just trying to make up for the fact the flight was 2 hours late though...)

Hmmm, maybe I was wrong about that, the website does mention soft drinks during happy hour - I'm sure it was that way at one time though.

 

[yohy?!]

i got a ginger ale on my flight 2 weeks back on a friday evening for free - just had to pay $8 for the vodka to go with it

 

[Ausbt]

Another bothersome issue was recently when the tea/coffee services was suspended due to turbulence. I asked for a Coke Zero (for the caffeine) and VA asked me for $4 or thereabouts. I wasn't about to ask the two people next to be to move so I could pull my wallet from the overhead, so just responded "don't worry about it, I'm good". I guess had they given one to me, everyone would want it and likely they didn't have much on stock.

And don't get me started on that advert with the image of the smiling chap receiving his Quiche alongside the tagline "complimentary food on all flights". Unsure what happened to that Quiche but I've never come across one.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

And don't get me started on that advert with the image of the smiling chap receiving his Quiche alongside the tagline "complimentary food on all flights". Unsure what happened to that Quiche but I've never come across one.

It was probably not quiche ... rather cliché!

 

[Pele]

Gday

My two bobs worth: i havent flown QANTAS for probably 10 years. Have a reasonable stash of points in Velocity and usually fly VA domestic if i can. All my flying is holidays. 6 weeks ago i flew SYD- CNS with QF and CNS- SYD with VA just to have a comparison. Went up Friday night at 1930, came back Sunday night at about 1800. On the QANTAS flight i asked for a beer, they asked me for $6 so i told them to forget it. Coming back with VA i asked for a beer they said that will be $6, again i told them to stick it. If that's a full service airline on a 3 hour flight then next time i will be looking at Tiger. Both pathetic.

Pele.

 

[Edge]

Flew MEL-PER-MEL on VA this week in Y and the food on the flights was terrible. Scrambled eggs with a few bits of potato stuff and a piece of tomato for brekky on the way over, with a yoghurt. Way back was a choice between a vegetarian nasi goreng or a beef curry with rice. I had the beef curry with rice and it was terrible.

Third Perth trip this year and definitely the worst from a food offering. No other complaints though.

 

[24601]

Flew MEL-PER-MEL on VA this week in Y and the food on the flights was terrible.

It is good to see the VA is finally achieving a good level of consistency in their in flight service.