Tokyo - Pros and Cons

[Quickstatus]

Those are an abomination
I did look for the ultimate : Matcha Sake as there were seemingly matcha everything But glad I didn’t find any

 

[love_the_life]

I have been to JPN but only once, and still consider myself a novice.

Interesting comments all round - all valid I must say because that’s wonderful nature of travel. The different points of views add to the overall insights one gets when visiting a new place. There is no right or wrong.

But No one has yet mentioned Sake. I enjoyed the different Sakes during my time there. The differences in the taste, Warm and cold versions, clear and cloudy, the different designs in the porcelain cups used, and the associated cultural aspects adds to the overall experience. The custom of overpouring is a sign of welcome and generosity to the customer.

Did you know that the QF lounge at NRT has 2 Sake stations - each with different Sakes?.. And the attendant there can tell you about the differences - almost like a sommelier.
I realised I don’t get the headache associated with Red Wine when I do Sake!

Also no one has mentioned Matcha. It’s everywhere. I don’t know what the big deal is. I suspect it is mainly geared toward tourists.

I really enjoyed train travel in JPN. Such an efficient way to get around.

Matcha is used in green tea and in tea ceremonies. It’s not a tourist thing at all. Any small tea house will serve matcha if you ask for green tea. I find it a little too grass like in taste but I do drink it when it’s served to me.

 

[bPeteb]

Those are an abomination
I did look for the ultimate : Matcha Sake as there were seemingly matcha everything But glad I didn’t find any

We like them all although warm in the beautiful little timber boxes is the best

 

[Quickstatus]

Matcha is used in green tea and in tea ceremonies. It’s not a tourist thing at all. Any small tea house will serve matcha if you ask for green tea. I find it a little too grass like in taste but I do drink it when it’s served to me.

Yes I understand Matcha’s place in Japanese culture but it seems to be overly pervasive and touristy.

And yes I have observed queues going into Denny’s. Seemed a bit incongruous.

BTW the reason Japanese culture has survived in large measure is because of official and unofficial Monocultural policies. They are not in favour of immigration. Good or bad it is what it is.

 

[Max Samuels]

What a fascinating review. Of course an opinion is just that - and everyone is entitled to one. However I have to say that this is perhaps the first time I have heard someone list so many negative impressions of Tokyo, and Japan in general.

I am perhaps biased - I lived in Tokyo for nearly 7 years, speak the language almost fluently (it's a bit rusty these days) - but I find Tokyo one of the most vibrant and cosmopolitan cities in the world. Especially when it comes to eating. I think Tokyo has more MICHELIN star restaurants than Paris (feel free to fact check this statement but I do remember the controversy a few years ago when Tokyo "overtook" Paris....)

Late night food places ABOUND in Tokyo (Japanese cities in general). Especially in the designated nightlife areas of the city. I can't count the number of times I have eaten at 2am in an Izakaya somewhere...

I find food in general pretty cheap in Japan - pretty much every restaurant will have a "set menu" for lunch which is typically about 1000 Yen. And as you said, 7-eleven is always a good option as it is cheap and pretty fresh. I do agree with you on coffee though - they don't really do coffee well, unless you find a niche cafe that provides an "Italian" style of food and coffee. That's why Starbucks is there! The only place (other than the US) where I buy Starbucks coffee is Japan!

If you ever decide to visit again, here are my suggestions for eating:

Find the shopping centres above major train stations - JR has heaps of these. Typically, on the top floor(s) will be many restaurants, lots of cuisines, pretty well-priced. As to what is "well-priced", well that depends I suppose... but this morning I just paid $10 for a latte and a tub of yogurt at a cafe a Southern Cross station in Melbourne, which is pretty standard, and no more expensive (in my opinion) than Tokyo....

 

[Max Samuels]

Talking of hole in the wall places, how about the 3 Michelin Star sushi place in the bottom of a railway station that only seats 10. I wonder how the place is faring now that the owner has probably passed on. Good movie I saw years ago called ‘Jairo Dreams of Sushi’. Jiro Dreams of Sushi - Wikipedia.

Jiro's son has a sushi place in Seattle actually, I just went there last week! Was amazing

 

[Renato1]

I had very mixed feelings about Tokyo and Japan too. The subway I found very easy to use. All the private options though? Forget about it! Basically every time we bought a pass there was always a reason why we couldn't use it (their fault, not ours) and guess what, no refunds. Airport limousine bus and Hakone pass are 2 that spring to mind. Certainly did not enjoy forking out $40pp odd extra each time.

The food for me was tremendous. I wish I could eat more than 2-3 meals a day!

Interesting that that you had issues with the private options.
I suspect that it makes a very big difference of one's perception of Tokyo, if one thoroughly enjoys Japanese food.
Regards,
Renato

I have been to JPN but only once, and still consider myself a novice.

Interesting comments all round - all valid I must say because that’s wonderful nature of travel. The different points of views add to the overall insights one gets when visiting a new place. There is no right or wrong.

But No one has yet mentioned Sake. I enjoyed the different Sakes during my time there. The differences in the taste, Warm and cold versions, clear and cloudy, the different designs in the porcelain cups used, and the associated cultural aspects adds to the overall experience. The custom of overpouring is a sign of welcome and generosity to the customer.

Did you know that the QF lounge at NRT has 2 Sake stations - each with different Sakes?.. And the attendant there can tell you about the differences - almost like a sommelier.
I realised I don’t get the headache associated with Red Wine when I do Sake!

Also no one has mentioned Matcha. It’s everywhere. I don’t know what the big deal is. I suspect it is mainly geared toward tourists.

I really enjoyed train travel in JPN. Such an efficient way to get around.

Fascinating.
Not helpful to me though, as I've bought different two bottles of sake in my life, had a sip from each, then poured them down the sink. Just not my thing (I don't like wine either).
Cheers,
Renato

What a fascinating review. Of course an opinion is just that - and everyone is entitled to one. However I have to say that this is perhaps the first time I have heard someone list so many negative impressions of Tokyo, and Japan in general.

I am perhaps biased - I lived in Tokyo for nearly 7 years, speak the language almost fluently (it's a bit rusty these days) - but I find Tokyo one of the most vibrant and cosmopolitan cities in the world. Especially when it comes to eating. I think Tokyo has more MICHELIN star restaurants than Paris (feel free to fact check this statement but I do remember the controversy a few years ago when Tokyo "overtook" Paris....)

Late night food places ABOUND in Tokyo (Japanese cities in general). Especially in the designated nightlife areas of the city. I can't count the number of times I have eaten at 2am in an Izakaya somewhere...

I find food in general pretty cheap in Japan - pretty much every restaurant will have a "set menu" for lunch which is typically about 1000 Yen. And as you said, 7-eleven is always a good option as it is cheap and pretty fresh. I do agree with you on coffee though - they don't really do coffee well, unless you find a niche cafe that provides an "Italian" style of food and coffee. That's why Starbucks is there! The only place (other than the US) where I buy Starbucks coffee is Japan!

If you ever decide to visit again, here are my suggestions for eating:

Find the shopping centres above major train stations - JR has heaps of these. Typically, on the top floor(s) will be many restaurants, lots of cuisines, pretty well-priced. As to what is "well-priced", well that depends I suppose... but this morning I just paid $10 for a latte and a tub of yogurt at a cafe a Southern Cross station in Melbourne, which is pretty standard, and no more expensive (in my opinion) than Tokyo....

Thanks - but I'm scratching my head.

Had I seen any place with a lunch time set-menu for a 1000 yen (A$13.3), I'd have been tempted to give it a try. But all I kept seeing were prices more akin to 1800 yen (A24) - and I balked at spending that much money for a lunch I may well not like much. For a 1000 yen each, I got two cappuccinos and one piece of cake.

I must admit, I never looked for food halls on top of JR stations. But I did check out the food hall on top of Tokyo Plaza in Ginza, as well as in some other big stores. They were very pricey.

A$10 for a latte and a tub of yoghurt at a sit down place in Southern Cross station is about right - but I'd have had a very hard time finding that price in Tokyo, where A$10 (750 yen) or close to it would pay for the coffee alone.

Talking Italian, we had pizza at our hotel's restaurant one night. The description of the pizza sounded good, but when we got our individual pizzas it was a bit strange.They were just basic cooked Margheritta pizzas, on top of which they'd put the uncooked ham and vegetables. Which was odd, though tasty enough. Not really pizza though.

We did have a Starbucks just up the road from our hotel, but we never used it as we needed the coffee stop when we were in need of somewhere to sit and take a break while walking around. I'm quite fond of Starbucks coffee - reminds me of a stronger version of coffee from a Moka machine.

Funny how we are worlds apart in perceptions of the food and restaurants there - the difference being we were bumbling around trying to find something, whereas you had a lot of local knowledge.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[burmans]

Obviously, Renato did not discover on of Japanese best shops - The 100Yen shop.

Must admit that was my thoughts too, clearly looking in the wrong places. Yes, western food/items are expensive but there are plenty of other things that aren't.

 

[zenyattamondatta]

you had a lot of local knowledge

There's local knowledge, and then there's basic research and preparation.

I've been holding off on commenting further on this thread, because I happened to spend seven years at uni in Tokyo and am fluent in the language, and part of me does assume that someone fluent in Norwegian would find better places to eat in Oslo than I'd be capable of and so on.

But I spend about four months of the year in a pretty expensive part of Tokyo that's home to a multitude of embassies and lots of expats who speak not a word of Japanese.

Ruling out your non-preferred Japanese cuisine, just some of my local lunch options in the 1,000–1,800 yen range (mostly towards the lower end) include:

Mexican: Soup, salad, choice of one from seven mains, coffee
Indian: Salad, rice, naan, three small curries, lassi/coffee (+500 yen to add some tandoori chicken and some lamb)
Italian 1: Excellent pizza + excellent coffee
Italian 2: Soup, salad, bread, choice of one from three mains that change daily, small dessert, excellent coffee
French: Soup, salad, bread, main, dessert (add 500 yen to have two mains, one meat, one fish)
Thai: Salad, rice, choice of one of eight mains (under 1,000 yen)
Korean: Fantastic set of ten tiny appetizers + one main dish, option to add on a 200-yen beer or cider

And there are three dine-in bakeries with decent coffee.

And three very decent hamburger joints.

And one truck that does nice toasted sandwiches.

This is less for your sake, Renato (as a man who obviously knows what he likes and what he doesn't), than for others who might hit this thread because of the title.

The vast majority of people will not come away from Tokyo disappointed by the food.

 

[Max Samuels]

The vast majority of people will not come away from Tokyo disappointed by the food.

Agreed.
There are also some good value for money high-end options too.... if it's your cup of tea.....
The Ritz Carlton does a Sunday brunch for approx AUD$200pp which includes unlimited Dom Perignon for 3 hours.... so considering Dom costs about $230 a bottle here in Australia, if you are someone that would spend that on a bottle of champagne, the Ritz brunch is definitely worth it. They aren't stingy - it is quite possible to drink 3 bottles over 3 hours....

I think many Ritzs in Asia do this kind of brunch

 

[suze2000]

Now that is some very useful information. And just made the Ritz shoot to the top of my To Do list next time we are there. Because I can definitely drink at least one bottle of Dom in three hours. More if I am planning to get a cab back to the hotel and sleep it off!!!

 

[Max Samuels]

The Ritz Carlton does a Sunday brunch for approx AUD$200pp which includes unlimited Dom Perignon for 3 a bottle of champagne

Sorry - I got my luxury hotels confused!
The Ritz in Hong Kong does this (or used to).
In Tokyo, it is the Peninsula hotel that does the Dom brunch!!!

OFFERS

Choose from the exciting room packages and seasonal dining specials that showcase the best of The Peninsula Tokyo.

www.peninsula.com

Sorry for the confusion (too much champagne obviously lol)

 

[Renato1]

There's local knowledge, and then there's basic research and preparation.

I've been holding off on commenting further on this thread, because I happened to spend seven years at uni in Tokyo and am fluent in the language, and part of me does assume that someone fluent in Norwegian would find better places to eat in Oslo than I'd be capable of and so on.

But I spend about four months of the year in a pretty expensive part of Tokyo that's home to a multitude of embassies and lots of expats who speak not a word of Japanese.

Ruling out your non-preferred Japanese cuisine, just some of my local lunch options in the 1,000–1,800 yen range (mostly towards the lower end) include:

Mexican: Soup, salad, choice of one from seven mains, coffee
Indian: Salad, rice, naan, three small curries, lassi/coffee (+500 yen to add some tandoori chicken and some lamb)
Italian 1: Excellent pizza + excellent coffee
Italian 2: Soup, salad, bread, choice of one from three mains that change daily, small dessert, excellent coffee
French: Soup, salad, bread, main, dessert (add 500 yen to have two mains, one meat, one fish)
Thai: Salad, rice, choice of one of eight mains (under 1,000 yen)
Korean: Fantastic set of ten tiny appetizers + one main dish, option to add on a 200-yen beer or cider

And there are three dine-in bakeries with decent coffee.

And three very decent hamburger joints.

And one truck that does nice toasted sandwiches.

This is less for your sake, Renato (as a man who obviously knows what he likes and what he doesn't), than for others who might hit this thread because of the title.

The vast majority of people will not come away from Tokyo disappointed by the food.

Thanks - but it may be helpful for others to put the location/rough locality of where these places are.
Might be a handy place to take the Metro to.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

Agreed.
There are also some good value for money high-end options too.... if it's your cup of tea.....
The Ritz Carlton does a Sunday brunch for approx AUD$200pp which includes unlimited Dom Perignon for 3 hours.... so considering Dom costs about $230 a bottle here in Australia, if you are someone that would spend that on a bottle of champagne, the Ritz brunch is definitely worth it. They aren't stingy - it is quite possible to drink 3 bottles over 3 hours....

I think many Ritzs in Asia do this kind of brunch

Brunch - at $200 per person - where they serve Brut champagne - which I dislike intensely.
Now, had you said they had PepsiMax or Asti Riccadonna, my ears might have pricked up.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[offshore171]

Now, had you said they had PepsiMax

I’m told the ‘96 is spectacular if it’s been cellared well...

 

[Max Samuels]

Brunch - at $200 per person - where they serve Brut champagne - which I dislike intensely.
Now, had you said they had PepsiMax or Asti Riccadonna, my ears might have pricked up.
Cheers,
Renato

I am not following the PepsiMax thing.... is this some kind of inside joke that I have missed??
You surely cannot be serious about a brunch at the Ritz (or even McDonald's, for that matter) that would serve bottomless Pepsi?

 

[offshore171]

I am not following the PepsiMax thing.... is this some kind of inside joke that I have missed??

That’s exactly what I thought. Figured it was some sort of inside joke, code word or Renato being ironic.

Apparently not though. Addressed it earlier in the thread.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Regardsing airport transportation... a very easy way to get to downtown from either NRT or HND is the airport limo. Drops off at various locations. Taxis in central Tokyo have now reduced their flag-fall to just 450 yen (down from 750), so the last little bit to your hotel with luggage is quite economical.

 

[Max Samuels]

Regardsing airport transportation... a very easy way to get to downtown from either NRT or HND is the airport limo. Drops off at various locations. Taxis in central Tokyo have now reduced their flag-fall to just 450 yen (down from 750), so the last little bit to your hotel with luggage is quite economical.

Agreed - although from HND I would always recommend the train to Shinagawa (not the monorail) and then from there you can literally get anywhere in the city pretty easy....

 

[stm1sydney]

The food for me was tremendous. I wish I could eat more than 2-3 meals a day!

If you cannot squeeze in five meals a day when visiting any Asian city, you are not really trying!