Tony Abbott - New Opposition Leader

[medhead]

If I remember correctly, one of the biggest points the Coalition made when wanting to introduce the GST was that it would get rid of, or reduce the 'black' cash economy.

I am pretty sure that I have read reports that under the GST, the opposite has happened and the 'black' cash economy has grown significantly.

Anyone with half a brain who'd watch a couple of episodes on Minder could have told you the black economy would take off. Just that some of use can't avoid GST, whereas others can. e.g. tradies who always get paid in "cartons" and who pay for everything with cash.

In terms of the lower personal income tax, that is very true. income tax is lower. But from my budget research, (bearing in mind this research is a few years old) the tax take is basically unchanged it is just the mix that has changed. The tax take as a percent of GDP ran at about 22%to 25% under Howard, with a GST. Any cut in income tax was more than made up for by the increase in GST collected. IIRC Keating had the tax take as low as 19%/20% of GDP in some years, but typically in the range 21% to 24%. so he was kinda always 1% to 2% behind Costello.

You know I might have to really look into this all again. Maybe my memory is failing and I've got this completely wrong.

Ok I looked it up and my memory is failing:
http://www.budget.gov.au/2009-10/content/bp1/html/bp1_bst10-05.htm

Looking at the Receipts as a percent of GDP during Keating period (83 to 96) the average was 24.45%, Howard continued on at about the same rate until the GST kicked in and then his average jumped to 25.98%. so regardless of how much some taxes fell Costello was collecting about an extra 1.5% of GDP. Just to avoid accusations of basis in my calculations the average for all howard years is 25.7%.

That table has a fair bit of other information but I leave that to anyone who is interested. Also this might sound like a sprited Keating defence, but really i'm more about highlighting the not so trues of Howard and Costello. That doesn't mean I'm not aware of the good things that they did.

 

[coco50]

I just wish gRUDD would get off his world-wide soap-box, and spend sometime in Aus to try to do the job he was ellected for ??????
K Rudd is to statesmenship, what Venus Williams is to Ballet....Stuff All.

Cheers Dee

Well, just whom would you like to represent Australia when the representation level is Head of Government to head of government (note: not head of state - our head of state is Queen Elizabeth II who is the head of state of other countries whose domestic and foreign policies may not coincide with ours) - anyway, Dee, who would you like? Godwin Grech? or maybe the things that batter, Alexander Downer? or maybe Dame Edna Everage? I think not. In our system, the PM is the head od government and I think it is entirely appropriate that he represents us in these Head of Government fora - and he has done this extremely well. He has a most capable deputy and she can carry on with the business of government. Or would you rather we withdraw for the world scene?

 

[Dee Thom]

anyway, Dee, who would you like ? maybe Dame Edna Everage?

Would be a great improvement, and a far better Statesperson (Note not head of state) :!::!::!::!::!::!:

Cheers Dee

 

[serfty]

Would be a great improvement, and a far better Statesperson ...

Cheers Dee

I dunno.... reckon Sir Les Patterson would be far more interesting ...

 

[Dee Thom]

I dunno.... reckon Sir Les Patterson would be far more interesting ...

Boil my hide in oil, how could I forget my old mate Sir Les.

Anyhow, a merry christmas to all, and Robert I have enjoyed our jousts on this thread, and may you and yours enjoy chrissy.

Cheers Dee

 

[oz_mark]

I will note that overall, income tax rates (and amounts collected) have decreased significantly in the last 8 years - without GST this would not have been the case.

I doubt that there will be more reductions (apart from what is already lined up), for quite a few years now.

 

[medhead]

I dunno.... reckon Sir Les Patterson would be far more interesting ...

But would Sir Les wish to give up his cultural attache role. (or perhaps I missed his retirement)

 

[serfty]

But would Sir Les wish to give up his cultural attache role. (or perhaps I missed his retirement)

I'm not sure that would be necessary - such a role requires significant international travel, and that seems to be part of the Prime Ministerial role these days.

 

[bambbbam2]

Interesting story in the Herald today..

Labor Party and Catholics | Liberal Party | Catholic Church

"The debate over religion in politics comes as a Herald/Nielsen poll found 84 per cent of people agreed with the statement ''religion and politics should be separate'' - though three-quarters did not care whether politicians identified themselves as Christian or not."

Of the 20 members of shadow cabinet, 18 identified as Christian and two did not comment. None identified as atheist or non-believers.

 

[medhead]

Interesting story in the Herald today..

Labor Party and Catholics | Liberal Party | Catholic Church

"The debate over religion in politics comes as a Herald/Nielsen poll found 84 per cent of people agreed with the statement ''religion and politics should be separate'' - though three-quarters did not care whether politicians identified themselves as Christian or not."

Of the 20 members of shadow cabinet, 18 identified as Christian and two did not comment. None identified as atheist or non-believers.

The probem with this sort of survey is that it is complete rubbish. Separation of religion and politics does not mean that politicans must not have religion. A politician going to church is a quesiton of morals and what guides them in life.

Whereas, separation of religion and politics harks back to the separation of the church and the state, that is Henery thte 8th. This is a specific question for the time when Henry created the church of england and was both the head of common law and church law. Hence, someone with a disagreement involving the king were stuffed. This is not the same as politician not having religion.

 

[Dee Thom]

Hence, someone with a disagreement involving the king were stuffed.

You are describing our illustrious leader I presume ?

Cheers Dee

 

[medhead]

You are describing our illustrious leader I presume ?

Cheers Dee

I presume you intended there to be a of some description. Because in context the king I'm referring to is Henry VIII, who predates Australia by some small amout of time.

 

[Smackbum]

Nice of you both to avail us of your rose-coloured historical eye-pieces, but this thread was supposed to be about the Mad Monk.

BTW - I can't believe that people are already looking back with nostalgia on the Howard years, but apparently there are some otherwise intelligent Americans who miss George W as well. Go figure.

 

[coco50]

Boil my hide in oil, how could I forget my old mate Sir Les.

Anyhow, a merry christmas to all, and Robert I have enjoyed our jousts on this thread, and may you and yours enjoy chrissy.

Cheers Dee

Many thanks. Bev and I had a great time with her kids at Tweed Heads. Hope your Christmas was a good one

 

[medhead]

Nice of you both to avail us of your rose-coloured historical eye-pieces, but this thread was supposed to be about the Mad Monk.

Ohh, yes, the mad monk. Well he is mad and he is an ex-monk, of the catholic variation (IIRC) not that it matters really. I'll defend his right to have his relgious beliefs as his moral compass - certainly for him to do so does not re-join the church to the state. But at the end of the day he is the MAD monk and he won't succeed. I foresee a rotation of abbott and turnbull, and maybe Hockey - if he ever learns how to read the signs himself.

BTW I'm loving the departure of Howard (IMO a bigot who couldn't lie straight in bed). The absolute chaos that follows removal of a dicatorial leader is great fun

 

[Alanslegal]

BTW I'm loving the departure of Howard (IMO a bigot who couldn't lie straight in bed). The absolute chaos that follows removal of a dicatorial leader is great fun

I'll cheers to that

 

[Dee Thom]

I'll cheers to that

Stirrer !

Cheers Dee

 

[Alanslegal]

"Plant more trees" that's Abbott's response to the environment and combating climate change:-

Taxpayers to foot bill for big polluters under opposition plan


Oh not to mention, the burden upon the australian taxpayer.

Good on you Tony, it appears those bushwalks when you were young put you in good stead to care for the environment

 

[Keith009]

It'd be interesting to see where the money is going to come from. They opposed the ETS on the grounds that it's one big fat tax (which in fact it is), so I doubt the funds will be raised through additional taxation.

 

[serfty]

1Bn$ PA estimate (A drop in the budgetary bucket)