Too many people with QP access?

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PaulC83

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Just sitting in ASP QP waiting for my flight to DRW, and did a quick head count, 40 people in total waiting for a flight to CNS or DRW, both 717 flights, so thats 230 seats if the flights are full, thats 17% of people with access to the QP.

Doesn't leave much breathing space, especially in a small QP like this one!

Has the availability of QP access become too accessible and devalued the overall product?

I have found with most lounges that they are quite pleasant at quiet times, but its all one big rush if you are in the thick of the busy periods.
 
That seems to be the case. last friday I was guested into the J lounge by serfty (Thanks Ross:mrgreen:) and it was fairly busy even in the sectioned off J lounge at the MEL QP.

I had breakfast and left a little while after (About 8:45) and walking back through the regular area of the QP it was packed, not up to standing room only packed but busy enough.

I then went down to the DJ lounge in T3 and just asked the desk agent if I could take a look around, to my surprise he told me that DJ gold members were entitled to access on arrival so long as they had flown DJ that day:shock:

Guess how many people were in the lounge, go on have a go!


Josh:p



Answer: There were two other people in the lounge besides me, amazingly quiet:)
 
That seems to be the case. last friday I was guested into the J lounge by serfty (Thanks Ross:mrgreen:) and it was fairly busy even in the sectioned off J lounge at the MEL QP.

I had breakfast and left a little while after (About 8:45) and walking back through the regular area of the QP it was packed, not up to standing room only packed but busy enough...

Josh,

Perhaps it is all the "guests" who are not flying that is filling the clubs.

Apart from that, looks like we are about to undertake a "they should not have access discussion".

Paid members have a right to be there, status members have a right to be there so the only fair way to reduce the numbers is to limit guests.

ejb
 
Perhaps unsurprisingly I feel the need to chip in here. Hopefully, with something constructive, for a change. :shock:

My purpose here is to try to offer some background; an outline of the options and there various pros and cons. My personal views are probably well known and they haven't changed now that I am a gold FF. But I'll try to put those views to one side. I also freely admit that I don't have the answer to this often raised, but IMO trivial issue. (:oops: what did I just say about personal views).

But there is some frustration at this question, it seems, so I would like to start the ball rolling to provide some basic background for those people who feel the need to raise the question. I would see this as something of a wiki type entry or maybe a sticky that would represent an AFF consensus of the basics "facts" behind this issue, that can serve as a starting point for any further discussion. As I mentioned I don't have the answer and I hope that people can constructively add to this start.

so here we go:

Fundamental premise:
Qantas club and Qantas frequent flyer are both separate programs.
Qantas club predates Qantas Frequent flyer
Members of Qantas frequent flyer who meet certain criteria receive a complimentary membership of qantas club (NB this is how the benefit is worded and this arrangement maintains the separation of the programs.
All qantas club members receive complimentary membership of QFF. (NB again see separation point above)
Paid QC members initial supported the lounge but paying there cash in addition to buying flights, prior to members of QFF with status. Perhaps this contributed to the success of the lounge?
Paid QC members don't use the lounge that much because they don't fly enough to get status
Both QFF and QC members contribute to the cost of the lounge, by either buying enough flights or making a cash payment
The lack of membership breakdowns on QC and QFF programs makes discussion on the topic pure speculation which may not make the actual situation
[There was another but I forgot]

Solution: Stop paid membership of the Qantas Club
Pros:
will reduce people in the lounge
Cons:
Alienates the people who have supported the lounge,
reduces profitability of QC program
may result in loss of infrequent but high margin flight sales
unlikely to have a major impact on numbers in the lounge due to inherent (infrequent) flying patterns of paid QC members
frequent flyer lounge users place greater demand on resources due to more frequent use of the lounge
unlikely to lead to savings

Solution: Reduce complementary QFF members
Pros:
will reduce people in the lounge
likely to result in savings
May increase paid QC members
Deals with perceptions of various FF groups like suits or fifos
Cons:
Alienates the people who buy lots of flights,
may result in loss of flight sales (low margin but frequent flights?)
Impacts oneworld agreements
[there must be more] :-|

Solution: reduce guest access
Cons:
will reduce people in lounge (both guests and primary users due to relationship factors)
cost savings
may increase paid QC members
Pros:
alienates all lounge users
potential loss of flight sales

Solution: Reintroduce guest passes (perhaps with tiered passes depending on QFF status)
pros:
will reduce people in lounge by capping annual guest access
may lead to cost savings
benefits paid QC members who may travel infrequently but with more that one guest
Tiered passes would benefit frequent flyer QC members
places emphasis on the value of the lounge and guest rights for frequent flyer members
cons:
[not sure here, help]

Solution: Build bigger lounges, expand J lounge locations
Pros:
will accommodate more people
Cons:
increase running and capital costs
lack of airport space
Expectation that more people can access lounge

My remaining ideas for solutions relate to the cost of QC membership. These are a combination of the following ideas:
Increase cost of paid membership, including corporate memberships
do something to corporate membership - something = restrictions on eligible members or something - obviously this hits the bread and butter.
introduce charges for lower status levels that are in line with corporate membership tiers - bronze have to pay full applicable rate, silver members pay at an equivalent higher corporate rate, gold members pay at a lower corporate rate, platinum free (possibly with tiered guest passes) - (NB I know there are different corporate rates because the AFf corporate rates is much higher than the corporate rate I got as part of a very large corporate scheme.) so for a gold member we're talking something like $100 to $150 per year. Silver about the same as AFF corporate rate.

Anyway, I got to catch a plane.
 
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Perhaps unsurprisingly I feel the need to chip in here. Hopefully, with something constructive, for a change. :shock:

My purpose here is to try to offer some background;

......Anyway, I got to catch a plane.

medhead

A well thought out post.

My idea of limiting guests was more directed at the non flying guest and I don't think this would cause much problem.

I would still allow guests if flying on the same flight as the member.

However, as I have said before, everyone has a plan that would not impact them but reduce pax in the QP's and this creates a situation where members would be ranked and this is unfair in the QP as we are all equal members we just get the membership different ways as your post pointed out.

I am sure of one thing though, regardless of how many people in the lounge some people would think it was crowded.;)

ejb
 
Anyone remember the old Melbourne QP and its size???? I have also been at the QP CBR where it was standing room only, took advantage of the free entry for SG members to sample the DJ lounge, there were two people in the lounge!

There are times when the free beer is not worth the stress to find a seat, luckily there are usually plenty downstairs.
 
Anyone remember the old Melbourne QP and its size???? ...
Certainly! When I joined in 1994 it was a rectangular area between MEL domestic gates 1 and 3, expanded a year or two later with a semi-circular aspect sticking out over the ramp.

The bulge still exits, the location is now a retail areia with coffee shop nearer the concourse and a bar overlooking the tarmac.
 
Great for you!

Horrifying for Virgin!

Maybe, There were lots more people in there on the monday night.

This is one of those topics where there is really no easy answer and its anyones game to discuss, when I went to the QP on the friday it was still during the busy time where there are multiple flights going here, there and everywhere all at the same time. No doubt that the same thing was happening with DJ down at T3 at the same time so I can't comment on that.

By the time I left the QP most QF flights were back to their normal half hourly, hourly departures (with the exception of SYD flights, which were still running every 15 mins), business pax began to disappear and the leisure market started to appear.

I'm leaning towards if you don't like the crowds, you need to find out the non busy times but as I rarely visit the QP it's not too much of a concern to me, continue to debate the subject:lol:


Josh:p

B.T.W. I will make this very clear to all you WP's. I am in no way saying that you should not have anytime access or anything like that, you have all worked pretty hard to earn WP and it should be your right to access a QP, J lounge, F lounge. whatever at your own leisure
 
Certainly! When I joined in 1994 it was a rectangular area between MEL domestic gates 1 and 3, expanded a year or two later with a semi-circular aspect sticking out over the ramp.

I would guess its 1/4 the size of the current one excluding the CL lounge, makes you wonder where they will go next? I remember the old one being very crowded in 1997 during peak times, most of the current lounges to get busy at peak (Mondays/Fridays), then again most pubs do as well.
 
I've been travelling a bit lately and i have to say that it hasn't been overcrowded. usuaing 6.45am-8am on a monday and 6pm-7pm evenings. usually MEL, BNE or SYD.

OK BNE was packed last time, but there were 2 delayed flights.

Thing to remember is that there is peak time and i guess they are peaking higher! on the same token I've been there mid afternoon and it is almost a ghost town!
 
makes you wonder where they will go next?

Indeed, and I suppose that is what I was getting at with the post, I don't feel I have any more right than the next person to access the lounge, and if you have right to access then you have the right to enter and overcrowd as you wish, but it seems that there are just way too many people traveling with the ability to enter one way or another, especially at peak times and they tend have peaks due to operational reasons, so the question is where will they go next, or will it continue to degrade?

Lounge access seems to be a common topic of conversation when it comes to the best service (QF vs new DJ), and there seems to be some movement in that direction (e.g. table service in the J lounge).
 
Another (unpopular!) option - get rid of "anytime" access for WPs?

/ducks

I've only ever felt crowded in the mel dom QP.
 
Indeed, and I suppose that is what I was getting at with the post, I don't feel I have any more right than the next person to access the lounge, and if you have right to access then you have the right to enter and overcrowd as you wish, but it seems that there are just way too many people traveling with the ability to enter one way or another, especially at peak times and they tend have peaks due to operational reasons, so the question is where will they go next, or will it continue to degrade?
.

and everytime this comes up, it seems that people would like access for other people to be reduced whilst still allowing access for themselves

Removing paid membership would , I suggest, create the a large reduction in numbers in the lounge (c.f. BA , EK et al )

Alternatively, then again, so would removing access based on status for domestic flights and only allowing paid members in ( c.f. AAdvantage )

Removing all access other than class of service would have a huge impact and provide nice quiet lounges

Dave
 
Another (unpopular!) option - get rid of "anytime" access for WPs?

/ducks

I've only ever felt crowded in the mel dom QP.

Really how many WP just turn up "anytime access" when they aren't flying? I'm guessing a small %
 
medhead

A well thought out post.

My idea of limiting guests was more directed at the non flying guest and I don't think this would cause much problem.

I would still allow guests if flying on the same flight as the member.

However, as I have said before, everyone has a plan that would not impact them but reduce pax in the QP's and this creates a situation where members would be ranked and this is unfair in the QP as we are all equal members we just get the membership different ways as your post pointed out.

I am sure of one thing though, regardless of how many people in the lounge some people would think it was crowded.;)

ejb
Thanks, pretty high praise for 40 minutes of internal brainstorming in the QP before my flight. :cool: (I was also trying to take my mind of the reason I left work a bit later than normal)

To tell you the truth I didn't even think about the non-flying guests. Now that you mention it I'm even more convinced that one possible answer is to move back to guest passes perhaps on a tiered basis. That would make people more careful about when and how they use them. It'd also help for people like me who rarely have a guest, but when I do have guests it is usually the family flying with me but then I exceed the guest limit. Far better for me to be able to redeem 3 guest passes instead.

In terms of strain on the QC, I'm allowed to invite 100 people a year in to the lounge 1 person at a time twice a week. But I really only want to have 12 guests a year - family of 3 on 4 flights.

Removing paid membership would , I suggest, create the a large reduction in numbers in the lounge (c.f. BA , EK et al )

Dave

I'm sorry to say, I just can't see how this is possible. Paid members are all bronze and silver status. They are mostly going to be people who don't do enough flying to get the free lounge access, but who do have the money and self worth to pay for the lounge access. They would also do very little flying. At the most they would have to do < 70 flights per year (to not hit silver), and if they are the type to spend money on lounge access then they might very well be buying higher fare classes. I'd guess no more than one or two returns a month on average. So while there might be lots of paid members (who knows that information isn't available publically) their rate of use is going to be much smaller than the frequent flyer who is doing > 69 flights a year.

Of course, this line of reasoning comes unstuck with corporate schemes that bring the lounge in to the price range of those who are not "well heeled" as such. Which would suggest doing something to change corporate schemes to reduce those accessing the lounge on the cheap. I don't know what. But I'm certainly not talking about excluding "others". I was an infrequent flyer for many years, who was on a very cheap corporate scheme, so I'm basically talking about excluding me. But that gets back to the rate of usage point, while I was paying only $50 to $70 a year, I was also only in the lounge 2 or 4 times a year. I can't see such infrequent use as a big contributor to crowds.

Overall a very hard problem with no easy answers
 
Really how many WP just turn up "anytime access" when they aren't flying? I'm guessing a small %

I agree, how many WP regularly show up to the QP just for the sake of it when they aren't flying?

Occasionally I'll hit the QP when I arrive at my destination, very occasionally. I've also once on a project very close to the airport in MEL gone and used the QP for a few hours every day when I wasn't flying.

How many others use the QP on arrival, or, just show up the the lounge when they aren't flying at all?
 
...
How many others use the QP on arrival, or, just show up the the lounge when they aren't flying at all?

Hi vec,

I have used anytime access at SYD when I lived in Mascot as I could walk to the terminal have a few drinks and then walk home. Now I live a long way away I will not be doing this any more.

I use the QP very rarely when arriving, and usually only for a shower if arriving on a red eye.

I don't think that anytime access is crowding the QP's.

I would support medhead's idea of guest passes, and the higher the status the more passes, and limiting it to people flying with you.

ejb
 
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There are a lot of them though

Dave
Exactly! That's how Qantas profits from the QP's. I was told a few years ago by a QP manager that many Paid members fly less than 5 time per year and simply join the QP for access when they do. (Although this information may be rather dated as travelling in J now allows access, back then it did not.)
...
I would support medhead's idea of guest passes, and the higher the status the more passes, and limiting it to people flying with you. ...
Back to the Future!
 
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