Too many people with QP access?

[jsd]

Although this information may be rather dated as travelling in J now allows access, back then it did not.

Good point, if I want QP access, I can usually get a points upgrade to J even as a lowly NB if I try hard enough.

Although DJ has now won me over with their product offering so I think I will ditch QF soon and get myself a lounge membership when my DJ gold expires (unless I requal. of course)


Josh

 

[kezsco]

Everyone in the QP currently has a right to be there. Whether they fly alot, have flown alot, are flying in J, or have paid for a membership. Why does the solution have to lie in reducing the numbers of people who have access?

Qantas gets good money out of QP members who have paid for membership, and those who have earned membership by being very loyal (because there is always Virgin). To risk their profitability by tinkering with a system that is clearly working for them would be silly... because we all still want to be a part of Qantas and not Virgin (otherwise I'm sure we'd have changed quietly by now).

If we get the feeling of being too crowded, then why can't the solution be something that Qantas does to address the feeling as opposed to the actual numbers.

How about better designed lounges. The current lounges see travellers who travel on their own take up a table and two individual seats on their own (bum on one, bag and papers on other). And those travelling in twos will take up a table designed for 4 people. Also, there could be more noise reducing partitions to dampen the din during peak times and add 'privacy areas' which can give the impression of fewer people. The current open set up reminds me of a cafeteria (a nice one).

Why not have a real pub area ,styled on a real pub. Have wedges served to the side of the bar. Separate it properly with a wall from a quieter lounge area where people can have a coffee and magazine. Then also have a dining area (not lounge chairs) from which food can't be removed from. It can still done fairly up market. Partition these areas properly and you won't have everyone all lining up for beers, then food and then scrounging around for a chair. People would choose the pub area and not venture into the dining or lounge area. If you told people they couldn't eat hot foods in the lounge (only coffee cakes and biscuits), then there wouldn't be so many people who would be keen to pile their plate high and eat it wherever. Finally, the people who just want a comfortable chair and quiet area to read and have a coffee would be able to find a chair much easier....

Just my thoughts... the system is fine. The lounge sizes are fine. The designs and practical use are rubbish.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I agree with kezsco.
Everyone seems to be talking about trying to reduce capacity/entry, when in fact, the TOTAL number of people in the Qantas Frequent Flyer Program is expanding.
I read an article last year that there were 1000 people per day joining the Qantas Frequent Flyer Program. I think membership is around 7 million now. Percentage wise, QC, Gold and Plat members might stay the same, but with more people in the program overall, that means more on each level.

So, as more and more people join and fly, a % of them will either;
- Get paid QC membership (through QF or a corp discount program)
- Become Gold flyers
- Become Platinum flyers
and don't forget, more people might fly J Class too

But the lounge stays the same size?

I also noted last week in the PER DOM QP, it was choc-a-block for about 1 hour. Standing room only. Then 3 flights departed, and it was almost empty.

That's my 2 cents worth

 

[serfty]

I agree with kezsco.
Everyone seems to be talking about trying to reduce capacity/entry, when in fact, the TOTAL number of people in the Qantas Frequent Flyer Program is expanding.
I read an article last year that there were 1000 people per day joining the Qantas Frequent Flyer Program. I think membership is around 7 million now. Percentage wise, QC, Gold and Plat members might stay the same, but with more people in the program overall, that means more on each level. ...

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/travel-news/qantas-aims-eight-million-frequent-22844.html

It's expanding due to the real commercialisation of the "Qantas Frequent Flyer" program. Membership currently costs nothing - until the EDR partnership it was $82.50.

It has been posted here that QFF is changing to a "Frequent Spender scheme".

I don't believe the proportion of those new members who will actually fly enough to reach a status level that incorporates complimentary lounge access will be anywhere near that for those who were already members.

So any increase in those having QP access do to this would be negligible.

 

[medhead]

There are a lot of them though

Dave

I'm sure there are very large number of paid QC members. My gut feeling on their usage of the lounge is as per what Serfty reported. Such low usage must also be a low drain on resources. But the big problem is the totally lack of hard facts on the break up of the membership of the various programs and member types. This makes all discussion on the topic of this thread nothing more than speculation. (I'm happy to speculate, but I realise that it is probably of low worth) The other thing is that paid QC members are clearly profitable otherwise the QC would have been closed down not long after it started.

Exactly! That's how Qantas profits from the QP's. I was told a few years ago by a QP manager that many Paid members fly less than 5 time per year and simply join the QP for access when they do. (Although this information may be rather dated as travelling in J now allows access, back then it did not.)

I would support medhead's idea of guest passes, and the higher the status the more passes, and limiting it to people flying with you.

ejb

The reintroduction of passes wouldn't have to be limited to flying people only. If someone wanted to burn a guest pass on a non flyer then they could.

Yes it is back to the future, but then I'm happy to trade off total guest entitlements for more flexibility in when I can have guests. A pass seems the best way to account for such flexibility.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Bigger or more numerous lounges. Why not add a second lounge in places where one is not big enough.

 

[nlagalle]

Personally if crowding is an issue, make more room. more people are flying now, so naturally more will join QP etc. no point restricting access

 

[drron]

Some interesting thoughts here and well thought out.I even find myself agreeing with medhead-what on earth is the world coming too!:shock:
Great post Kezsco.Just experienced the QF F lounge in Singapore.It felt crowded even though only half the seats were actually occupied.They just have to find a practical rather than an "in" designer.

 

[thewinchester]

I've read this thread with interest, and I'm sure QF is working to get the right balance between all the issues.

To declare my interest, I'm a SFSC who pays for QP access from his own pocket. I have the benefit of membership to a corporate program for State Government employees which gives me access at a discounted annual rate. I won't disclose that rate however, as I might have things thrown at me.

In smaller volume ports, lounge crowds aren't that much of an issue. It's only in the majors (capital city ports) where this has become a real problem at some times of the day.

I commented on another thread that the MEL T1 QP has over 5,000 people pass through its doors a day. While its not the biggest lounge on the network, I've been there at all times of the day and never really struggled to get a seat. I have the same experience with SYD T3.

Having said that, there are limited options for expanding lounges at these ports without massive capital expenditure. I'm sure there's super bean counters and business analysts who weigh up all the issues to determine if it makes economic and passenger sense - and maybe the numbers aren't there yet to justify the required outlays to expand SYD/MEL any further.

For ports however like CBR & PER T2, there is capacity issues. We all know PER T2 is being addressed as we speak, and CBR will no doubt be rectified as part of the major upgrades happening to the terminal.

Also, I don't see the commoditisation of QFF having much of a bearing on lounge occupancy levels. The fact is while there's been tonnes of new members to the program, unless they're accruing points hand over fist they're unlikely to be in the lounge.

And when they are, they're in either the J or F lounges (where available) as they've upgraded their tickets using points, or acquired a full reward ticket on same. And even still, the amount of money paid for their points, a portion of the ticket said points are used for are more than likely fed back into the Lounges balance sheets anyway, because access is publicised as a benefit of flying in that class - so they have to fund it.

Similar has already been mentioned on the subject of frequent travellers, who have a lot of spend with the airlines and there is value to be gained by offering complimentary lounge access to them.

As already mentioned, paid lounge access increases revenue for the airline. I can say that because of the lounge access I have, I'm more likely to fly QF as it gives me an integrated product and comfort level from end to end. My number of flights annually has increased exponentially since joining QP, and while not enough to hit PS (yet), I'm flying an average of 15 sectors a year, mainly domestic. This is a 200% increase on my previous flying patterns just three years ago.

Provision of, expansion, occupancy and access to lounges is always going to be a contentious issue for all concerned. Its about finding balance, and in my personal experience I haven't found this to be much of an issue.

 

[NM]

Well it seems that Qantas does not believe there are too many people in the lounges, so as far as they are concerned they do not need to do anything to reduce the numbers. Look at the current targeted promotion for double SCs to help people reach/retain Gold/Platinum status. If they wanted less FF members with complementary Qantas Club membership, then the double SC promotion would not exist.

 

[medhead]

I have the benefit of membership to a corporate program for State Government employees which gives me access at a discounted annual rate. I won't disclose that rate however, as I might have things thrown at me.

Good point. For the record, any personal corporate scheme rates that I've disclosed here are old to very old rates. So they do not reflect current rates.

 

[Danger]

I think we need to be careful throwing around the world "right". Qantas Club users only have a "right" to be there because Qantas has provided the privillege; they are well within their right to withdraw that privillege (with appropriate notice at anytime).

We're not talking about the UN Charter on Human Rights.

Really, it's a privillege provided by Qantas, not a right, so discussion on withdrawing WP antime access or tightening up guest rules or whatever is, I think, very much relevant to the point.

If we were talking about the Government removing the right to access health care (current issues aside), then I think the word 'right' would be appropriate; here, not so much.

 

[WindowSeat]

Mon 7am and Fri 6pm on any Cityflyer flight can have half the plane as QP/SG/WP just by virtue of regular business flyers travelling.

Outside those times though I've never really had a problem getting a seat. If it's full I usually just get a beer then go to the gate for the last 20 minutes pre boarding. When the QP is full at peak times the gate is normally virtually empty (because everyone on the plane is in the QP).

The reality is that the difference in demand between those couple of huge peak times and the rest of the time (vast majority of the time) is large, so extending the lounge etc is probably unviable.

Totally agree with the comments earlier about lounge design. People travelling alone (many business travellers mentioned above) have no choice but to take up a two-seat area in the QP. Some seating design changes would fix a lot - even the bench areas in BNE & ADL (with the power outlets) make a difference because people will sit next to each other there and not feel intruded upon, but will not sit down opposite someone else around a mini table that has only two seats (with one free).

 

[winfred]

Shouldn't really complain about the no of people in QP. In most of the US lounges I've been to (domestic lounges), they are full with lots of people with no seats at most times.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

It has been posted here that QFF is changing to a "Frequent Spender scheme".

I don't believe the proportion of those new members who will actually fly enough to reach a status level that incorporates complimentary lounge access will be anywhere near that for those who were already members.

Frequent Spender Program, yes.
I was just pointing out, there are more and more people flying now days and inevitably there will be more QC, SG and WP's. I'm pretty sure that there are more QC, SC's and WP's now than there was in 2005, 07,08,09 and there will be more in the years to come.....2012,13,14,15 etc etc....
Example= They are starting direct SYD/MEL-KTA servies soon as they are short of workers here in WA. I'm sure that some of them that might not be a QC or SG tier, but might be in the coming months/years.
Don't forget, QF have been very aggressive in their marketing campaign and all the big 4 banks now have a CC (particularly AMEX branded cards)that is linked to the QFF program in one way or another.

Bigger or more numerous lounges. Why not add a second lounge in places where one is not big enough.

PER has 2 DOM lounges at the moment. Upstairs and downstairs, while the renovations are being carried out.

Personally if crowding is an issue, make more room. more people are flying now, so naturally more will join QP etc. no point restricting access

Yep, expand. But, it should also be noted that sometimes the lounges are at full capacity for only an hour or so. From a QF point of view; is it worth spending $$$ expanding a lounge for a minor inconvenience? I don't know, that's QF's decision.

Winchester put it good, QF have very good integrated product. When l had a paid QC membership, l would fly QF because l had to ability to use the lounge, extra luggage. It worked well. I didn't even bother looking at VirginBlue to be honest.

 

[whereishome]

Frequent Spender Program, yes.
I was just pointing out, there are more and more people flying now days and inevitably there will be more QC, SG and WP's.

I really don't see how anyone is realistically making a connection between people earning points on their groceries and getting into the QC. Seriously.

Now it's my turn to theorise.

Mum & Dad + 2.2 kids (shrinking birthrate).
Total household income income $70k (midway between the highest and lowest rates here : Median household income in Australia and New Zealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Even if they spend ALL their money through a points card (1-1 earn which is unlikely) and spend ALL their money on Woolworths rewards points retailers, they're earning MAX 140k points a year. Of course, this is leaving out the $30 earn threshold at the supermarkets, $60 threshold at the liquor supplies and DSE and so on.

Now - 140k points will get you two return tickets to Japan in Y as a classic reward. No SC earn there.

20.5k points each way will land you BNE-SYD in J as an any seat reward. Even if you booked 6 segments in J like this you would NEVER qualify for silver. Unless you did it a gazillian times to earn lifetime.

So there is NO chance of a casual shopper earner getting into the QP unless :
- They are op upped
- They use 4 years worth of points to buy some J fares
- They buy a QC membership in which case they SHOULD be allowed in the bloody lounge.

 

[Smackbum]

A lot of good points even though most of them have been repeated many times before. Reducing numbers in the lounge is one tactic, but the easy options would have little impact, for example :-

Anytime access for WP is a bit of a joke and could be dropped tomorrow with no impact. Trouble is that it will also have little impact on numbers as there aren't that many scabby WPs (or are there?????)
​

Guest access to non-flyers is also an easy one (what are they doing there if they're not flying with QF?) but again they will account for a very small percentage of users.
​

The next possible cab off the rank is to limit the number of flying guests. I preferred the old scheme (guest passes) because I rarely had a need to guest someone in - but when I did it was usually more than one person. I presume Qantas changed this system because the cards were open to abuse and could be sold by unscrupulous members. I think that technology has provided the answer - simply allocate a number of guests that you can bring in each year and scan boarding passes on entry to all lounges (like they do internationally). There could be "bonus" guests for the various statuses, but basically when you have used them up then that's it until your anniversary.

Would this help over-crowding? Hard to say without knowing the percentage of non-QC members who come through the door. Probably less than 10% so minimal impact again .....

I think the best suggestion so far is the redesign option to make better use of space - as long as people don't mind being packed in like sardines.

 

[k_sheep]

Remember that many people in that QP are probably flying jetstar. Which is why some people (like me) buy QP memberships, and stay at the NB/PS level despite flying fairly often.

I quite like the guest pass idea - most times I'm by myself, but when I am travelling with 2+ friends it'd be good to guest them all in (though I wouldn't subject the FF community to some of my friends in good faith :shock

But even better - expand the lounges, or optimise the current space as others have said. I quite like how the brisbane one goes around corners and has many partitions so it always feels smaller and more private than it is.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Certainly! When I joined in 1994 it was a rectangular area between MEL domestic gates 1 and 3, expanded a year or two later with a semi-circular aspect sticking out over the ramp.

six digit number S????

 

[Mute]

The bulge still exits, the location is now a retail areia with coffee shop nearer the concourse and a bar overlooking the tarmac.

I always wondered what that was, all those hours staring at it from the mel business lounge. :mrgreen: