Travel agent booking fees

[Travel Guru]

A TA may quote you an airfare above the actual airfare, ticket the airfare for the actual fare and keep the difference for themselves and pat themselves on the back and make the point to you that they are not charging you a service fee. Then when you query why the fare quoted and paid for was different to the ticket you are told about extra fuel charges and taxes that apply.
They then take the attitude that as you authorised the fare at the quoted price that is what you pay even if they ticket it cheaper because the quote was accidentally or purposely too high.

So you might make up extreme examples but there are plenty of examples where a TA can make plenty of extra $ from unsuspecting consumers without adequate disclosure requirements. Not by the extremes you have mentioned but by the same tactics.

There are plenty of ways agents make extra commission on bookings that due to nett fares where the gross is way above the agents sell price (determined by the individual agent) would never be discovered the the member of the public, and as an agent, i've seen them all.

Having said that, now that I look from the outside in, having left the industry, I see a sale merely as a business transaction; if we agree on a sell price on a fare to London of $2500 and its costing me $2200 nett, but through another channel I later find through I can buy the fare for $2050, then thats just business.

I would certainly never condone over grossing on airfares, which is completely illegal, but I also wouldn't suggest there should be complete transparency in the industry, after all, its none of my business what Coles is making selling me my orange juice, or what A-Mart is making selling me my joggers, so why should it be anyones business what an agent is making on a booking?

TG

 

[crow]

Having said that, now that I look from the outside in, having left the industry, I see a sale merely as a business transaction; if we agree on a sell price on a fare to London of $2500 and its costing me $2200 nett, but through another channel I later find through I can buy the fare for $2050, then thats just business.

I would certainly never condone over grossing on airfares, which is completely illegal, but I also wouldn't suggest there should be complete transparency in the industry, after all, its none of my business what Coles is making selling me my orange juice, or what A-Mart is making selling me my joggers, so why should it be anyones business what an agent is making on a booking?

TG

I agree if a cheaper fare comes up after you have booked and paid then thats life.
But if you are quoted a fare as the best available fare then pay for it and find out that it was ticketed for a fare less and the agent has pocketed the difference and there is not much you can do about because you have paid the money before you get the ticket and can identify it. That is not just about a transaction.

If you check your receipt from Coles after you have got home and find out that the price you have been charged for your orange juice is more than is on the shelf then generally you are not happy either.

If TA want to charge fee for service then rebate all commissions and charge fee for service. If they want to retail put their markup on every product and go to the market place with that price and sell it.

Instead they want the best of both worlds.

As I have said before Coles don't charge a service fee at the checkout and A-Mart don't charge a service fee for each pair of joggers I try on.

 

[novacatz]

what is this 'best available fare' supposed to mean? is it 'this is the best price that I, the TA, will sell this ticket to you' ... now if it is higher than the qantas fare... ... so what? you were quoted a price. You paid it and you got what you want.

I don't see a problem here.

 

[Travel Guru]

what is this 'best available fare' supposed to mean? is it 'this is the best price that I, the TA, will sell this ticket to you' ... now if it is higher than the qantas fare... ... so what? you were quoted a price. You paid it and you got what you want.

I don't see a problem here.

I definately agree and sympathise with Crow, as what the agent has done is completely unethical, and i'd be spending $100 of time to get back $10 from the agent simply out of principal.

The problem with saying its okay for an agent (and up until recently I was one of the top 21 agents in Australia) is it's not all black and white.

Scenario one, similar to Crows, where Qantas is selling their fare on their website for $1500, and its a gross fare, meaning legally, unless the agent has a separate service charge listed on their invoice, that is the most they can charge for that fare, then if they offer it at $1600 (knowing full well the gross is $1500), they are effectively breaking the law.

The issue is, that only approx 25-30% of fares sold by agents are gross fares, the rest at nett fares, where each ticket consolidator or large agency group individually negotiate a nett rate (which is often the same for all, not withstanding back end payments).

An average markup for an economy long haul ticket is $100-200 per person (depending on the client and their needs), however if you notice on Singapore Airlines website, they will sell the fares at nett plus approx $30, meaning the agent is always going to be more expensive, but they aren't doing anything wrong, anymore more so than fred the fruiterer selling his grapes for $5.99 a kilo is when the grape grower is selling them at $4.29 a kilo (bad analogy I know!)

If you are looking at a nett fare, the agent has free will to mark up the ticket as long as its not over the full Y gross rate (for example on JAL the nett might be $1150, but the gross is likely to be $11000)

I think Crow has a real point, that over grossing is not something that should be accepted, and that they should have it one way or the other, but as mentioned it isn't so black and white that it will apply to all cases, as on nett fares the agent is collecting a markup, not a commission.

Obviously the difficulty for the general public comes in determining what is a gross fare and which are nett fares, however the finger of blame on that confusion can be squarly pointed at the airlines who insist on having gross fares at all.

TG

 

[NM]

... but they aren't doing anything wrong, anymore more so than fred the fruiterer selling his grapes for $5.99 a kilo is when the grape grower is selling them at $4.29 a kilo (bad analogy I know!)

And Penfolds then selling the same grapes (plus some processing and packaging ) for $70 a kilo :shock:

 

[crow]

what is this 'best available fare' supposed to mean? is it 'this is the best price that I, the TA, will sell this ticket to you' ... now if it is higher than the qantas fare... ... so what? you were quoted a price. You paid it and you got what you want.

I don't see a problem here.

If a fare is quoted to you on one basis which you are told is the cheapest way the fare can be constructed (based on the Qantas fare with the same fare basis each way ) but when you subsequently look at your ticket and the fare is constructed differently ( ie one fare basis one way and another the other for a cheaper total fare) and the agent has put the difference between their original quote and the fare on the ticket in their pocket I personally think that is a problem. Especially when you query them and they claim that the difference was extra fuel surcharges etc which it wasn't.

But if it is OK for your mechanic to quote your car repairs based on genuine parts and then use all non-genuine parts to do the job and then charge you the original quote based on genuine parts then it wouldn't be a problem.

Novacatz be sure to advise your mechanic that you think this is OK next time as I am sure he would appreciate it.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

But if it is OK for your mechanic to quote your car repairs based on genuine parts and then use all non-genuine parts to do the job and then charge you the original quote based on genuine parts then it wouldn't be a problem.

I don't think that is a good analogy. With car parts you are receiving different things. With travel you've still got the same flight etc that you asked for.

 

[crow]

I don't think that is a good analogy. With car parts you are receiving different things. With travel you've still got the same flight etc that you asked for.

Fair point.

My point is that if the you are asking the agent to quote the best fare ( at published Qantas prices) and after reassuring you that is the best they can do they subsequently ticket a different cheaper fare construction (at published Qantas prices) and pocket the difference then that is a problem.

You have accepted the original fare based on representations made by the agent which are false. That is the problem.

I thought an agent was there to act on your behalf not take advantage of the situation to line their own pockets.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Fair point.

My point is that if the you are asking the agent to quote the best fare ( at published Qantas prices) and after reassuring you that is the best they can do they subsequently ticket a different cheaper fare construction (at published Qantas prices) and pocket the difference then that is a problem.

You have accepted the original fare based on representations made by the agent which are false. That is the problem.

I thought an agent was there to act on your behalf not take advantage of the situation to line their own pockets.

I don't see what the fuss is when there is a difference between wholesale and retail price. So what if the travel agent can get it cheaper. They are not obligated to pass on savings made in their wholesale rate. No different from many goods and services.

Reading this thread I get the impression the problem some have with this is they didn't realise there are wholesale rates for travel!

 

[crow]

I don't see what the fuss is when there is a difference between wholesale and retail price. So what if the travel agent can get it cheaper. They are not obligated to pass on savings made in their wholesale rate. No different from many goods and services.

Reading this thread I get the impression the problem some have with this is they didn't realise there are wholesale rates for travel!

The fares were all at published Qantas retail prices.(the fare on the original quote and the fare on the ticket). It was a fare that was able to be constructed differently and the agent didn't do it for me only for themselves. They then claimed the excess went to extra fuel surcharges etc.

My problem has nothing to do with wholesale prices.

 

[simongr]

I don't think that is a good analogy. With car parts you are receiving different things. With travel you've still got the same flight etc that you asked for.

Admittedly there might be some differing restrictions if the fare is constructed differently.

 

[simongr]

I agree if a cheaper fare comes up after you have booked and paid then thats life.
But if you are quoted a fare as the best available fare then pay for it and find out that it was ticketed for a fare less and the agent has pocketed the difference and there is not much you can do about because you have paid the money before you get the ticket and can identify it. That is not just about a transaction.

If you check your receipt from Coles after you have got home and find out that the price you have been charged for your orange juice is more than is on the shelf then generally you are not happy either.

Its completely different. The price charged to you was the same as originally quoted. the difference is how much margin they made. A TA could quote you the "bst possible price" knowing that if they quote high and you take it they make a motza - but they know also that they could sell the product later and make an acceptable margin even if they have to discount the fare.

The comparison would be Coles advertising tomaotoes at $1 a can as "tehir best possible price" - if coles then find they can source tomatoes cheaper - by your reckoning they should pass on that price reduction.

Personally I have to use a TA - but I am now a semi-un-official TA for the business as the global head honchos are now using DONE4 tix for their travel to save money

 

[Tiki]

The other thing that annoys me is when they want the booking fee per person. Why is it more work to create a PNR for 2, 3 or 4 people than 1 person? Needless to say, I am avoiding TA's like the plague, I only use them if there is no way to do it myself online.

 

[Travel Guru]

The other thing that annoys me is when they want the booking fee per person. Why is it more work to create a PNR for 2, 3 or 4 people than 1 person? Needless to say, I am avoiding TA's like the plague, I only use them if there is no way to do it myself online.

I guess the thing is tiki, if you look at domestic travel, its as much about charging a sufficient service charge in order to make taking on the risk of booking worthwhile.

While it might not take much more time to book 4 pax over 1 pax, you're talking about the agent taking on a much higher financial risk from taking the booking, which simply wouldn't be worthwhile.

There will always be a place for agents, for many time poor clients who haven't got time to trawl the internet looking for a good deal, they will always be more than happy to pay whatever service charge their agent is charging in order that they can invest their time into something more productive.

In the end though, if you can do it yourself and your time is worth less than the agents service charge then why book through an agent.

TG

 

[serfty]

... In the end though, if you can do it yourself and your time is worth less than the agents service charge then why book through an agent. ...

I think Tiki recently had an experience with a TA back in November that would put most people off.

See here: AA won't hold RTW bookings more than 21 days.

OK, you guys won't believe this! The TA has read this forum and doesn't want to do the booking because of all the hard work and research I have put into this purchase. I mean what kind of idiot plans a $8500 purchase and DOESN'T do any research? ....

This sounds ridiculous.Your TA is getting their commission for very little effort because of the work you have put into it.Seems that they must have got their nose out of joint.Give them another chance.

Nope, you didn't see the email they sent me. They aren't worth another chance. I just wish I could do this on the internet since I obviously know more about this fare than they do. ...

 

[Tiki]

I'm not a domestic traveller at all and if I was, those flights are a piece of cake to book online. I'm talking about our annual overseas holidays which I put heaps of research into. The 2 RTW tickets are worth $8880 and I am holding direct bookings on AA.

Good memory Serfty, and I have yet to meet a TA who hasn't managed to screw up one of my bookings. The one I booked the Egypt tickets with screwed up one of the segments, spent a week going back and forth with KU to get the right date back. During this time (caused by THEIR mistake), there was a currency fluctuation and they tried to ding me for an extra $20 in fuel fines. I ripped her a new one and got it for the original quote, I wasn't going to be out of pocket $20 when SHE made the mistake!

 

[hmc]

I just spotted this publication on the ACCC's website - thought it might shed some light on the legalities of the pricing issue:

Price advertising and the travel industry

 

[Kremmen]

BTW, I don't use accountants. I file my own taxes using E-Tax on the ATO website, usually right on 1 July so I can get my refund asap! :mrgreen:

I use a tax accountant partly because he knows what he's doing and partly so that my taxes can be lodged as late as possible and I can pay my bill as late as possible.

However, the comparison is reasonable. The more I give him to do and the more I use his knowledge, the more he charges. I like it that way. I think it's relevant to note that in the financial services industry, both models exist. There's choice of FFS or commission. In travel, we don't have choice.

So if they are charging a fixed fee, then make the itinerary complex and get better value for money .

The more complex the itinerary, the more likely the TA will screw it up. If I could charge them for their mistakes, then I'd make a fortune!

we all know that some real estate agents ... Why is all this discussion on travel agents like it is a big deal?

Let's see: I use a travel agent to buy something new for me 20 times as often as I do a real estate agent. Maybe that could be it?

the reason that financial planners have to disclose ALL fees and commissions is because the dishonest behaviour of a few(?) was tainting the whole industry. They would basically promote products not on their merit but by how much commission they could get

I see TAs as pretty similar. While the deception is smaller in magnitude, it is far more common. TAs almost constantly overcharge on fees and taxes. And in two ways: The fee or tax itself may be incorrect (eg. charging the international GB tax when a flight is from the EU to LHR and the lower EU version should be applied) or the fee/tax quote may be for an amount significantly more than that actually appearing on the ticket.

 

[crow]

With respect to my experiences with a particular agent after contacting the franchise manager of the agent I dealt with who did not care, complaining to AFTA about a breach of their code of ethics by one of their members ( and getting no response from them whatsoever however I know they contacted the agent as the agent took the time to make the point to me that AFTA's code of ethics had no legal jursidiction in a court of law) and contacting Qantas who did not care I lodged a complaint with the Office of Business & Consumer Affairs.

After supplying them with the relevant documentation their investigation resulted in the agent refunding my money that they had charged inappropriately within a week.

Lesson learned is there is no self regulation in the industry at all. Forget about the "honesty and integrity" in travel of AFTA members. They don't even acknowledge a complaint.

If you have a problem go straight to consumer affairs.