Travelling for Work [Ethics] Question

[NM]

If I travel in economy then I expect time to recover (after a long-haul flight and especially is overnight and/or across timezones). If I travel in business class then I understand there may be an expectation that I will be ready to operate very soon after arrival - whenever that may be.

But current company travel policy is economy/coach only, so I expect recovery time. My next trip requires me to be in a different timezone for meetings on a certain day. So I am traveling such that I arrive with 1.5 days to "recover" rather than leaving a day later and just having an overnight recovery before working. For the return trip, I will arrive home mid afternoon after traveling 20+ hours. I expect I will check emails for anything urgent, then spend the evening with family and be ready for normal work start time the following morning.

 

[QF1]

Option 2/3/4 depending on the situation. If there is something urgent that would take priority. Unless there is something urgent, going to work tired after travelling very long is unethical as far as I am concerned.

 

[Fantic125]

Option 2/3/4 depending on the situation. If there is something urgent that would take priority. Unless there is something urgent, going to work tired after travelling very long is unethical as far as I am concerned.

It really does depend on the individual and the circumstances.

When I travel to the company head office in Germany, I'll arrive in FRA then usually drive or take the train for the 2 hour trip to the town where head office is located, check in, have a shower, get some lunch then go into work for a few hours. I find that helps me get into the new time zone routine quicker than if I took the rest of the day off.
Coming home from Germany is different though; I regularly take the day off after I arrive back.

However, if I'm just doing a quick 1 or 2 day trip into Asia then usually I'll go into work the next day.

 

[markis10]

Its a good question, and no doubt there are many answers. For me I generally travel at a time thats a compromise between the cheapest flight and my need for sleep, that excludes red eyes ex DRW for instance, which means work either send me home with half a day of work or complete work and stay the night.

 

[Berlin]

I would get my manager's approval to "work" from home and check my emails two three times during that day in case there's anything urgent.

 

[Muzfly]

You've obviously never have jobs where you have special skills. When that's the case, you tend to be able to dictate more how you work. It's not to say that I don't travel in my own time when needed (and in fact have done so multiple times this year), however it's my preference to not do so. I work to live, not live to work. I suggest you all do the same.

FWIW, I work in the private sector. Always have, always will.

Well excuse me..... Please re-read what I said. Its all about flexibility. Its certainly not about staff dictating what they will or will not do. Nor I hasn't to add (again) its not about management running a sweat shop. We fly technicians constantly between AUS/NZ/RSA & India they go when they have to go. Not when they feel like it. If your a client with a $2 million machine not working you want the tech there now. Oh yes, and we're talking about very highly specialised people... As for working to live etc, no one is expecting anyone to live to work. In the same was its all about flexibility, its also all about balance. Now you may be the world's top operator in whatever special skill you have, but (and I'll apologise in advance if I've misunderstood you) you are coming across to me, as someone who is inflexible and wont go the extra mile for those who employ you..... but, if you can get away with it? Good luck to you.

 

[Moopere]

Its certainly not about staff dictating what they will or will not do. Nor I hasn't to add (again) its not about management running a sweat shop. We fly technicians constantly between AUS/NZ/RSA & India they go when they have to go.

Sounds pretty dictatorial from management to me. Do these poor techs get a day off when they return from where "they have to go"? Whats the staff turnover like?

Customers always want a resolution to their problems within an hour. Sometimes you can do that, sometimes you'd break your people to get it done, sometimes said people are happy enough to be abused because the remuneration is perceived (by them) to be high enough to withstand almost any sort of abuse.

In many cases I've found that managing customer expectations to what can reasonably be achieved ends with happy long term clients and long serving happy staff.

 

[anat0l]

Well excuse me..... Please re-read what I said. Its all about flexibility. Its certainly not about staff dictating what they will or will not do. Nor I hasn't to add (again) its not about management running a sweat shop. We fly technicians constantly between AUS/NZ/RSA & India they go when they have to go. Not when they feel like it. If your a client with a $2 million machine not working you want the tech there now. Oh yes, and we're talking about very highly specialised people... As for working to live etc, no one is expecting anyone to live to work. In the same was its all about flexibility, its also all about balance. Now you may be the world's top operator in whatever special skill you have, but (and I'll apologise in advance if I've misunderstood you) you are coming across to me, as someone who is inflexible and wont go the extra mile for those who employ you..... but, if you can get away with it? Good luck to you.

Sheesh...call off the dogs:!: Your apology is greatly accepted!

Your accusation appears incongruous with the remark by Flashware

You've obviously never have jobs where you have special skills. When that's the case, you tend to be able to dictate more how you work. It's not to say that I don't travel in my own time when needed (and in fact have done so multiple times this year), however it's my preference to not do so. I work to live, not live to work. I suggest you all do the same.

Having known Flashware personally, I know that he's not the stubborn, inflexible "my way or highway" pretentious clod you make him out to be.

I think both of you are pretty much advocating the same thing, so chill.

 

[drewbles]

Sheesh...call off the dogs:!: Your apology is greatly accepted!

Your accusation appears incongruous with the remark by Flashware


Having known Flashware personally, I know that he's not the stubborn, inflexible "my way or highway" pretentious clod you make him out to be.

I think both of you are pretty much advocating the same thing, so chill.

Do we both know the same Flashware?

I jest. I have no problems travelling during my own time for long-haul travel and am quite happy to jet out Friday night or Saturday for a trip, providing i'm not expected to work the day I arrive nor the Sunday (if a USA trip) and they pay for the hotels. I have a problem where travel *must* be on personal time. It's about give and take. My employer is super flexible, and if I arrive home at 5am from LHR or LAX, I'm not expected in the office that day. I usually do, as it helps me adjust to home time, but it's definitely not expected of me.

 

[Flashback]

Oh. I forgot to mention. Economy only. And they have international travel. MEL to JNB(via PER or SYD) and AKL.

And then I run into Michael Malone, several times, in J on QF mid-week PER-SYD. Talk about one policy for the workers and another for those 'above' them.

Indeed. I flew PER-SIN-LHR with MM in J 2-3 months ago. He sure wasn't flying whY

Well excuse me..... Please re-read what I said. Its all about flexibility. Its certainly not about staff dictating what they will or will not do. Nor I hasn't to add (again) its not about management running a sweat shop. We fly technicians constantly between AUS/NZ/RSA & India they go when they have to go. Not when they feel like it. If your a client with a $2 million machine not working you want the tech there now. Oh yes, and we're talking about very highly specialised people... As for working to live etc, no one is expecting anyone to live to work. In the same was its all about flexibility, its also all about balance. Now you may be the world's top operator in whatever special skill you have, but (and I'll apologise in advance if I've misunderstood you) you are coming across to me, as someone who is inflexible and wont go the extra mile for those who employ you..... but, if you can get away with it? Good luck to you.

Well I was going to reply to this.....

Sheesh...call off the dogs:!: Your apology is greatly accepted!

Your accusation appears incongruous with the remark by Flashware

Having known Flashware personally, I know that he's not the stubborn, inflexible "my way or highway" pretentious clod you make him out to be.

I think both of you are pretty much advocating the same thing, so chill.

... but anat0l responded perfectly. I'm quite the opposite to what you are depicting from your reading between the lines. I constantly go above the mark of what is required both in terms of travel flexibility and work flexibility (what the heck is a 40 hour week? ) and that is where I am where I am. The point I'm making, is that it's preference to travel during work hours and most people should demand the same (where it works). However as a project I worked on just recently shown, that wasn't, so I was often travelling out Sunday night (hotel provided) and then back on Friday night, not getting home till 10pm. Add to that doing 12-14+ hour days in between and I think that's pretty darn flexible.

Do we both know the same Flashware?

I jest. I have no problems travelling during my own time for long-haul travel and am quite happy to jet out Friday night or Saturday for a trip, providing i'm not expected to work the day I arrive nor the Sunday (if a USA trip) and they pay for the hotels. I have a problem where travel *must* be on personal time. It's about give and take. My employer is super flexible, and if I arrive home at 5am from LHR or LAX, I'm not expected in the office that day. I usually do, as it helps me adjust to home time, but it's definitely not expected of me.

Long haul is a little different I think. Given the length of travel it's unavoidable to travel in your own time. As you rightly say though, either arrive early with enough time to recover (whY) or fly J. Agree also with heading in on arrival (where you feel up to it) but certainly shouldn't be expected to carry on, if you do feel tiredness coming on. That's pretty much simple OH&S there!

 

[Flashback]

Just another note to add also : this is a "perfect world" idea and relates to those on an annual salary. As a consultant it's not such a problem as you charge for the hours in which you are engaged.

 

[Muzfly]

Sounds pretty dictatorial from management to me. Do these poor techs get a day off when they return from where "they have to go"? Whats the staff turnover like?

Customers always want a resolution to their problems within an hour. Sometimes you can do that, sometimes you'd break your people to get it done, sometimes said people are happy enough to be abused because the remuneration is perceived (by them) to be high enough to withstand almost any sort of abuse.

In many cases I've found that managing customer expectations to what can reasonably be achieved ends with happy long term clients and long serving happy staff.

To answer the points you've raised...

1. Yes Customers always want resolutions quickly. We provide this which is why we lead our field.
2. Techs get the day and the day after they return off.
3. Techs fly Prem Econ where available.
4. Techs get a flying allowance per hour when in transit.
5. Very low staff turn-over. Techs come to us to work for us, so I guess that speaks for itself.
6. We do not run a sweat-shop, nor do we pay peanuts. Anyone who does is an idiot.
7. Managing customer expectations is easy. Give them the very best service you can. We are a service industry, its what we sell.

 

[JohnK]

Well excuse me..... Please re-read what I said. Its all about flexibility. Its certainly not about staff dictating what they will or will not do. Nor I hasn't to add (again) its not about management running a sweat shop. We fly technicians constantly between AUS/NZ/RSA & India they go when they have to go. Not when they feel like it. If your a client with a $2 million machine not working you want the tech there now. Oh yes, and we're talking about very highly specialised people...

I think you will find most employees are flexible but want fair compensation.

Many years ago I travelled on Easter Sunday, worked Easter Monday and arrived back Friday morning which was also Anzac day. I asked for and received 3 days off in lieu which I felt was fair compensation. This was negotiated before I accepted the trip. Anything less and I would not have gone.