Turkish Airlines Approved for More Flights into Australia

[justinbrett]

I would say codesharing on Rex and continuing to interline on QF would tick all the boxes for TK.

That article included a quote from TK CEO referencing the existing deal with QF.

 

[evanb]

I would say codesharing on Rex and continuing to interline on QF would tick all the boxes for TK.

That article included a quote from TK CEO referencing the existing deal with QF.

For what it's worth, Rex have no existing codeshares. They've only recently managed to get the DL arrangement onto interline (there were some significantly delays).

 

[evanb]

There’s a difference between interlining and selling the flights directly.

As far as I’m aware QR no longer sells any QF flights.

QF still sells UA flights directly last time I checked. It also sells HA. I’m not sure about DL, I haven’t seen that. It obviously sells AA & AS.

It’s not quite a codeshare but it’s a step above interlining.

I'm not quire sure what you're referring to? As in QR won't sell you a QF interline on their website and/or ticket stock?

They certainly do, however there are routes where they favour a VA connection over a QF. I've just looked and they certainly offer QF interline connections via their own website and ticket stock, but they favour VA is there is a VA option. On routes where VA isn't available, they will sell QF.

Within the IATA framework you cannot interline with a carrier but block it from your ticket stock. You can certainly favour other options through your own distribution platforms, but you can't block it from being ticketing on your ticket stock. It'll be up to the distribution platform to do that.

 

[tmdl]

Discussions have apparently taken place between Turkish and Rex, as they explore options for a domestic partnership.

Turkish Airlines explores partnership with Rex

TK is putting together the pieces for its entry into Australia skies.

www.executivetraveller.com

This is great news for Rex.

Now all they need is the ability to redeem points with DL & TK and they will already have a decent network and some interest into their program

 

[HS-TQE]

Going slightly OT, REX could also aim for VN and/or TG as their South East Asian partners.

Back On-Topic, I think the timing of a potential future TK/ZL partnership could be in line with future PER flights out of MEL and/or SYD in Q4 2024 at the earliest (if not later).

 

[elanshin]

This is great news for Rex.

Now all they need is the ability to redeem points with DL & TK and they will already have a decent network and some interest into their program

I feel though without outside investment (maybe DL or TK will) , they would always be an extremely junior partner. I highly doubt we'll see any partnership in Rex's current form that would see them being able to see redemption.

 

[justinbrett]

I'm not quire sure what you're referring to? As in QR won't sell you a QF interline on their website and/or ticket stock?

They certainly do, however there are routes where they favour a VA connection over a QF. I've just looked and they certainly offer QF interline connections via their own website and ticket stock, but they favour VA is there is a VA option. On routes where VA isn't available, they will sell QF.

Within the IATA framework you cannot interline with a carrier but block it from your ticket stock. You can certainly favour other options through your own distribution platforms, but you can't block it from being ticketing on your ticket stock. It'll be up to the distribution platform to do that.

OK I thought QR stopped selling all QF flights but you’ve proved me wrong.

But plenty of interline partners won’t sell the flights on their own websites - you have to book with a third party if you want it. Ie QF and SQ are interline partners and I don’t believe either sells each others flights directly.

Point being, an interline agreement isn’t anything special.

Sidenote, VA must be a bit pissed QR are still selling QF flights.

 

[dajop]

. Ie QF and SQ are interline partners and I don’t believe either sells each others flights directly.

it takes some effort to find them (using multi sector tool) but QF does sell SQ flights.

But don’t think you’ll find QF flights on the SQ website.

 

[evanb]

OK I thought QR stopped selling all QF flights but you’ve proved me wrong.

But plenty of interline partners won’t sell the flights on their own websites - you have to book with a third party if you want it. Ie QF and SQ are interline partners and I don’t believe either sells each others flights directly.

Point being, an interline agreement isn’t anything special.

Sidenote, VA must be a bit pissed QR are still selling QF flights.

Why would VA be pissed? They don't have a JV - they cannot coordinate in any way. QR buy capacity on VA flights and then price that capacity however they wish. VA get the price that's been agreed. If QR don't price it the way VA would want, then they can go and change their price or get a JV.

Agreed, interlines are not special. They are the rule, rather than the exception. It simply allows two flights to be on the same ticket, and thus the connection being protected and baggage connected. It is not a partnership of any sorts. It simply means that the airlines have activated the mechanisms for the GDS systems to combine the flights and have agreed to stock standard terms under which IROPS are handled and money is settled through IATA. They don't control any capacity or pricing.

It does appear that people are seeing interlines more and more of a partnership these days, but I suspect that's because there have been some noticeable dust-ups (e.g., AA and DL cancelling their interline). At the same time, the public have greater access to seeing inventory and ticket combinations and have a greater appreciation for the options. In a previous era, only the travel agents saw and were limited by the lack of interoperability of GDSs. But they are not really a partnership since it doesn't involve any coordination, particularly of capacity and pricing.

 

[justinbrett]

Why would VA be pissed?

Are you new to petty airline politics? It’s everywhere.

 

[Tiki]

Being able to redeem VA on TK would be amazing!

 

[HS-TQE]

Being able to redeem VA on TK would be amazing!

Per the provided link, and the current discussions I'd think REX (ZL) is the leading candidate at this stage as TK's codeshare partner.

 

[evanb]

Are you new to petty airline politics? It’s everywhere.

Having spent my career in the business, I'm well aware of it. However, the petty politics at the senior level doesn't often spillover quite as much at the operational level where practicality generally overrides it.

For what it's worth, VA have interlines with 35 carriers (according to what my GDS is telling me). QF interline with 32 of those 35. This includes all those that VA codeshare with or what we would consider to be VA's "close partners". The only airlines VA have an exclusive interline with are FC, JD, and 3U.

 

[Tiki]

Per the provided link, and the current discussions I'd think REX (ZL) is the leading candidate at this stage as TK's codeshare partner.

Not so easy to get Rex points if your major source is Flybuys for VA and Woolies for QF.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Teaming up with Rex would be a win for passengers… if you’re connecting you really don’t want to be faced with hours of delays or cancellations. VA is currently running at double the cancellations of QF, and multiples of Rex.

 

[justinbrett]

Having spent my career in the business, I'm well aware of it. However, the petty politics at the senior level doesn't often spillover quite as much at the operational level where practicality generally overrides it.

For what it's worth, VA have interlines with 35 carriers (according to what my GDS is telling me). QF interline with 32 of those 35. This includes all those that VA codeshare with or what we would consider to be VA's "close partners". The only airlines VA have an exclusive interline with are FC, JD, and 3U.

But again, having an interline agreement is one thing, offering connecting flights on the rival airline through your own website is quite another.

I imagine QF would be pissed if AA sold connections on to VA flights (noting they don’t have an interline agreement, but let’s say they did)

 

[evanb]

But again, having an interline agreement is one thing, offering connecting flights on the rival airline through your own website is quite another.

I imagine QF would be pissed if AA sold connections on to VA flights (noting they don’t have an interline agreement, but let’s say they did)

You're making a range of assumptions regarding revenue management and distribution networks that are stylised towards a normative view of what you want it to be rather than what is actually is.

Partnerships are not all or nothing. QF interline with UA and DL, and sell connections on these airlines directly. AA don't have a childish fight over it. I'm sure AA look at it as a situation as one where QF use these since AA don't provide a comparable option. Rather than loose the pax directly to UA or DL, they accept that's it's something that QF need, and what's good for QF is good for AA (QF is somewhat of the senior partner given their relative trans Pacific capacity). Maybe QF need to offer that to satisfy other distribution needs (maybe corporate contracts, maybe distributor incentives, etc). Unless one actually knows why and what engagement they may have had over it, then you're making assumption with no knowledge of their revenue management and distribution networks.

If QR having an interline or more with QF were bothering VA that much then they could/should make the removal of it a condition of their own partnership with QR. They don't because they likely consider QR's codeshare and partnership a huge benefit to them. Also, QR is the senior partner and just like the example above, they likely have network and distribution needs that VA cannot fulfil. At the same time, you have no idea regarding the arrangement that QR and VA have. What margins and terms do they provide QR capacity at? Given how VA have gone into bat for QR, it suggests that the terms are very generous. Generous enough to the extent that they couldn't give a damn what QR do where VA cannot satisfy QR's needs? Seems likely. If VA cannot provide it, then it's still in VA's interest to have that traffic on QR rather than it going directly to QF and EK. Being pissed at QR for then using an interline and selling it directly to satisfy those needs (that VA themselves cannot fulfil) is the type of behaviour that cost VA dearly first time round.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Partnerships are not all or nothing. QF interline with UA and DL, and sell connections on these airlines directly. AA don't have a childish fight over it. .

Indeed. Take April for example, SYD-PHX booking via the Qantas website, business class. Multiple connections offered via LAX and DFW with QF/AA connections, but also multiple connections offered via SFO and LAX with QF connecting to UA.

QF codeshares on AA metal appear as the first options, but the hard-coded UA flights actually show before AA flights.

 

[justinbrett]

You're making a range of assumptions regarding revenue management and distribution networks that are stylised towards a normative view of what you want it to be rather than what is actually is.

Partnerships are not all or nothing. QF interline with UA and DL, and sell connections on these airlines directly. AA don't have a childish fight over it. I'm sure AA look at it as a situation as one where QF use these since AA don't provide a comparable option. Rather than loose the pax directly to UA or DL, they accept that's it's something that QF need, and what's good for QF is good for AA (QF is somewhat of the senior partner given their relative trans Pacific capacity). Maybe QF need to offer that to satisfy other distribution needs (maybe corporate contracts, maybe distributor incentives, etc). Unless one actually knows why and what engagement they may have had over it, then you're making assumption with no knowledge of their revenue management and distribution networks.

If QR having an interline or more with QF were bothering VA that much then they could/should make the removal of it a condition of their own partnership with QR. They don't because they likely consider QR's codeshare and partnership a huge benefit to them. Also, QR is the senior partner and just like the example above, they likely have network and distribution needs that VA cannot fulfil. At the same time, you have no idea regarding the arrangement that QR and VA have. What margins and terms do they provide QR capacity at? Given how VA have gone into bat for QR, it suggests that the terms are very generous. Generous enough to the extent that they couldn't give a damn what QR do where VA cannot satisfy QR's needs? Seems likely. If VA cannot provide it, then it's still in VA's interest to have that traffic on QR rather than it going directly to QF and EK. Being pissed at QR for then using an interline and selling it directly to satisfy those needs (that VA themselves cannot fulfil) is the type of behaviour that cost VA dearly first time round.

You’ve returned the point I made originally.

Just because an airline interlines with another, that doesn’t mean there’s a close alliance. There’s a whole spectrum of agreements which have been discussed in subsequent posts.

 

[yachty]

Aren't they going for SIN? SYD <> SIN <> IST was the proposed route until they get aircrafts that could do SYD <> IST direct.

They announced that, but Singapore's aviation regulator says they've had nothing filed to the effect yet. Bit of a theme with TK...

No application from Turkish Airlines for planned S’pore-Australia flights, says CAAS

This is despite the Istanbul-based carrier going public with plans to fly from Istanbul to Australia with a layover in S'pore. Read more at straitstimes.com.

www.straitstimes.com