TV's worst TV show looks into LCC

[drron]

As I said previously this is standard.BA quoted 8-12 weeks for a refund on money they had held for 4 months and I'm talking~10K not a LCC domestic ticket.

 

[anat0l]

The problem with many people is that they fly LCCs and expect they will get a full cost service.

Most people already have a very distorted view of what constitutes "minimum" service with full cost carriers (thanks to the media and our very balk-worthy customer protectionism environment), so when they fly LCCs they very, very mistakenly assume the same level of service. Most common are the excuses when one "doesn't abide by the rules" and then wails that the airline isn't being reasonable to reaccommodate them.

Then again, we've heard various TT complaints on this forum (not only in the papers); whether it is more or less than other LCCs, let alone other full cost carriers, in this country or otherwise, is a whole different matter. As said, that doesn't necessarily condone that any practices are satisfactory (i.e. sometimes it's no good just comparing yourself to the next person), but what should be dictated as minimum standards?

P.S. I had a refund from QF processed once. It took 4 weeks, but they did tell me it could take about that time.

 

[mcflyer]

The problem with many people is that they fly LCCs and expect they will get a full cost service.

I've flown no frills before - I've flown Aeroflot pre-Yeltsin in planes without heating in the middle of winter and a regional airline whose name I forget in Indonesia way back in the 70s. I've flown Easyjet in Europe and Jetstar here. And in the US. We flew Aeroflot as individuals and booked with Intourist ourselves and we've dined out on that saga. TT's booking and pre-flight service is the online equivalent. And, I'm sure the cabin crew will be fine and the aeroplanes are relatively new. And you have to pay inflated prices for sandwhiches andd who'd drink the coffee if it were free anyway.

It's the service over the net that's not up to scratch, low cost or not....

 

[NM]

The delays in returning fares is deliberate and part of a business model. It is to stop people purchasing, then chopping and changing deliberately and at will. This has the potential of bogging down the support side of the business to such a degree that it become unworkable.

And if they provided instant refunds, their yield management process would be unworkable. Imagine these few scenarios:

• I book one cheap restricted ticket and two fully flexible, refundable tickets for the same flight and in different names and pre-allocate three seats together (say A, B, C). I check-in for the the flight using the cheap ticket. Then after check-in closes I call and cancel the two fully refundable tickets and have a block of three seats to myself. If I have to wait 8 weeks for the refund, that process is much less attractive. But if an instant refund is available, its cost me nothing.
• I am not certain exactly when my business meeting will finish. I know the Friday afternoon flights are always full, so I book a seat on the 3pm, 4pm, 5pm, 6pm and 7pm flights. Then when I get to the airport I check-in for the flight that suits me and cancel the others and get a full refund. Again, not so attractive if I have to wait 8 weeks for the refund.

due to such possibilities of abusive, the airlines have been forced to manage the process by delaying refunds. It unfortunate that we all suffer a common process even if our intentions are genuine.

 

[anat0l]

And if they provided instant refunds, their yield management process would be unworkable. Imagine these few scenarios:

<snip>

due to such possibilities of abusive, the airlines have been forced to manage the process by delaying refunds. It unfortunate that we all suffer a common process even if our intentions are genuine.

I used to work in the service industry. Some customers are reasonable, but many are all about "me, me and only me", so they hardly care about the underlying business model and operating principles and only about "my refund". (read at Harvey Norman: I don't care that I don't know how to use it and I've completely destroyed the packaging and have no receipt, give me my money back or I'll sue you for violating the Trade Practices Act.)

 

[Flashback]

I used to work for an ISP and payment runs were done once a month, generally with no exceptions. So if you were waiting for a refund it wouldn't be until that payment run.

I would expect this is to reduce costs and wouldn't be surprised if TT were doing the same (for refunds only as payments seem to happen in realtime).

 

[JohnK]

The problem with many people is that they fly LCCs and expect they will get a full cost service.

I know not to expect anything with LCCs and only book them if I have no realistic alternative.

I can't forget the 2 Aegean Airlines flights I had back in August 2007. I turned up to ATH airport 2 hours before the flight, checked-in and then waited at the bar until it was time to board. Got through security and went to the gate and waited and waited with no announcements. Finally 45 minutes after scheduled take off and 10 minutes before the next flight scheduled take off we were advised that the other flight was cancelled and we left ~15 minutes after the other flight was due to leave anyway. It is quite obvious that they merged 2 flights but did it in a sneaky way.

For the return flight from SKG again got to the airport 2 hours before the flight and went to check-in only to be told that my flight was cancelled and they will put me on the next flight which would mean around 3 hours wait. I asked to be put on the earlier flight, which was nowhere near capacity, and was told that my ticket conditions did not allow to be put on an earlier flight? Ticket conditions? Surely they are joking.

So I ended up with 2 flights and 2 cancellations and reasonably poor customer service on both occasions. The flight cancellation was their fault, not mine, and I was the one that was inconvenienced. In my opinion I should have been put on the earlier flight when they cancelled the service at a late stage.

I will more than likely book another return flight for 2 people with them in August/September as there is not much alternative and I have absolutely no expectation that they will get me to the destination on time. Only problem I see is that the current cheap airfares on the day I want to travel are OK but if one of the flights is cancelled we could be waiting at the airport for 3-4 hours as the off-peak flights are the cheapest available and the more regular flights are quite expensive for that route.

 

[dajop]

Why is that with airlines people expect the world, even though they are getting cheap fares?

If staying at hotels the expectation and the actual experience vastly differ depending on whether you stay at a Formulae 1, an Ibis or the Sofitel. Same with airlines, if you fly Tiger you get Formulae 1 style service. If fly Qantas in F, you get Sofitel service or better .... well you should anyway.

Ditto with retail, I am sure there are many analogies there as well.

For the record, I do not and have not ever worked in the airline industry, nor do I have any association with Tiger. However, even though I am not a big fan of their style of operation, I do defend their right to run their business as they see fit. It is a market economy in which we will live and ultimately the market (ie us consumers) will decide whether what they are trying to do and the level of service they are or are not providing is acceptable.

Where I do have problems is the carriers who pretend to be full service (and not talking about "new world" carriers either) start doing things the no frills carriers are doing, and yet still charge like a full service carrier, but I'm sure that's a different thread.

 

[straitman]

Why is that with airlines people expect the world, even though they are getting cheap fares?

If staying at hotels the expectation and the actual experience vastly differ depending on whether you stay at a Formulae 1, an Ibis or the Sofitel. Same with airlines, if you fly Tiger you get Formulae 1 style service. If fly Qantas in F, you get Sofitel service or better .... well you should anyway.

Ditto with retail, I am sure there are many analogies there as well.

For the record, I do not and have not ever worked in the airline industry, nor do I have any association with Tiger. However, even though I am not a big fan of their style of operation, I do defend their right to run their business as they see fit. It is a market economy in which we will live and ultimately the market (ie us consumers) will decide whether what they are trying to do and the level of service they are or are not providing is acceptable.

Where I do have problems is the carriers who pretend to be full service (and not talking about "new world" carriers either) start doing things the no frills carriers are doing, and yet still charge like a full service carrier, but I'm sure that's a different thread.

dajop,

Very well put, thank you.

 

[mcflyer]

Flew TT over Easter without any problems. The holding pen for arrivals at Tullamarine is a disgrace to the industry and don't tell me Virgin used it at start-up - it was no less disgraceful a cattle-yard then. Departures is like a country regional terminal and there is a cafe and a newsagent. The cafe toasted sandwhich on Sunday was stale and the coffee awful. But no real complaints about Tiger there.

Flights in the new equipment were comfortable notwithstanding the seat pitch [I'm short so not a problem, but my son would suffer....] and cabin crew cheerful as were the check-in staff. I didn't hang around to see what happened at 45 minutes [I was too busy being frisked because my artificial hip sets off the metal detectors and the card my surgeon has given me might as well be a bit of toilet paper for all the notice that is taken of it, but that's another issue.]

The flights were on time.

If there's a symbol of what is wrong with Tiger it is the Melbourne arrivals pen [I won't dignify it with the term, "Terminal"]. No company that values its customers would present them with that experience [thank goodness it was not too cold! and I didn't need to use the portable toilets].

But, then, a company that valued its customers would have onshore staff, at least a 1300 number, and you could contact them easily to sort out problems.

I won't use them again primarily for that reason. I am not impressed that even when they take the trouble to ring me, which they did to give them their due [I had made a fuss], I am talking to someone in Singapore, or at best, from Singapore. A second but equally important reason would be that - while the flights were on time - that if anything did go wrong I would be stranded because TT's flight operation to the Sunshine Coast is not always daily AND it's only one flight a day when they do fly.

One accepts that this is a low cost carrier, but no frills does not mean skimping on basic passenger service for even if you are paying less than other companies [and that is not always the case with basic Tiger fares or after after all the add-ons] you are still paying and it's a rather silly way of doing business to not look after your customers because they don't bring the dollars to you the next time they travel. As I won't be doing!