Uber drivers at CNS routinely cancelling rides to manipulate surge pricing

[Pigg]

The lower tier Ubers drivers don't. They won't be the ones cancelling as they don't have visibility into the likely length of ride. The ones who are cancelling are those with visibility about the length of the trip and general direction of destination. These are the Uber gold and Diamond drivers. Though they have to maintain a <3% cancellation rate on a rolling month

Gold/Diamond don't cancel, that's why they are Gold/Diamond! Jeeze.

 

[Pigg]

So how do drivers who aren't "top drivers" know what sort of trip they're cancelling?

Could it be they're cancelling any trip to create a demand and price surge? As mentioned, too many cancellations would affect their status. There's a lot of contradictory info being posted here.

If you read my comment fully you would know that cancelling doesn't affect the surge. Who knows why they do it, maybe they think it does. I'm a full time top status driver in Cairns with over 15000 trips under my belt plus more with DIDI. All the contradictions on this thread are from people who don't know what they are talking about.

 

[Rich]

Why ask me? Ask the guys doing it. I'm a top of the status Uber driver in Cairns with 15,000 trips under my belt and a frequent flyer from the airport also, they gain nothing from cancelling. Now, answer me this, why did 15% of my rides cancel on me yesterday when i was already on my way to them? Balls in your court now!

One reason I cancel trips is because Uber will say an estimated wait time of 3 mins but then a driver 15 minutes away gets the job. Usually I am in a hurry. And Uber minutes take longer. Or if it is taking a while to get a car I will open up Didi at the same time. Inevitably both apps get a driver at about the same tine. But I can't answer for others.
There is enough anecdotal evidence here to suggest sonething is going on. I would have thought these other drivers could use cancelling to cause a surge. Say there are 10 Uber drivers nearby and over a short period 12 people order an Uber. Prices are all good at first, but once say 8 drivers accept a fare the price goes up.since there are 4 waiting but only 2 cars. Once the next 2 get an inflated fare, the first 8 cancel and the process starts again. I don't know this for a fact but it seems a reasonable theory.

 

[Brissy1]

Then you should take it up with Uber.

That's a bit Rich. No-one should expect a business to run at a loss or work for almost nothing. I think drivers have every right to refuse if Uber have set the price too low (or take too high a cut).
The Uber model makes both the driver and rider "price takers" i.e. take it or leave it is the only option.

 

[NM]

If you read my comment fully you would know that cancelling doesn't affect the surge. Who knows why they do it, maybe they think it does. I'm a full time top status driver in Cairns with over 15000 trips under my belt plus more with DIDI. All the contradictions on this thread are from people who don't know what they are talking about.

In my case, as noted in the original post of this thread, the cancellation did affect the pricing. My ride was cancelled multiple times in a 4 min window. Each time the app told me the driver was already at the airport and a different name was provided each booking, and each booking the quoted fare price was increasing, including a third quote which I elected not to accept. Whether that meets the criteria for "surge", I am not certain. But the quoted price went up each time, a few dollars each time. That is a fact. Was that increase in fare quote a direct result of the cancellations? From my perspective as the passenger, there was a direct correlation.

The only conclusion I can draw is that at smaller airports the passenger demand rises shortly after the disembarkation of an arriving flight. The first few people to make an Uber booking after the flight arrival receive price quotes based on low demand period. But in the next 5-10 mins, as more arriving passengers collect their luggage and exit the terminal and open the app and request a booking, the demand is seen to be quickly increasing and so the quoted fare price increases.

As far as I can tell, it is the drivers who end up with the passengers who are slower to exit the terminal and make a booking who benefit from the increased "demand", and it is the passengers who are disadvantaged.

I also suspect that the more experienced "Gold/Diamond" drivers are unlikely to be the ones waiting at the airport for the next flight to arrive - they know better ways to get their next passenger. Perhaps I'll see you in a few weeks time for my early morning trip from my hotel to the airport, when I will most likely be booking and using Uber, and happily paying the $2.50 airport fee and a reasonable tip for a pleasant and efficient ride experience. But I will be using a regular taxi from the airport to my hotel upon arrival at CNS as I will not be bitten twice by the same snake.

 

[NM]

That's a bit Rich. No-one should expect a business to run at a loss or work for almost nothing. I think drivers have every right to refuse if Uber have set the price too low (or take too high a cut).
The Uber model makes both the driver and rider "price takers" i.e. take it or leave it is the only option.

"take it or leave it" is just fine. It's the "Take it and leave it" (i.e. accept and then cancel) that seems to be the problem here.

 

[Rich]

That's a bit Rich. No-one should expect a business to run at a loss or work for almost nothing.

But that's exactly why they should take it up with Uber. I am the customer. Uber is offering a product for a price which I agree to buy. If their agent doesn't want to supply the product then it is between them and the parent company. It is nothing to do with me.

 

[Pigg]

One reason I cancel trips is because Uber will say an estimated wait time of 3 mins but then a driver 15 minutes away gets the job. Usually I am in a hurry. And Uber minutes take longer. Or if it is taking a while to get a car I will open up Didi at the same time. Inevitably both apps get a driver at about the same tine. But I can't answer for others.
There is enough anecdotal evidence here to suggest sonething is going on. I would have thought these other drivers could use cancelling to cause a surge. Say there are 10 Uber drivers nearby and over a short period 12 people order an Uber. Prices are all good at first, but once say 8 drivers accept a fare the price goes up.since there are 4 waiting but only 2 cars. Once the next 2 get an inflated fare, the first 8 cancel and the process starts again. I don't know this for a fact but it seems a reasonable theory.

Cancelling by the driver does not cause a surge, end of story, jeeze, enough have informed you if this point on this thread. There is often no surge at the airport at all but there is i the city, you can't base your ten minute exp[eronce on what happens through the whole day. Thanks for admitting you cancel though, you're as bad as the junior drivers that do the same eh? Wasting the time of the driver who has already started to pick you up.

 

[Pigg]

In my case, as noted in the original post of this thread, the cancellation did affect the pricing. My ride was cancelled multiple times in a 4 min window. Each time the app told me the driver was already at the airport and a different name was provided each booking, and each booking the quoted fare price was increasing. Whether that meets the criteria for "surge", I am not certain. But the quoted price went up each time, a few dollars each time. That is a fact. Was that increase in fare quote a direct result of the cancellations? From my perspective as the passenger, there was a direct correlation.

The only conclusion I can draw is that at smaller airports the passenger demand rises shortly after the disembarkation of an arriving flight. The first few people to make an Uber booking after the flight arrival receive price quotes based on low demand period. But in the next 5-10 mins, as more arriving passengers collect their luggage and exit the terminal and open the app and request a booking, the demand is seen to be quickly increasing and so the quoted fare price increases.

As far as I can tell, it is the drivers who end up with the passengers who are slower to exit the terminal and make a booking who benefit from the increased "demand", and it is the passengers who are disadvantaged.

I also suspect that the more experienced "Gold/Diamond" drivers are unlikely to be the ones waiting at the airport for the next flight to arrive - they know better ways to get their next passenger. Perhaps I'll see you in a few weeks time for my early morning trip from my hotel to the airport, when I will most likely be booking and using Uber, and happily paying the $2.50 airport fee and a reasonable tip for a pleasant and efficient ride experience. But I will be using a regular taxi from the airport to my hotel upon arrival at CNS as I will not be bitten twice by the same snake.

Taxis pay the same access fee of $2.50, the airport is busy practically all day long, there are a lot of fifo, charter and regional flights out of Cairns besides the normal flights so no need to hang around for the last few stragglers. Finally, cancelling by the driver does NOT initiate the surge, end of story but maybe the 15% of riders who cancel on me every day cause the price to drop eh? Come back when you actually have some facts to tell us.

 

[XWu]

It may have been a while since I hopped into a taxi (Melbourne CBD Saturday evening, flagged down a taxi, asked to go to a venue 5 km away, driver said ok, sat down then he said it gonna cost $40 which is more than double the usual fare, never again) but with $6.5 flag down, $2.5 airport levy, $2.2 per km for 6-7 km trip to cairns cbd it shouldn’t cost more than $22 off peak but that’s exactly how much it cost for the airport shuttle bus at CNS and worse Uber seems to cost more.

If no cartel is involved in this price gouging for all public transport out of CNS, maybe we should just simply thank capitalism at work for holiday makers.

 

[Rich]

Cancelling by the driver does not cause a surge, end of story, jeeze, enough have informed you if this point on this thread. There is often no surge at the airport at all but there is i the city, you can't base your ten minute exp[eronce on what happens through the whole day. Thanks for admitting you cancel though, you're as bad as the junior drivers that do the same eh? Wasting the time of the driver who has already started to pick you up.

Let's be accurate here. We are not saying it is the cancellation that causes surging, but the act of accepting a ride to reduce supply, when you have no intention of delivering the service. Uber's website says "Surge pricing automatically goes into effect when there are more riders in a given area than available drivers." I don't know about you, but I would think that a driver that has accepted a ride then they are no longer available. Now, whether this causes a surge or not, clearly drivers are accepting and cancelling until the price goes up. They are starting to give Uber drivers the same reputation of the taxi drivers that facilitated Uber's rise in the first place.

All you have said is "it doesn't happen" - no evidence, no theory as to why drivers are cancelling. What is there motivation? Enough people have told you it happens at CNS but you want to deny it. You are typical of the occasional one issue wonders that come on this website in a poor PR attempt (last week we had someone defending a travel insurance company) and you will soon disappear.
In terms of me cancelling the occasional trip, I have explained a reason why. You only have a few minutes to cancel so normally I wouldn't inconvenience a driver too much. (In fact, those 15 minute waits are often because the driver is in the processing of finishing another trip so it makes no difference to them.) If Uber's algorithm worked better I wouldn't have to do it. Unlike drivers I can be penalised for inconveniencing them. A shame it doesn't go both ways.

 

[Brissy1]

"take it or leave it" is just fine. It's the "Take it and leave it" (i.e. accept and then cancel) that seems to be the problem here.

Yes that's annoying, but it seems that in the majority of cases Uber won't let the driver know what they are accepting until after.
The rider gets a price, and can take it or leave it. Same for the driver surely.
I don't think one should get cranky with a person for refusing to be exploited.

 

[RooFlyer]

Cancelling by the driver does not cause a surge, end of story, jeeze, enough have informed you if this point on this thread.

Well, jeez, tell us then why we experience what we do at Cairns Airport? Book a ride, gets cancelled, book, cancelled, book cancelled, price rises.

 

[NM]

I don't think one should get cranky with a person for refusing to be exploited.

Hence why I will not be putting myself into a position to be exploited when I arrive into CNS and need to travel from airport to hotel. By my refusal to be exploited, both Uber and their driver will be the ones missing out on my trip.

 

[Quickstatus]

/Diamond don't cancel, that's why they are Gold/Diamond! Jeeze.

Again I think Gold and diamond are the ones who cancel - because they have visibility into the length of trip and general direction it will go. Junior ones don't have that visibility so they can't cancel rides that are not attractive because they don't know whether they are.

The 3% don't apply to non gold/diamond drivers. But note that drivers want the Gold status so they can have a bit more visibility into the nature of the ride so they will tend to accept as many rides as possible to get themselves to Gold

The Diamond guys have to do 2500trips/3months to maintain that status. 3% cancellation = 25/month.

 

[NM]

Come back when you actually have some facts to tell us.

Wow. Interesting approach. But as I have come back, here are the facts (mostly repeated from my previous posts in this thread, with some additional details added). These are facts as they are my own, very real, personal experience.

Fact 1: We arrived at CNS early evening and decided to walk past the Taxi rank (noting there were taxis waiting and no passengers waiting) and head to the Ride Share pickup area. At the time we arrived at the Ride Share pick-up area, we were the people waiting there.

Fact 2: Used the app to enter my destination and was offered a ride for approx $17. Accepted the ride and was allocated a driver (provide name and vehicle details) who was showing as being at the airport. This "ride" still shows on my app as "Failed" and still notes the driver's name (which I will not publish here)

Fact 3: About two mins later, the ride was cancelled by the driver. Around this time some other people arrived at the Ride Share Pick-up area.

Fact 4: I elected to re-book and was then quoted a fare around $21 to the same destination. Accepted it, was allocated a driver and provided name and vehicle details (different driver/vehicle to first booking.

Fact 5: About another minute later, the ride was cancelled by the driver. Also noted other people who had arrived experienced the same thing (people talk when this happens). Everyone waiting was looking at each other and shrugging shoulders. This "ride" still shows on my app as being 4 mins after the previous failed ride and is also showing as "Failed", but this second failed ride does not show the driver's name, though I do recall it was not the same driver/vehicle as the first failed ride.

Fact 6: Waited a few minutes and tried again. This time quoted fare to the same destination was around $23. About 4 or 5 other groups of people were now waiting at the pick-up area tapping away on their phones.

Fact 7: during this time, no Uber vehicles had arrived to collect passengers, even though each the driver/vehicle I had been allocated in my first two booking attempts was showing as being located at the airport (not 5-10 mins drive away from the airport).

Fact 8: I decided to give up and walk back to the taxi rank where there was still available cabs and no passengers waiting. Straight into the cab and off to our destination. Fare was around $22 including the $2.50 airport fee and credit card surcharge.

Speculation: It appears that passenger demand for Uber pick-ups comes in waves - nobody waiting when we arrived quickly from disembarking the aircraft and no luggage to collect. Within a few minutes of arriving at the Ride Share Pick-up area, several other other travellers arrived.

Speculation: As my bookings were cancelled and I had to re-book, other arriving passengers were also booking so the Uber demand algorithm for was then see an overall increase in demand at the airport and hence my subsequent booking fare quotes were increasing with each re-booking.

Fact 9: We won't be caught out (exploited was the term used above) a second time on our next visit to CNS in a few weeks time, and will just go straight to the taxi rank, expecting to pay around $22 for the fare.

My issue is not the actual fare being charged. If the first booking was quoted at $23 and a driver at the airport I would have accepted it. But starting with a fare quote of $17, then re-booking at $21 and again quoted at $23 might be considered by some people as following the principles of "bait and switch" marketing (switch the price rather than the product).

 

[Happy Dude]

I'm wondering @NM if there is a distinction between the fare increases in your experience and "surge pricing" as described by @Pigg, which might be defined by Uber? ie fares increases doesn't necessarily equate to a surge. From your POV it would be indiscernible and just a coincidence from the driver's.

 

[NM]

I'm wondering @NM if there is a distinction between the fare increases in your experience and "surge pricing" as described by @Pigg, which might be defined by Uber? ie fares increases doesn't necessarily equate to a surge. From your POV it would be indiscernible and just a coincidence from the driver's.

There may well be variation in terminology. The fact is that the fare quoted increased 3 times in around 6 mins, along with 2 "failed" ride engagements. Is that technically called a "surge" or is it called "demand fluctuation" is a little irrelevant from my (the customer) perspective.

 

[AjMcN]

Hi I’m a Uber driver in cairns and we have our own group. It’s not the legit drivers it’s actually the taxi drivers, they all have two phones and accept a Uber ride only to cancel and they all do it together knowing that the customer will get upset and decide to go to the taxi rank which is now directly across the road.

I will admit that their are Uber drivers that do pretty much the same to try and create a surge for a larger fare. I have had some of them come up to me after I have dropped a passenger offf at the airport and have gone to the waiting area and ask me to turn my app off.

Cairns airport and Uber moved the waiting area and the pickup area so now for both waiting and pickup we are directly opposite each other and since then the surge tactic is even worse as so many of the one group know each other and work both Uber and taxi and have access to both.

Just recently most taxis in cairns have placed a sign on their vehicles saying No Surge Charges.

After 25 years as a GM for a very respectful company I drive to pass time while my partner is working and as I’ve travelled to 27 countries I love picking up tourists from all around the world.

Happy to discuss and open up all the honest drivers know.

The Uber app when we drop someone at the airport tells us how many Ubers are waiting in line before you, so often it will tell me 1-5 and there is 18 in the queue.

Regards

A