Uber Review

[trippin_the_rift]

I play flight simulator too, should I be allowed to fly passenger planes for Qantas with no checks, training or licenses??
If I google dentistry I might be able to do that too...not hard, just get a chair and a drill and a fancy app...

Did you read your own analogy? This doesn't even make sense. Everyone needs a licence to drive a car...


Whether or not you support disruptive business models like uberX or not is irrelevant because they're going to change the way consumers do business. You might not ever support UberX, but the other XX million people will and that's enough to sustain the business model.
These types of businesses are meeting consumer needs. I could remind you of the Fels inquiry that published all sorts of problems with the taxi business (to save you time it brought up:
very low customer satisfaction, safety issues for passengers, lack of competition, drivers not being compensated fairly, complex ownership structures, high turnover of drivers resulting in poorly skilled drivers etc...)

I am in the taxi industry...legally. Do you work for Uber?

It's a public safety argument, not entirely about $$$.

I don't work for Uber however I am a supporter of making the world a better place.
If everyone held the same view of the law as your describe there would be no innovation, no new jobs, no new technology, no IPhones, no internet and most certainly no taxis industry to support you. Fact is you, me and the world needs the likes of Uber.
Additionally - many taxi drivers would generate *more* income by exclusively being an UberX driver!

It's a public safety argument, not entirely about $$$.

It's your life...risk it if you want.

UberX drivers go through the exact same security, background and insurance checks as taxi drivers in Australia. Actually UberX drivers go through more as they need to own their car and have an insurance history. Taxi drivers don't need this. So what reason would you have NOT to feel safe? In fact it's safer for UberX drivers as they can choose where and when they want to work, and they have the chance to decline rides.
All routes are monitored by Uber, fare discrepancies are quickly handled by Uber (unlike the taxi system where you need to take the driver to court to dispute your fare, even on a $30 ride). Poor UberX drivers (anyone under a 4.0 out of 5.0) rating are banned from using Uber, ensuring a high quality service at all times. If a similar standard was imposed on regular taxis.....there wouldn't be a whole lot of taxi drivers around...... (Interesting observation: if you open the GoCatch taxi app and look at driver ratings - it's rare to find any taxi drivers with a rating OVER 4.0 out of 5.0)


Mate there are times when I'm unsure about my safety in a taxi but I have *NEVER* felt that way riding with UberX. Maybe I should be worried about risking my safety with taxis based on these facts?

Most weeks I wouldn't drive my private car for 1 hour, where's my 90% rego refund on that car??

Perhaps it's time to reassess whether you really need a car or not. There's plenty of UberX drivers that could take you around...

 

[mushypeas]

ive used UberBlack a dozen times and have now converted across to UberX (Vic) (7 rides so far) - always had a late model new comfortable vehicle pick me up, they offer bottles of water and my choice of route.

from my discussions with the drivers, the insurance coverage and fines are all provided for by Uber so while an individual driver mightn't necessarily have coverage for business purposes, Uber does. For the driver it seems to be fairly lucrative too given most are doing it as a second job on the side. apparently there is a healthy sign on bonus, $25/hr retainer plus they keep roughly 75% of takings.

it's quick, easy and transparent - i also like that i immediately upon exiting the vehicle get a tax invoice emailed to me plus the ability to provide direct feedback to Uber about my experience.

 

[jastel]

Firstly I don't know how to multi quote so excuse the long post. Secondly my knowledge is Qld, taxis operations in other states may not be exactly the same.

Yes, everyone needs a licence to drive a car...but you need ANOTHER Hire Drivers License to legally pick up people and charge them money for transport.
Yes, everybody should have insurance...again there is an entire separate registration and higher insurance class for hire vehicles.
I can google how be a dentist (or whatever)...but I am not legally allowed to be one without a proper license.
These are just facts.

I am aware of the Fels Inquiry...it happened in Qld years ago, he bought up 50 odd suggestions to change the industry...the Qld Government implemented about 5 of them.
An incredible waste of time and money for all concerned. Then Victoria has an inquiry and this guy gets the job again, when his first attempt was a dismal failure??? And to top it all off he didn't even ask Qld Taxi Council or the Qld Government for a comment on how his previous Inquiry's new improved model has benefited the industry or the passengers in Qld...
Taxis, or no industry really, are not perfect and can always be improved but bankrupting everyone involved (Fels' solution) and starting again from scratch is pretty extreme.
Deregulation has not worked for dairy, electricity, fishing, water supply, insurance and many other industries.
The whole country is not BNE, SYD MEL...private enterprise will not work in small remote towns, regulation (and in many cases government assistance) is needed for transport services in the bush.
No Uber there...

Of course Uber drivers feel safer, they cherry pick only good fares they want. Taxi drivers cant pick only the best fares. Sure they try to, but sooner or later they will get a fare, (it might even be one of you guys), that they didn't want to do, and sent in the opposite direction than they want to go, after having just been verbally abused by the previous passenger and they wont be in a good mood and offer you a box of chocolates. I am not saying this is right, just the way it is.
Taxi drivers must do a week long training course in Qld, and have held an open Australian License for 12 months prior, Uber don't do that. Many stories on TV and internet of criminals getting Uber licenses.
Probably some criminals have taxi licenses as well and I have no problem with more enforcement of safety standards.
Taxi drivers don't need cars or insurance...the operator provides these.

Taxis (in Qld anyway) must respond to ALL jobs, then they can refuse it on safety grounds if needed, once they get there. See if you can get an Uber car to travel to an outer suburb at 3am and take some drunk guy 2 blocks to the local servo for a pack of smokes. All taxi jobs are GPS tracked and logged (including price) with the data held by Qld Transport. All taxi vehicles are mechanically inspected at least twice a year, all drivers are licensed with a Drivers Authorisation card displayed inside the car, all taxis have meters (except for very small towns) of which the price is set by Qld Transport, all taxis have cameras (soon to be recording voice as well) for protection of drivers and passengers. The owner and driver CANT access this information on the camera.

As for rating drivers, well if you only want 5 star drivers, hire a Limo and pay for it. That's why they are dearer than taxis. Very few people have a dream job of being a taxi driver and consequentially most are not what you would call "brain surgeons" and may not have the same high standards as you, they are just trying make a living. But if you make it harder and harder with higher standards, the labour pool gets smaller and smaller and service declines. We all know that most "hard working Aussies" wont do the job, you have to work weekends, nights, Xmas etc, so who is left to drive the taxis?? It is a delicate balance.

I have never heard of a customer taking a taxi driver to court? As I said it is all tracked and monitored so its easy to see who is right or wrong if a complaint is made.

How does "my view" of the law, ie obeying it, stop anyone inventing the iphone?
Alternatively, is "your view" of the law to disobey it, if it doesn't suit you ??? I am sure that is not what you mean.

The best solution is for Uber to use already licensed taxi (or Limo) vehicles and drivers, but some legislation changes and a lot of compromise is needed by all parties here.
Where technology and the law intersect the govt moves very slowly unfortunately.
If it was legal and in my town, I would sign up straight away. I can see the business sense of it, but I will be protecting the investment I already have as well.

Oh, and I will be keeping my personal cars...no Uber here, or in most of Australia actually.

 

[lovestotravel]

Dear oh dear..........

Uber is expanding to where there is demand, Perth and Geelong being recent additions, as for small remote towns, taxis are rarely needed

Uber drivers can not just cherry pick the fares they want - The trips they accept/don't accept are monitored and if too many fares are cancelled they wont' be driving for Uber anymore

Taxi drivers DO pick the best fares, try getting a cab in Melbourne during peak times, if it's not where they want to end up they will say NO and drive off

A week long training course - Doesn't help at all - No idea what the training is for MEL but deodorant, manners and a basic understanding of road rules doesn't seem to exist.

Oh many reports on TV and the internet about Uber drivers with criminal convictions - Well Google doesn't show too much

Yet taxis.......... No Cookies | Herald Sun

Oh and Taxi's again - You haven't heard of any being taken to Court - How about trying this Google "taxi driver taken to court australia"



All in all you have told a VERY COOL STORY BRO

 

[Isochronous]

I've used Uber in Doha and Vienna so far. Couldn't be happier. In fact in Doha I found Uber slightly cheaper than a normal cab.

 

[anat0l]

Uber is expanding to where there is demand, Perth and Geelong being recent additions, as for small remote towns, taxis are rarely needed

I didn't know Geelong had Uber... is it simply an "extension" of the existing Uber in Melbourne?

Smaller towns may need a few taxis - I guess the market for Uber there may be limited (or at least Uber may not see predominant demand enough for them to try and get into such places). I guess you never really get the kinds of issues with few taxis in smaller towns that you do in larger cities, which of course highly colours the present viewpoints (not helped that nearly all of us here are from large cities rather than small towns).

Taxi drivers DO pick the best fares, try getting a cab in Melbourne during peak times, if it's not where they want to end up they will say NO and drive off

Can definitely agree with this. Thankfully not a common occurrence in Brisbane, and to some degree not in the other major centres for that matter. Melbourne taxi drivers also have a bad habit of telling you to go jump if your fare is not expensive enough. Reporting the errant drivers and taxis has been a proven waste of time - there is no punitive action, the pattern of behaviour is not reduced and the regulator does not treat any of the reports as a basis for improvement.

A week long training course - Doesn't help at all - No idea what the training is for MEL but deodorant, manners and a basic understanding of road rules doesn't seem to exist.

Frankly I'd be happy if more taxi drivers actually knew where to drive from A to B. No, I am not one of those presumptuous customers who superficially knows a better route than the driver's selection; there are many drivers who are hopeless at knowing even their general bearings. Unfortunately Melbourne is pretty bad for this, too! (What is it with Melbourne taxi drivers compared to the rest of the country?)

In Brisbane, I'd be lucky to get a taxi drivers that knows at least where the city, airport and major shopping centres (on one half of the city) are. There are some admittedly much more experienced ones who know and do their job well. It's unfortunate we broadbrush the industry with bad critique when it is very much unfair on such drivers who are worth their weight in gold (yes, we could try to get them to defect to Uber, but anyway.......)

Oh many reports on TV and the internet about Uber drivers with criminal convictions - Well Google doesn't show too much

Yet taxis.......... No Cookies | Herald Sun

Oh and Taxi's again - You haven't heard of any being taken to Court - How about trying this Google "taxi driver taken to court australia"

I'm not sure about criminal convictions and the like, but I think there have been a few reports in USA of incidents (assault or murder, can't remember) involving either Uber or another similar (ride sharing) company. Actually, it may have been just one. Not sure if it was the passenger or the driver who was the victim. Can't think of what the incidents were for the life of me right now, but it did contribute to the "fear" of "insecurity" in services like Uber (though naturally such an incident was obviously picked up and used thoroughly by the relevant lobbies for the incumbent taxi industries).

Certainly, any such incidents that happen in an Uber vehicle would have a larger impact on the Uber and related market compared to a similar incident having impact with taxis, and that's still if we disregard the special interests and obvious lobbying power that the taxi industry has.

I'm not sure about being taken to court but there have definitely been incidents of fare fraud, theft and sexual assault perpetrated by taxi drivers in Australia. Again, it seems to be quite Melbourne-centric here. That said, there are a fair few incidents of fare evasion (running from cars after arrival is common), assaults (can be quite significant) and even murder of taxi drivers; and similarly it has been difficult to either catch or convict those who have committed such acts against taxi drivers. And I think it would be just a bit callous, even in the spirit of criticising the taxi industry, to say that taxi drivers deserve that kind of treatment due to their "transgressions".


Was Uber really designated as illegal? I thought at the moment maybe the only legally contentious service is UberX (i.e. true ride sharing, cf. the other services which are more like luxury transfers involving vehicles and drivers registered as licensed transportation providers. And then if it is actually illegal why aren't the respective judicial bodies sticking it proper to Uber? I have heard of some fines (and Uber "paid" for these) but that seemed like the extent of it; if it was really illegal and the taxi lobby has as much influence as it does, the respective governments would have surely taken much more serious action by now, e.g. outright ban of Uber, impoundment/significant fining/imprisonment of Uber drivers/vehicles, deregistration of the Uber subsidiary company in Australia / ban on ability to operate in Australia, etc. etc.

In any case, one can't deny that Uber is inherently a disruptive idea; and it is even more difficult to argue that the at least prima facie concept does not have merit for further development. Australia is not the only jurisdiction where Uber is having problems with the law; certainly not the only jurisdiction where it is facing fervent opposition from a very strong taxi lobby!

jastel does raise an interesting case of disruptive passengers and potential harm to lift drivers. We have seen some cases of how this affects taxi drivers (more often than not they can't do much about it, unfortunately); I wonder how an Uber driver would deal with it. One thing though - barring a fraudulent credit card - fare evasion and fare fraud are significantly reduced by Uber compared to the taxi system!

Finally, I have used Uber Black and UberX in Australia. I have enjoyed both services and always feel safe and in the hands of a competent driver when using Uber. Although the sample sizes do not adequately match, I can't quite say the same for conventional taxi services.

 

[Alanslegal]

Taxi drivers DO pick the best fares, try getting a cab in Melbourne during peak times, if it's not where they want to end up they will say NO and drive off

Exactly, happens in Sydney CBD on a Friday night all the time where drivers would refuse to drive me to my place because its only a $15 fare ~2.5KMS.

I am ALL for Uber, and the ONLY reason why the taxi industry is scared *less is because that if Uber was available, the $$$ that they would lose would be in the tens if not hundreds of millions per annum. I get they they want to protect their business but at the end of the day, I don't want to support an issue ridden monopoly business.

I used Uber the other day, ended up in a Holden Statesman and the driver is planning to get a new Audi Q7 so he could take any Uber booking. Now, would I want to ride in a new Q7 with mints and water bottles or a sleazy worn down Ford Falcon taxi.....

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Firstly I don't know how to multi quote so excuse the long post. Secondly my knowledge is Qld, taxis operations in other states may not be exactly the same.
I am aware of the Fels Inquiry...it happened in Qld years ago, he bought up 50 odd suggestions to change the industry...the Qld Government implemented about 5 of them.

Uhh... it's up to the taxi companies to implement. Not the government. 5 of 50 suggestions? What does this tell you about the general attitude of the taxi industry?

Yes, everyone needs a licence to drive a car...but you need ANOTHER Hire Drivers License to legally pick up people and charge them money for transport.

A Hire Driver Licence includes paying a fee and ensuring you're fit to drive. Something that state law and insurance providers already mandate for ALL drivers on the road.

See if you can get an Uber car to travel to an outer suburb at 3am and take some drunk guy 2 blocks to the local servo for a pack of smokes.

See if you can get a taxi to do a short fare. UberX specialises in it.
The pinnacle of laziness: One man’s 90-foot Uber ride - The Technology Chronicles


Side note: my lowest fare with UberX is under $7 for a ~8 minute journey.

All taxi vehicles are mechanically inspected at least twice a year

The average private car does under 25,000km/year and has 1 mechanical inspection/service a year.
The average taxi does 160,000km/year and has 2 inspections/year.

Basically you're saying is private cars are safer than taxis?

As for rating drivers, well if you only want 5 star drivers, hire a Limo and pay for it. That's why they are dearer than taxis.

Seriously? What kind of low standards do you have for taxis?

Very few people have a dream job of being a taxi driver and consequentially most are not what you would call "brain surgeons" and may not have the same high standards as you, they are just trying make a living.
But if you make it harder and harder with higher standards, the labour pool gets smaller and smaller and service declines. We all know that most "hard working Aussies" wont do the job, you have to work weekends, nights, Xmas etc, so who is left to drive the taxis?? It is a delicate balance.

Hey thanks for teaching me something new today. I need to ask my boss for a pay rise now I know that personal hygiene, a smile and knowing how to get from A to B are in "brain surgeon" territory.

 

[medhead]

I am in the taxi industry...legally. Do you work for Uber?

I play flight simulator too, should I be allowed to fly passenger planes for Qantas with no checks, training or licenses??
If I google dentistry I might be able to do that too...not hard, just get a chair and a drill and a fancy app...
It's a public safety argument, not entirely about $$$.

Did you read my post??
I am saying it is illegal under present law. Don't like the law, then change it...but obey what it actually says now.
Everyone saying you should use it is implicitly saying its legal. Maybe they dont know any better.
I am giving people the facts, not opinions, so they can decide for themselves.

Most weeks I wouldn't drive my private car for 1 hour, where's my 90% rego refund on that car??
Sounds fair to me!

It's your life...risk it if you want.

Yeah, because getting a taxi drivers accreditation is so hard There are no rubbish taxi drivers at all are there? There are no dangerous taxi drivers at all, are there? Because qld transport is out there everyday doing inspections, enforcing standards, checking drivers accreditations and ensuring no one is doing 72 hours straight on a single. Transport is also making sure the STs really are substituting for the main taxi and not doubling up. Or perhaps the reality is transport does not to regulate the industry and hence heaps of dodgy rogues have taken over. The advantage of über is I don't have to play Russian roulette, like I do every time I get in a taxi.

The difference in a taxi rego would also be about a lot more than just ctp.

Just following up to your later post. When I got my drivers authorisation I had to have held an open licence for 2 or 5 years, can't remember which. As such a 1 year requirement means standards have slipped.

It is also dubious to suggest a taxi must respond to every job. They only have to respond if they bid for the job. Extremely easy to avoid those outer suburbs by simply not asking for the work. In any case, that's a radio network rule not a transport department rule.

 

[serfty]

Most Melbourne cabbies failing tough new knowledge tests | Herald Sun

THE sole Victorian cabbie to pass a tough new taxi knowledge test that stumped more than 200 drivers says it should be compulsory for wannabes to go to taxi school.
Karen Downie — an experienced taxi driver trainer at 13Cabs — is the only person to have successfully completed all three parts of the exam.Data obtained by the Herald Sun shows 234 drivers have attempted the test since it was introduced on July 1.

 

[anat0l]

Most Melbourne cabbies failing tough new knowledge tests | Herald Sun

This would be interesting if they are fair dinkum about making sure all drivers can bona fide pass that test, and the test is as difficult (wide ranging) as they make it out to be.

Reminds me of the requirements of a London cabbie (I don't know how stringent they are, but I do know at minimum they must know the geography of London very well).

If it leads to a "shortage of drivers", I guess Uber might get more popular!

 

[medhead]

This would be interesting if they are fair dinkum about making sure all drivers can bona fide pass that test, and the test is as difficult (wide ranging) as they make it out to be.

Reminds me of the requirements of a London cabbie (I don't know how stringent they are, but I do know at minimum they must know the geography of London very well).

If it leads to a "shortage of drivers", I guess Uber might get more popular!

London black cabbies have to do "The Knowledge". Takes something like 5 years to pass.

I had to pass a test for a Brisbane licence. 3 sections, one of which was closed book the other sections were street directory open book. The UBD is actually a comprehensive document that takes some skill to use. People failed the test. Plus a driving test, that included everything from driving skill as well as doing the fares correctly, various lights etc.

 

[anat0l]

I had to pass a test for a Brisbane licence. 3 sections, one of which was closed book the other sections were street directory open book. The UBD is actually a comprehensive document that takes some skill to use. People failed the test. Plus a driving test, that included everything from driving skill as well as doing the fares correctly, various lights etc.

Have they eased up on this test in Brisbane, I wonder? Because the lengths of testing you describe here don't seem to reflect the competency of the average taxi driver I meet in Brisbane. Damn shame.

 

[medhead]

Have they eased up on this test in Brisbane, I wonder? Because the lengths of testing you describe here don't seem to reflect the competency of the average taxi driver I meet in Brisbane. Damn shame.

Possibly. They've lowered the standard for holding a driver's licence. Maybe it was just that taxi company that required those things. Still without passing I couldn't get the driver's authority.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Little birdy whispered to me today that Vic Govt will not be acting on Uber until post State Election in Nov. And may not matter which party get's over the line action will be taken. Pls don't shoot the messenger - just doin' a service for the masses.

 

[lovestotravel]

Little birdy whispered to me today that Vic Govt will not be acting on Uber until post State Election in Nov. And may not matter which party get's over the line action will be taken. Pls don't shoot the messenger - just doin' a service for the masses.

Yep both parties are in Election Mode already and Uber is the least of their worries

As for after November we shall see what happens, but Uber has lots of cash behind it

 

[penegal]

*sigh*

I don't particularly want to dive into the legal (and clearly emotional) debate...

... But one thing is clear to me - The transport industry is broken, and taxis are a big part of this!!!



I don't really see why Uber (UberX) should be worried about breaking "the law" when a very large number of taxi drivers clearly don't have a problem breaking the law.

In Australia (Sydney and Melbourne especially) taxi drivers regularly tout for desirable fares, refuse undesirable fares, drive in a dangerous (and often illegal manner), drive un-roadworthy vehicles and often don't know where they are going.

After about ~35 UberX rides in Australia, UberX drivers have never done any of that. They all hold a full drivers license, and have new modern car. The only illegal thing which occurred is that they carried a passenger for a fee without the appropriate [additional] licence.



So just remember guys, next time you pick up your mother from the airport, make sure she doesn't slip you some cash to say thanks BECAUSE YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW.... YOU MUST BE AN EVIL HORRIBLE BAD PERSON!!!!

 

[penegal]

Allow me to quote myself just in case you missed it.

This is really a public service announcement

So just remember guys, next time you pick up your mother from the airport, make sure she doesn't slip you some cash to say thanks BECAUSE YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW.... YOU MUST BE AN EVIL HORRIBLE BAD PERSON!!!!

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Exactly. The melbourne taxi industry is an absolute joke. Many people I know simply refuse to use them. I personally dont like smelling body odour so i avoid them

 

[lovestotravel]

Indeed - I have a friend driving for UberX and the number of customers he gets that say they will NEVER use a taxi again is endless

Pretty much every customer says that due to the reasons mentioned above

*well they do still catch taxis when there are no UberX's available*

I have no doubt the Government will crack down on at some stage on UberX as they want a slice of the $$ and also to protect the taxi industry and the revenue from plates....