Understanding [Fare Buckets] Expert Flyer

[NM]

d) There is actually no way, using EF, to determine if Qantas has business or first upgrade seats available (other than the obvious zero next to codes).

Correct. The availability of seats for upgrades on international flights is determined by Yield Management about 24 hours before departure. They use unsold seats from the upgraded cabin and make them available to people on the waitlist based on the published priority (FF Status first, then based on the order of joining the waitlist). It is up to Yield Management to determine how many of the unsold business class seats will be made available for upgrades. It is unlikely that all unsold seats will become upgrade seats unless the economy cabin is oversold and they need the space down the back. Qantas seems to like to keep a few business class seats available for last minute sale, paying passengers needing to change flights and displaced passengers.

 

[NM]

Is it reasonable to assume that high numbers of J D or C indicate a fair few empty business seats and, therefore, (hopefully) a better chance of a business upgrade with points?

Yes, the case where D availability is similar to J is always best in my experience. That means they don't expect to see lots of full fare business class seats on that flight (otherwise they would reduce the D availability)

 

[NM]

Similarly, high numbers of the economy codes (eg. Y, R, O, N, etc.) suggest plenty of availability in the economy cabin?

Economy is more difficult to predict. Generally existence of availability of the lowest fare classes (N, Q, O, V) generally indicates a light load. If a flight is only showing availability in say Y, H and B then expect it to be quite full.

 

[garyjohn951]

I am sure this question was asked only a few days ago but I can't see the link.
Expert Flyer. Does it now show award seats or is it still not working with those.
I am sure someone asked for an update last week, but it has disappeared.

 

[serfty]

Still not working for various classes on QF: Z, U, I, T. Sometimes X (Award WHY) shows, sometimes not.

See post #4 above.

 

[Brettmcg]

Can anyone explain to me why ExpertFlyer always shows the E fare bucket for Qantas? As far as I am aware this is the "Shuttle Service" bucket, which I have never seen with any availability (I'm assuming this is because they don't sell seats of this type)?!

 

[Dave Noble]

Can anyone explain to me why ExpertFlyer always shows the E fare bucket for Qantas? As far as I am aware this is the "Shuttle Service" bucket, which I have never seen with any availability (I'm assuming this is because they don't sell seats of this type)?!

It shows it since that is what the GDS returns.

Dave

 

[Brettmcg]

Amazing

 

[serfty]

Can anyone explain to me why ExpertFlyer always shows the E fare bucket for Qantas? As far as I am aware this is the "Shuttle Service" bucket, which I have never seen with any availability (I'm assuming this is because they don't sell seats of this type)?!

Actually, I have occasionally seen E availability. It does tend to correspond to a really lightly loaded flight.

 

[ronaldh]

I was looking up a flight for 15th December on EF, for SYD-BKK to see the loadings on Y and J, just to see whether chances for upgrades were good or not and just wanted to check a few things with the (much) more experienced members on this forum.

The seat availability shows J9 C9 D8 I3 Y1 B0 H0 K0 M0 L0 G0 E0
Which suggests that there's only 1 economy seat left for sale...yet I can still book 9 (maybe more, just can't choose more) seats - does this mean that Qantas would be overselling by at least 8 seats here? On a side note, what % of Y seats would Qantas usually oversell?
Also, given that absence of Y at all discount levels and still same J availability, even in I, would this suggest that opups due to overselling are likely? (as well as points upgrade?)

Thanks!

 

[serfty]

Airlines can vary fare bucket availability depending upon many factors, including country of sale (POS), selling agency, city etc.

E/F gives results by default based on USA POS, you can change this to UK.

Generally the variance is minor.

On Qantas.com.au you are seeing availability based on Qantas selling from Australia, I have often seen availability on Qantas.com where E/F or flight-stats suggests little or none would be available.

 

[ronaldh]

Makes sense then. Thanks Sefty. So there's really no way to tell accurately how full a plan actually is then is there?

 

[serfty]

Makes sense then. Thanks Sefty. So there's really no way to tell accurately how full a plan actually is then is there?

Not 100%, but generally any variance is minor, if nothing else the flight is quite full in economy - it is likely QF are considering overselling.

 

[serfty]

These posts may be useful to be repeated here:

... QF may find 20 seats on a flight still "unsold" [a few days before a flight]; 16 may be in F and J, leaving 4 in economy.

Qantas will try to sell those 20 seats for whatever they can get. If in the above scenario they sell 15 of those at economy prices they will have to upgrade 11 PAX as there were only 4 economy seats "left".

First they'll upgrade those who have points upgrades requested, then if there are still too many pax in economy they would normally look at each customer's value/status with Qantas and upgrade those at the top of the list.

This may often be seen with a low fare bucket availability in first/business (F2 / J3) with seat maps showing a disproportionally low number of seat allocated in the actual cabin. e.g. F1 with only 1 of the 14 seats allocated.

...
I've only recently subscribed to EF so still getting my head around it; not sure what is the most appropriate info to pass on.

See this link (it's also in post #1) for a guide:

Understanding Expert Flyer

Also have a read of post #1 with particular reference to mentions of discount premium buckets (A, P, I, D, U, T & Z inventories).

Post #1 also has a tip on how to obtain fare bucket loading yourself.

QF11 8 Oct. J: 3 occupied and 1 blocked.

QF108 27 Oct. J: 9 occupied, 6 blocked.

QF16 27 Oct. J: 3 occupied, 10 blocked.

Checking allocated/blocked/free seats is generally not as useful a guide as fare bucket availability can be.

FWIW, these flights between SYD and LAX are:

QF11 8/10: F9 A9 J9 C9 D9 I9 W9 R9 T9 Z1 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 G0 X9 E0

QF16 28/10: J9 C9 D9 I9 W9 R9 T9 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 G0 X9 E0

QF108 27/10: J9 C9 D9 I9 W9 R9 T9 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 G0 X9 E0

These flights are currently "wide Open" - however, October is really too far out to get any useful prediction. if you see something like that a week before a flight, points upgrades would be almost certain, but you can't "say' that currently (although it's not too shabby).

 

[MrHanky]

Understanding Expert Flyer + Fare Differences

Hi all,

I've booked a flight from MEL-SYD-NRT return in Feb on QF for myself and 4 others.

Each of us are booked outbound in O class and return in Q class. After some discussion, we have decided that a flight 3 days (outbound) earlier would be highly desirable to extend the duration of our stay and see a few more sights that Japan has to offer...

I'm having some trouble understanding the Qantas website fare availability (fare difference calculation) and the available booking classes returned on expert flyer.

For example, the flight 4 days earlier shows a fare difference of +$283, yet for the flight 3 days earlier, it shows +$411.

Expertflyer shows:
20th Feb:
MEL-SYD QF464
J9 C9 D9 I8 U8 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 G0 X9 E0
SYD-NRT QF21
J9 C9 D9 I9 W9 R9 T4 Y9 B9 H9 K6 M0 G0 E0


21st Feb:
MEL-SYD QF464
J9 C9 D9 I8 U9 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9 G0 X9 E0
SYD-NR QF21
J9 C9 D6 I9 W9 R8 T0 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M0 G0 E0

What is puzzling me is that the booking class availability looks more or less identical. I had thought that possibly the availability of the T class seats was the reason, but searching for new fares with 5 on the QF booking site shows the same outbound flight cost on the 20/2/14 as searching for 1 adult (which suggests that it's not actually selecting these T4 seats?)

Anyways, just after some help / advice understanding the rationale for the massive difference in cost between these two dates, given the similarities of seat availability? I can swallow a $283 + change fee cost, but $411 + change fee is stretching the friendship... Is it likely / worth waiting to see if other cheaper fare buckets open up later?

Thanks in advance!

 

[serfty]

Re: Understanding Expert Flyer + Fare Differences

T class is deep discounted premium economy.

Have you tried E/F with origin UK?

E/F by default shows fare from a USA point of sale - this can vary fare bucket availability.

Also have you tried changing the booking online?

 

[MrHanky]

Re: Understanding Expert Flyer + Fare Differences

Thanks for the suggestion, I tried again from ef UK with the same availability results.

As for trying to change the booming online, 4 of us had a change over the phone under the "no mistakes policy"on the day we booked, and ever since qf staff put touched the booking the option to change online has disappeared!

One of our party booked after us though, so I've used that booking to try playing with dates online and the +283 (20/2) and +411 (21/2) are correct.

Any more suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[serfty]

Re: Understanding Expert Flyer + Fare Differences

Some fares can vary depending on the day of the week ... or some fares aren't valid on certain days of the week.

Can you duplicate the new fare here?: http://matrix.itasoftware.com/cvg/dispatch/

Using my script, the more expensive fare seems to book into S class.

 

[Nizar]

Guys I have just signed up but as a complete newbie I am struggling to interpret how it all works.
I am looking at some MEL-FCO flights and looking at the MEL-HKG leg of a CX option I see this (below).

I am looking at using AA miles to book these flights so I thought I had to look for availability in U class, but it seems that U class isn't even listed ??
Cheers




J9 C5 D0 I0 W9 R9 E9 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9L9 V9 S1 N0 Q0 O0

 

[Princess Fiona]

Guys I have just signed up but as a complete newbie I am struggling to interpret how it all works.
I am looking at some MEL-FCO flights and looking at the MEL-HKG leg of a CX option I see this (below).

I am looking at using AA miles to book these flights so I thought I had to look for availability in U class, but it seems that U class isn't even listed ??
Cheers




J9 C5 D0 I0 W9 R9 E9 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9L9 V9 S1 N0 Q0 O0

You cannot search for Award Availability on CX using EF.
You will need to search using KVS tool, Asia Miles, JAL etc