Unlawful Tokyo transfer

[epsc]

I used points for a return business class trip to Europe. The Qantas search engine offered me a return leg from Frankfurt via Tokyo on JAL, which sounded good, so I took it. A month or so later, when I go to put the flight details into my calendar, I notice that the ticketing has me going into Narita and out of Haneda. Puzzled, I investigate further, and find that there’s no shuttle or transfer, I have to exit Narita and make my own way to Haneda - which requires a visa. Which isn’t available. Had I not twigged, I would not have been permitted to board in Frankfurt - had I flown, I would have been entering the country illegally. Six hours of waiting on line and calls dropping out later, I finally get a valid return flight, on Emirates, 8 days after I had planned to return. After being told by several that there were no flights, and my only option was to have my points refunded and make my own way back.
I contacted a friend, who was also booked home via Tokyo. Same thing. Qantas initially told her when she called that there was no problem. The Japanese Embassy told her otherwise. She didn’t get a return flight, so had to fork out over $2k for a one way economy flight.
Anyone else experience this?

 

[ketsuzei]

So would your solution be to have the Qantas search engine offer nothing through Japan until Japan sorts its act out? And given that no one currently knows exactly when that will be...

 

[epsc]

So would your solution be to have the Qantas search engine offer nothing through Japan until Japan sorts its act out? And given that no one currently knows exactly when that will be...

?? I would expect Qantas NOT to offer me a routing which it knew full well was not lawful. By doing so it left me in the position of being denied boarding if I hadn’t checked. As it was I missed out on other possible return flights because I only found out some months later, when there was very little availability.

 

[ketsuzei]

some months later

So you expected Qantas to predict what would be lawful "some months later", in every jurisdiction in the world.

 

[epsc]

What’s with you? It wasn’t lawful, which should have been signalled by big bold warnings, if it was to be offered at all, which it shouldn’t have been. They should NOT have assumed it WOULD be lawful when I was travelling. They should have made clear that the routing involved having to obtain a visa and travel between two airports via private transfer.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Initially I was also concerned that airlines offer ticketing that requires transfer though Japan, but then the airlines don't know who does and doesn't have a valid Japan visa.

 

[SYD]

Initially I was also concerned that airlines offer ticketing that requires transfer though Japan, but then the airlines don't know who does and doesn't have a valid Japan visa.

JL have been selling these fares for months as well (I’ve been searching J fares to/from Europe). It certainly important to check airport changes for any itinerary.

 

[logicallysynced]

I don’t necessarily agree with it and think they could make it a lot clearer, but they do have this statement on international bookings:



But yeah, I’m guessing like others have said, airlines don’t know who does or doesn’t have a valid visa or exemption which can easily lead to these situations.

 

[epsc]

Initially I was also concerned that airlines offer ticketing that requires transfer though Japan, but then the airlines don't know who does and doesn't have a valid Japan visa.

JL have been selling these fares for months as well (I’ve been searching J fares to/from Europe). It certainly important to check airport changes for any itinerary.

Ordinarily, of course, transiting wouldn’t be a problem, as long as you can stay airside. It’s the enforced transfer that caused the headache. The search engine should highlight stuff like that.

 

[aikman]

But yeah, I’m guessing like others have said, airlines don’t know who does or doesn’t have a valid visa or exemption which can easily lead to these situations.

This. Some people are allowed to enter Japan. How is Qantas supposed to know that you are not one of those people.

 

[TheInsider]

Visa requirements or entry/transit requirements have always been the responsibility of the passenger. Never has it been a 'Qantas' issue.

 

[Guvner]

Visa requirements or entry/transit requirements have always been the responsibility of the passenger. Never has it been a 'Qantas' issue.

Absolutely agree.
Also, the transit may not be "legal" to the OP, but there are certain conditions where others can transit.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What’s with you? It wasn’t lawful, which should have been signalled by big bold warnings, if it was to be offered at all, which it shouldn’t have been. They should NOT have assumed it WOULD be lawful when I was travelling. They should have made clear that the routing involved having to obtain a visa and travel between two airports via private transfer.

I’m with the general sentiment on this thread… that entry requirements are the responsibility of the traveller, not the airline.

If we apply the logic to another scenario… I booked my award flights from Australia to the USA at a time when Australians were not permitted to leave the country. How was Alaska Airlines or Qantas to know the exact timing of the restriction being lifted?

I booked the flights with the knowledge I may not be able to travel. But award availability was good, on dates I was hoping to fly.

I went in to that booking knowing the risk. The gamble paid out big time because the restrictions were lifted, and once they were, award availability was almost non existent.

i would much rather have the scenario where I assume the risk. The same applies to flights via Tokyo. I know I can’t enter, but I would like the flights offered, and I take the risk.

The other scenario is that there will be people with visas or rights of entry who may be able to take the flights offered. Again, up to the traveller to determine if they are eligible.

 

[NickCorr]

I had the same issue earlier this year with QF purchased EK metal LHR-SIN flights via DBX. At the time Dubai was not on the VTL plan into Singapore and thus the tickets were unusable. After many discussions, Qantas refunded that leg, keeping the MEL-LHR and SIN-MEL, and we had to book seperately with AY from LHR-SIN.
Murphys law saw UAE being added to the VTL about a week before we travelled...

 

[SeatBackForward]

I'm actually surprised that the Japanese airlines and/or the airports haven't setup an isolated transfer between the two airports. Maybe a bus service or something that is controlled, similar to how transfer to quarantine hotels used to be organised.

 

[offshore171]

I'm actually surprised that the Japanese airlines and/or the airports haven't setup an isolated transfer between the two airports. Maybe a bus service or something that is controlled, si

It’s likely not up to them. The Japanese govt would need to change laws/regulations.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Initially I was also concerned that airlines offer ticketing that requires transfer though Japan, but then the airlines don't know who does and doesn't have a valid Japan visa.

Indeed. Or what passport/passports people hold.
Or what the rules for any county will be in the future. Or tomorrow, as some found out during the pandemic peak.
Passenger is always responsible for passport/visa/visa free/etc for transit and country entry.
Nothing new. Been that way for decades.

 

[BD1959]

Intrigued, I've just been searching flights FRA to SYD on JL for a month from now on EF. Nothing appears which involves a NRT/HND transfer, with all flights either transiting Tokyo to a 3rd port (eg FRA-NRT-MEL-SYD, FRA-HND-SIN-SYD) or positioning to a port which serves NRT (eg FRA-LHR-NRT-SYD).

There must be some reason why EF has the smarts to pick up available routings and QF doesn't ...

Regards,

BD

 

[SYD]

Intrigued, I've just been searching flights FRA to SYD on JL for a month from now on EF. Nothing appears which involves a NRT/HND transfer, with all flights either transiting Tokyo to a 3rd port (eg FRA-NRT-MEL-SYD, FRA-HND-SIN-SYD) or positioning to a port which serves NRT (eg FRA-LHR-NRT-SYD).

There must be some reason why EF has the smarts to pick up available routings and QF doesn't ...

Regards,

BD

ITA Matrix has a setting “Allow airport changes” (defaults to “on“ but simple checkbox to disable). I’d expect EF has similar?

There are definitely options out there with NRT->HND transfers and probably v.v.

As an aside, some JL connections ex Oz to Europe via just HND have very long layovers that currently you can‘t leave the airport for a hotel o/n… The Euro to Oz via HND tend to be better connections, pre-Covid that was the direction that normally thew up the airport change options.

Hopefully the Japanese Gov will get around to relaxing the rules soon….

 

[SeatBackForward]

Hopefully the Japanese Gov will get around to relaxing the rules soon….

I thought I'd read something recently that there's little chance of that happening this side of 2023.