Unlawful Tokyo transfer

[gkgkgk]

In my humble opinion -

When connecting flights are in another airport of the same city, Qantas should at least alert passengers (highlight and remind them to check their own entry requirements during the booking process).

 

[SYD]

In my humble opinion - Qantas should have at least caution there is a change in airport (highlight and remind pax to check their own entry requirements)

Yep, I know BA show a warning if booking a flight into LHR and out of LGW (or v.v). Plus there’s usually a warning that you need to schlep your luggage also.

 

[exLXCXFF]

Yep, I know BA show a warning if booking a flight into LHR and out of LGW (or v.v). Plus there’s usually a warning that you need to schlep your luggage also.

"to schlep" - haul or carry (something heavy or awkward), origin lies in Middle High German and it made it via Yiddish into North American English.

Most enlightening part of this entire thread so far, lasst sie schleppen !

 

[drron]

AA is another that warn you of a change of airport and several times booked JL BNE-NRT x HND-LHR or JFK and they have warned that you will change airports. So Why not QFF. Easy to add that you will need a Japanese visa to do this.
And to all those saying QF doesn't know if you have a valid visa or not the only visas into Japan are returning residents,Business visas and group tours. Extremely unlikely any of those would be booking LHR-NRT and same day HND-Australia.

 

[Gladstone Tim]

Never safe to assume anything in regards to flights/travel/entry requirements but I can fully understand where the OP is coming from.

 

[ketsuzei]

And to all those saying QF doesn't know if you have a valid visa or not the only visas into Japan are returning residents,Business visas and group tours. Extremely unlikely any of those would be booking LHR-NRT and same day HND-Australia.

Well all I can say is that that's pretty much how my family got to Europe and back earlier this year (only difference being that we weren't dumb enough to fly out of the UK). Does it surprise you that Japanese people like flying JAL? A "returning resident" might just "return" for transit purposes. "Extremely unlikely" times 120 million people gives something non-negligible.

There's a serious lack of imagination going on here as to the various possibilities and combinations. Should I be utterly outraged if an option like that is available for July 2023 as of now? If not, why not?

Should QF refuse to book people on flights to the US unless they can show their ESTA first? Even though perhaps the odd person flying might actually be an American citizen? Or because someone who may or may not be named JohnK may have mucked that up at one point?

There's lots of things that Qantas can't do well... I don't really think we should be asking them to babysit us and hold our hands as well.

Personal responsibility. It's free, take some.

 

[MJ3850]

ITA Matrix has a setting “Allow airport changes” (defaults to “on“ but simple checkbox to disable). I’d expect EF has similar?

There are definitely options out there with NRT->HND transfers and probably v.v.

As an aside, some JL connections ex Oz to Europe via just HND have very long layovers that currently you can‘t leave the airport for a hotel o/n… The Euro to Oz via HND tend to be better connections, pre-Covid that was the direction that normally thew up the airport change options.

Hopefully the Japanese Gov will get around to relaxing the rules soon….

What is crazy is that Royal Park hotel Haneda do have a transit hotel within the transit area that they are refusing to open. As passengers can't leave transit, they are not risking anything by having this operational.

 

[pyffii]

Any idea as to if and/or when the transit hotel might reopen as we're planning on a transit in May 2023

 

[offshore171]

What is crazy is that Royal Park hotel Haneda do have a transit hotel within the transit area that they are refusing to open. As passengers can't leave transit, they are not risking anything by having this operational.

This too might be a govt restriction

 

[MJ3850]

This too might be a govt restriction

Do you think it may be pointless given it is in a transit area?

 

[djkelly69]

Yep, I know BA show a warning if booking a flight into LHR and out of LGW (or v.v). Plus there’s usually a warning that you need to schlep your luggage also.

Qantas shows a warning as well if you look at a LHR/LGW flight, including something being responsible for your own transit costs.

 

[offshore171]

Do you think it may be pointless given it is in a transit area?

I think most of Japan's measures are pointless and excessive at this stage.

I'm just suggesting that the decision to suspend operations may not be up to the transit hotel, but rather due to a governmental restriction. No point attacking a business if they are forced to close by the government.

Japan is going to have to bite the bullet at some stage, as have done most of the rest of the world.

 

[VPS]

I have an award flight in November and need to get from Narita to Haneda and I know it probably isn't going to happen but it costs nothing to cancel. I'm on the side of you need to be responsible for visas and transits yourself. How do they know you're not a Japanese citizen?

 

[Vic]

Well all I can say is that that's pretty much how my family got to Europe and back earlier this year (only difference being that we weren't dumb enough to fly out of the UK). Does it surprise you that Japanese people like flying JAL? A "returning resident" might just "return" for transit purposes. "Extremely unlikely" times 120 million people gives something non-negligible.

I'm having trouble following your line of thought here. Maybe not assisted by DrRon's post possibly missing a word, or something.
Are you really saying that a small, but non-negligible, fraction of people who can legally transit is justification for not having a warning for the vast majority of people who can't?

There is also a bit of a difference between a warning and refusing to book, at least to me.

 

[Jayvee99]

I used points for a return business class trip to Europe. The Qantas search engine offered me a return leg from Frankfurt via Tokyo on JAL, which sounded good, so I took it. A month or so later, when I go to put the flight details into my calendar, I notice that the ticketing has me going into Narita and out of Haneda. Puzzled, I investigate further, and find that there’s no shuttle or transfer, I have to exit Narita and make my own way to Haneda - which requires a visa. Which isn’t available. Had I not twigged, I would not have been permitted to board in Frankfurt - had I flown, I would have been entering the country illegally. Six hours of waiting on line and calls dropping out later, I finally get a valid return flight, on Emirates, 8 days after I had planned to return. After being told by several that there were no flights, and my only option was to have my points refunded and make my own way back.
I contacted a friend, who was also booked home via Tokyo. Same thing. Qantas initially told her when she called that there was no problem. The Japanese Embassy told her otherwise. She didn’t get a return flight, so had to fork out over $2k for a one way economy flight.
Anyone else experience this?

Yes, I had the same fate of Narita and Haneda from U.S. back to Aus on JAL on Qantas points. Several days on phone and talking to idiots from call centeres, who cut off calls and never calling back and putting so much stress and sleepless nights, with no solution in sight, managed to talk to someone from Australia of Qantas and she managed to resolve it in 15 minutes time with a confirmed ticket to Narita y out of Narita on the same day, though it was on the budget Jetstar. And as luck would have it, when reached Narita, the Jetstar flight was cancelled, but managed to get a seat on the next day's Jetstar flight, after the Japanese girls came close to tears when they thought they may not be able to get me a seat until after several days later. I feel never to fly again on Quantas or on Qantas points especially as they have no customer service, but only call center service which is irresponsible and no accountabilty and makes you wonder why on earth you ever decided to book with Qantas.

 

[ketsuzei]

I'm having trouble following your line of thought here. Maybe not assisted by DrRon's post possibly missing a word, or something.
Are you really saying that a small, but non-negligible, fraction of people who can legally transit is justification for not having a warning for the vast majority of people who can't?

There is also a bit of a difference between a warning and refusing to book, at least to me.

OP said:

It wasn’t lawful, which should have been signalled by big bold warnings, if it was to be offered at all, which it shouldn’t have been

I have no problem with a "warning" for those who need it, it's the "shouldn't have been offered" bit that seems ludicrous to me. What's the rule? Block all routes that someone for some reason might not be able to fly? Or should QF (and its search engine) have somehow known what Japan's policy would be for a person of any given visa status as of the proposed date of travel?

So yes, I agree that there is a difference between a warning and refusing to book. Yes to the former, no to the latter.

It's also clear that some people spend less time looking at their itineraries (and thinking about them) than others.

 

[MJ3850]

Perhaps ALL JAL long haul international flights should arrive/depart from Haneda. Much less confusing then.

 

[ketsuzei]

Perhaps ALL JAL long haul international flights should arrive/depart from Haneda. Much less confusing then.

Transits aren't always JAL to JAL, though.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Having connected through Japan a couple of times, most recently in 2019 I can assure you that it is possible to arrive in Narita and get onto a flight at Haneda, provided of course that you factored in several hours to make the connection as you need to catch a train to get you between the two Tokyo co-terminals. Indeed, if you plan your connection long enough you might even have enough time to explore the fish market in Tokyo before catching your connecting international flight. Certainly that would be my thought if I was making such a booking.

Now in terms of the current COVID restrictions in Japan that prevent entry for most folks, yes such an itinerary taken today won't work for most of us. But it certainly would work for a Japanese traveller. And at the time of booking it was unclear whether such an itinerary is valid. If airlines had to foresee every possible restriction out there they would be out of business. How many times did Qantas sell tickets for travel interstate only for those tickets to end up being useless when a state government through up a hard COVID border? The answer is many times and I have encountered many cancellations due to this occurring.

Could Qantas have done more to warn travellers? Potentially. But at some point travellers need to take responsibility for their actions. Just as we don't find it acceptable for Uncle Alan to blame the current mess at SYD and other QF stations as being caused by rusty travellers nor is it acceptable for us to blame QF for selecting an itinerary we didn't fully understand!

-RooFlyer88

 

[tdimdad]

Looking at the QF booking engine, it shows the airport change already on the list of available flight options. Seeing that in the connection should immediately trigger the traveller to check if they are allowed to enter the landside (based on the current knowledge) and then choose whether to take the risk of a failed connection.



When searching for trips, I rather choose a longer, perhaps even uncomfortable, connection time just to secure the certainty of being able to connect. I.e. in this case, prefer a long wait in HND over a quicker connection with an airport change.

When it comes to an idea of consolidating the connections into a single airport, I doubt neither HND or NRT could handle all permutations of OW, let alone passengers crossing the alliance boundaries. You just have to choose your options carefully.