US Air vs AA - cultural problem on merger?

[RooFlyer]

I recently flew YYC-DFW-BZE-DFW on AA J, then DFW-PHX-YYC on US 'F' and J. I was pretty shocked at the difference in standards and attitudes of the FAs and if my experiences were representative, I wonder how the merging of staff will go when full merger is implemented. Might one have to figure out if your would be a US legacy crew, or an AA one?

On the AA legs, it was a 737; one new, two older. Individual screens on the new, shared IFE via little screen that dropped down on the older. On US, A320s with ditto IFE. Seats and legroom were pretty much the same (all were first row, bulkhead seats). So the hard product didn't make a difference.

The AA crews were smiling, 'bubbly' and interacted with the pax. The US ones were pretty perfunctory. And there was the extraordinary help given to me by the Captain of one of the AA legs - described here.

AA meals were better than the US ones. Might have just been the timing, and maybe just one of those things, but it was noticeable on my flights. Wines were pretty coughpy on both AA and US - chardonnay was the only white available on all 5 legs. Oh, I do try to speak a bit clearly when I'm overseas; but when asked what I'd like to drink by one of the US FAs, how many times do you think I had to say 'Red wine, please'? Four times. She thought I was asking for rum - honest.

But what hit me between the eyes was the attitude to safety of US crew between PHX and YYC. Maybe someone with knowledge of what is allowable under US regs might comment whether these were actual breaches or not, as I'm strongly minded to complain (but won't if its all normal).

1. Pax sitting next to me had a full sized laptop on his lap during taxi and take-off (top folded, off). He was 1D, with 2 FAs in their jump seats immediately adjacent; in plain view. Surely this isn't allowed in the US?

2. About 2 minutes into flight, when craft still over Phoenix in a gradual climb, a business pax jumps up and goes to the toilet. He passed the 2 FAs just as one was saying in the post take-off announcement: ... please stay seated with your seat belts on ... . Sure, the PAX may have been desperate, but neither of the FAs turned so much as a hair. It was if the guy was invisible. After he came out, another guy went in. FAs still in their seats; again, no reaction.

3. Window shades down all over the cabin during take-off. I've seen this before in the US; maybe its OK?

4. Canadian regs require all electronic devices to be off on take-off and landing, as per old rules in many places (ie flight mode not good enough). Announcement was made as we descended into Calgary and as far as I could see, pax complied. But the second FA was happily looking at stuff on her phone even as the one beside her made the announcement, and continued with it and still had it in her hand as we touched down.

Were these breaches of US regs, or don't I fly in the US enough?

 

[blackcat20]

They dont have the window shade regulation that we do.

I've only flown US in Y and found the crew really good, especially managing the excess cabin baggage. One FA stood near the middle and kept radioing the door FA to advise how much space was left.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

One thing to remember about the former US Airways is that when AA's current CEO Doug Parker started as CEO of US, he changed their stock exchange ticker symbol to "LCC", given his desire to turn it into a Low Cost Carrier. They also still haven't bedded down employee relations following the US Airways and America West merger back in 2005 (!).

 

[Katie]

I flew US flights between LAX and YVR in Oct, all in F. LAX-PHX-YVR-LAX. I found them to be underwhelming. Offered only snacks on all flights (makes sense for PHX-YVR); I had not been expecting to get into Vancouver after 11pm without a dinner on-board. I expected, based on their website, to get a meal on YVR-LAX, ~5:30 or 6pm departure, based on flight time. Only offered snacks from the snack basket.

Very strange when compared to AA.

I also flew with them between PHX and LAX in May, and they preferred window shades down while on the ground in PHX due to the outside heat.

 

[TomVexille]

Knowing someone who works for AA, they are none to happy with the idea that AA will be "dragged down" to the level of US.

 

[kevrosmith]

I've only flown US once between BOS-DCA late last August in F, and I was very surprised at the difference in service and attitude/attention of the crew compared to AA (who I've done quite a few more flights with). Flight time was equivalent to SYD-BNE or SYD-MEL, yet only a drink and something from the snack basket was offered, not a full tray service meal.

The attitude of the crew seemed very lack-lustre and distant, until, that is, I went up and had a chat and offered them a gift (which I'd been doing on my flights around the States).

I'm not surprised by some of your comments. I could probably have described their attention on my flight as a bunch of Soccer-Moms standing around chatting waiting for the kids to finish soccer practice so they can take them home...

Regarding flight-mode regulations, which regulations apply: the country the plane is registered in or the regulations of the airport's country? E.g. prior to Australia changing the flight-mode regulations recently, if a QF plane is departing from JFK, did I have to turn my phone off for take-off? (The QF FA told me I had to turn my phone off, even though the US regulations were that I didn't have to...)

And yep, window shades are all over the place on American flights.

 

[RooFlyer]

<snip>

Regarding flight-mode regulations, which regulations apply: the country the plane is registered in or the regulations of the airport's country? E.g. prior to Australia changing the flight-mode regulations recently, if a QF plane is departing from JFK, did I have to turn my phone off for take-off? (The QF FA told me I had to turn my phone off, even though the US regulations were that I didn't have to...)

And yep, window shades are all over the place on American flights.

I think certainly its regs of the country which the airspace the plane is in*, but the airline can impose its own conditions on top of course.

* Exception seems to be good 'ol Uncle Sam, who has a habit of projecting his requirements beyond his borders. Canadian planes, flying entirely within Canadian airspace are required to obey certain TSA dictates if the flight path is within 200km (or miles?) of the border. I forget which - but it annoys the heck out of the Canadians. Also that announcement Qantas makes when leaving Australia bound for USA ports about not congregating in the vicinity of toilets. "Hey, foreign airline, you don't have to do as we ask, but then again, we don't have to let you into our airspace."

 

[madrooster]

AA meals were better than the US ones.

AA and US meals are the same now as of Sept 2014. Same caterer, cutlery, china and all.

1. Pax sitting next to me had a full sized laptop on his lap during taxi and take-off (top folded, off). He was 1D, with 2 FAs in their jump seats immediately adjacent; in plain view. Surely this isn't allowed in the US?

Definitely not permitted.

2. About 2 minutes into flight, when craft still over Phoenix in a gradual climb, a business pax jumps up and goes to the toilet. He passed the 2 FAs just as one was saying in the post take-off announcement: ... please stay seated with your seat belts on ... . Sure, the PAX may have been desperate, but neither of the FAs turned so much as a hair. It was if the guy was invisible. After he came out, another guy went in. FAs still in their seats; again, no reaction.

FAs often stay in their seat beyond 10000 feet, even though they don't need to be. On a lot of aircraft they actually have no sure way to tell if they are above 10000 feet or not. I've had a few FAs tell me that they normally would not say anything about going to the lavatory but to "use your best judgement" as to whether it is a good time to get up, despite the seat belt sign being on.

3. Window shades down all over the cabin during take-off. I've seen this before in the US; maybe its OK?

This is perfectly OK in the US. They don't mandate that window shades are up for take off or landing. As mentioned above in hot areas like PHX they actively tell you to put the shades down when on the ground to keep the heat out.

4. Canadian regs require all electronic devices to be off on take-off and landing, as per old rules in many places (ie flight mode not good enough). Announcement was made as we descended into Calgary and as far as I could see, pax complied. But the second FA was happily looking at stuff on her phone even as the one beside her made the announcement, and continued with it and still had it in her hand as we touched down.

Not since late May 2014.

Airlines can expand passengers' use of portable electronics - Transport Canada
Ottawa to allow air passengers to use electronic devices on takeoff, landing - Politics - CBC News
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/mediaroom/video-electronic-devices-flight-7527.html

Canada might be a little behind their US neighbour but not that behind...

I flew US flights between LAX and YVR in Oct, all in F. LAX-PHX-YVR-LAX. I found them to be underwhelming. Offered only snacks on all flights (makes sense for PHX-YVR); I had not been expecting to get into Vancouver after 11pm without a dinner on-board. I expected, based on their website, to get a meal on YVR-LAX, ~5:30 or 6pm departure, based on flight time. Only offered snacks from the snack basket.

Very strange when compared to AA.

This is the new AA/US combined meal policy as of Sept 2014. Basically no proper meals on flights less than ~2h30m now. This is a shorter flight time than US used to serve meals, but a longer flight time than what AA used to do.

 

[RooFlyer]

Thanks madrooster . FWIW, for clarification:

<snip>

FAs often stay in their seat beyond 10000 feet, even though they don't need to be. On a lot of aircraft they actually have no sure way to tell if they are above 10000 feet or not. I've had a few FAs tell me that they normally would not say anything about going to the lavatory but to "use your best judgement" as to whether it is a good time to get up, despite the seat belt sign being on.

<snip>.

We were definitely well below 10,000 ft; only a couple of minutes into flight, on a low angle climb over the city. Flight Aware tells me that we reached 9,000 in 3 minutes . If the FAs are allowed discretion at this stage, OK; but I'm surprised. Still subject to hot air turbulence especially in an desert environment like Phoenix and surrounds.

Like I said, the guy may have been desperate, but what I would have expected was for the FA not doing the announcement to challenge him; then maybe he says 'I GOTTA GO' and she lets him.

<snip>

Not since late May 2014.

Airlines can expand passengers' use of portable electronics - Transport Canada
Ottawa to allow air passengers to use electronic devices on takeoff, landing - Politics - CBC News
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/mediaroom/video-electronic-devices-flight-7527.html

Canada might be a little behind their US neighbour but not that behind...

I stand corrected re the regs. However I've commented on this before; there is something funny going on. I fly into Canada, usually ex US, 4 to 5 times a year and as far as I can recall they are still making the request to 'turn off ALL electronic devices, including cell phones'. This was definitely the case on the flight I was on. I kept my phone on (flight mode; I was reading a book on it) and the FA leaned over and asked me to turn it off. This made what her fellow FA was doing on descent all the more galling!

 

[RooFlyer]

As an aside, on the merger issue; not complaints, just observations.

On AA.com I couldn't select seats, pe-select meal or otherwise 'see' details of the US legs of my ticket other than base departure/arrival type stuff. Obviously the merger isn't complete yet and maybe they haven't been allowed to merge booking engines yet, but I was a little surprised. I didn't bother going to US Air MMB.

I asked one of the AA FAs about the status of the merger - reply was a bit of a laugh and a comment that (turning to another FA) ' probably won't be happening until the end of the year now, right? '

US Air lounges have been re-named Admiral's Club. At AA Admiral's Clubs at DFW (both ways), my BP got me in - it had my AA membership number, as it was an AA miles booking, with no status, just J class. At the ex US Air Admirals Club in PHX, the lounge dragon wasn't going to let me in based on the F BP 'because you aren't flying out of Nth America'. This sounds like the old US Air rule? I dug out my QF card with OW Sapphire and that satisfied her.

The ex US lounge at Pier B at PHX bizarrely had better food and drink than the AA lounge at DFW Terminal C. At 7am the DFW lounge (left) had bagels for toasting, mini muffins, fruit, water and a coffee machine. No juice or anything else and believe me, I looked as I was after breakfast and wasn't going to pay at the bar for what they could supply.

The ex US lounge at PHX (right) at 11am had bagels, cream cheese, cereals, yoghurt, fruit, orange juice, chips and a coffee machine.

I know US lounges are traditionally coughpy for food and bev, but I thought it mildly amusing that the meagre offering at PHX was better than the meagre offering at DFW.

 

[madrooster]

Like I said, the guy may have been desperate, but what I would have expected was for the FA not doing the announcement to challenge him; then maybe he says 'I GOTTA GO' and she lets him.

I stand corrected re the regs. However I've commented on this before; there is something funny going on. I fly into Canada, usually ex US, 4 to 5 times a year and as far as I can recall they are still making the request to 'turn off ALL electronic devices, including cell phones'. This was definitely the case on the flight I was on. I kept my phone on (flight mode; I was reading a book on it) and the FA leaned over and asked me to turn it off. This made what her fellow FA was doing on descent all the more galling!

A FA letting the person go would actually get them in trouble... not getting involved is better for them from a legal perspective ie. "I didn't see you do it".

Numerous FAs can't remember the regs and where they apply, given it's a reasonably recent ongoing change, so I'm not surprised really.

For a little while, before CASA allowed PEDs in AU gate to gate, NZ CAA had already allowed it. As a result, on Jetconnect flights across the Tasman PEDs were allowed gate to gate, yet on AU domestics at the time they still weren't allowed.

 

[drron]

I have seen the future for AA and it is ugly.Flying US PHL-CDG.
No checkin agents at all.Everyone must use Kiosks.Absolutely useless.Got right through to our seat allocation and put in that we had 1 checked bag eack when it defaults saying my passport wasn't recognised.So go through the whole procedure again.Get to same spot,says cant recognise my passport again.Have to enter details manually and comes up that it cant proceed and c all an agent.So taken to a bag drop agen t not busy and checked in manually.
The agent then asks me whether I live in Paris-no I live in Australia."how far is Paris from Australia?"I kid you not.So I answer just the other side of the earth.So her next question-"so how to you propose to get to Paris?".Gee I thought I was checking in for the Paris flight.
Double checked that the bags were tagged to CDG.

At least keeping up our 100% record for TSA precheck with US.Only 1 problem.There is no precheck line.Everyone lines up together and when you get to the agent checking passports you are told congratulations you don't have to take off your shoes,jacket and belt.
Only 1 xray working for carryons.We are about 5 and 6 in line for our bags to go through.And everything stops for 10 minutes.They then open up the second Xray but only allow direct access to it from the agents checking the BPs.When finally it starts moving one goose going through the body scanner has stull in his pockets-empties one pocket into a blue bowl but has another pocket needing to be emptied.And you guessed it repeated a third time.
Now through security are the BA J and F lounges.Didn't even try as so many reports that if flying AA entrance is denied.When you get to the AC you realise why.Incredibly small and people standing.We were lucky and got 2 seats in the hallway.
Wine not complimentary.Ask for our coupons and told in no uncertain terms we are allowed just 1 each.So an international pax in J allowed 1 free drink if with QF but if with the local program-stiff cheese-which it was.

So welcome to Doug Parker's world.

 

[Mattg]

I have seen the future for AA and it is ugly.Flying US PHL-CDG.
No checkin agents at all.Everyone must use Kiosks.Absolutely useless.Got right through to our seat allocation and put in that we had 1 checked bag eack when it defaults saying my passport wasn't recognised.So go through the whole procedure again.Get to same spot,says cant recognise my passport again.Have to enter details manually and comes up that it cant proceed and c all an agent.So taken to a bag drop agen t not busy and checked in manually.
The agent then asks me whether I live in Paris-no I live in Australia."how far is Paris from Australia?"I kid you not.So I answer just the other side of the earth.So her next question-"so how to you propose to get to Paris?".Gee I thought I was checking in for the Paris flight.
Double checked that the bags were tagged to CDG.

At least keeping up our 100% record for TSA precheck with US.Only 1 problem.There is no precheck line.Everyone lines up together and when you get to the agent checking passports you are told congratulations you don't have to take off your shoes,jacket and belt.
Only 1 xray working for carryons.We are about 5 and 6 in line for our bags to go through.And everything stops for 10 minutes.They then open up the second Xray but only allow direct access to it from the agents checking the BPs.When finally it starts moving one goose going through the body scanner has stull in his pockets-empties one pocket into a blue bowl but has another pocket needing to be emptied.And you guessed it repeated a third time.
Now through security are the BA J and F lounges.Didn't even try as so many reports that if flying AA entrance is denied.When you get to the AC you realise why.Incredibly small and people standing.We were lucky and got 2 seats in the hallway.
Wine not complimentary.Ask for our coupons and told in no uncertain terms we are allowed just 1 each.So an international pax in J allowed 1 free drink if with QF but if with the local program-stiff cheese-which it was.

So welcome to Doug Parker's world.

Yikes. These comments have reinforced my view that AA/US shall be an airline of last resort. Especially coming from someone who usually speaks quite favourably of AA.

 

[serfty]

There are at least three AC's at PHL ... one is astride a concourse and about 200 metres in length and 25 wide ... which one did you use?

Having posted that, reading FT it seems there is a cultural problem with the old USairways (which have been renamed Admiral's Clubs) lounges and staff.

 

[RooFlyer]

Interesting re Pre-check (the granting, not the non-line).

Your experience re kiosk check-in mirrors mine. If I am forced to them, I hit Ooops! Wrong keys! to get rejection until it or the human nearby allows manual check-in (same as not even trying to follow Telstra's phone menus).

I gather at PHL it was an ex US lounge; again mirrors my experience where the 'AC' dragons were still enforcing US lounge rules.

Will look with interest to your TR with the in air details.

 

[drron]

Well things have not improved but hopefully not due to a "culture problem."Pushback 30 minutes late as had to replenish 4 O2 cylinders as a medical emergency on incoming service.
Get to runway and Captain announces an air bleed problem and says service will depart at 9pm.Whilst typing service is cancelled.

 

[drron]

Update.After 45 minutes at the AC the very inefficient agents said they had us booked on BA PHL-LHR-Orly.
Said run to gate.Did that.Ba agent says no youre not.
So back in the AC.

 

[RooFlyer]

I'm going to be afraid to open the next instalment ...

 

[dk4]

No checkin agents at all.Everyone must use Kiosks.

I encountered this last year with United as well. Flying Global First, and I had to use a kiosk: the agent at the counter said she couldn't help. And of course the kiosk told me to see an agent, :shock: given it wasn't capable of handling the complexities of my travel - so the agent who couldn't help before, ended up having to check me in anyway.

I think that the protection offered to airlines in the USA, from "chapter 11, don't bother paying your debts" through to "too big to fail concepts", means that many really don't bother to try any more!

 

[drron]

Back in the airport.After another hour in the AC last night we are now booked PHL-EWR-ORY the long leg on BA.
Initially we were told the only option was todays US PHL-CDG flight in Y.Mrsdrron's response-No it's not.
She then rang an AA supervisor in Dallas,put him on the speaker phone and in 5 minutes he had our alternate itinerary organised.

US had also then run out of hotel vouchers so book a hotel and the cost will be refunded.Just bring your recepts here tomorrow.
So this morning arrived at ticketing in B terminal.Handed over the printout to the agent who said-What's this?
Our new itinerary.Took a long time just to get BPs for the PHL-EWR sector.
Then came the inevitable US agent's doozy-Where's ORY-and she said ory rather than letter by letter.Took a little while to sink in that it was another airport for Paris.

Kept up our 100% record for TSA precheck but no TSA line again at Terminal B.Went to the AC club at gate A16-much bigger,brighter and well stocked than the one at A6 where we were yesterday-our flight was leaving from A12 just across from A6.
So rock into the AC and mrsdrron produces the receipt for last night-we don't do that here you will either have to go back to ticketing or Customer service airside-so I said that is the one near A19-yes but it only opens at 1530.Boarding in the F terminal for us begins at 1535.
Total fail for US.
Now for baggage.Have been reassured they will be on our flights and be there at ORY.Somehow I am feeling this might not be the case.

Just as a piece of interest.At the agent to our left a woman came up and said I cant use these things.Agent said you must.The woman pressed a few buttons and exclaimed "Oh dear it says I must see an agent!"
To our right a young woman doing a bag drop.I noticed her bag was 50.6 pounds weight.Agent made her repack.In fact many were repacking in the time we spent getting ticketed.

So I am certainly not going to be buying any more AA miles.