US and CA trip planning - ferry, float plane or chopper and trains

[Matt_01]

Hi, thought I would reach out to those who may have done something similar. Our 2022 travel plans have changed a couple of times but think we have settled on the US and Canada. Travel is not until the Sep/Oct school holidays so heaps of time to plan and as we have all been to the US and Canada I am well aware of most of the standard travel stuff, the Covid rules I will not even worry about until closer to the travel dates. One of my aims is to stay away from airports and unnecessary flights. It is not a long trip as we are only taking MissM out of school for an extra couple of weeks and it is around 4 weeks.

We will arrive in SEA for a few days with the next port of call been Victoria, BC. The option of catching the ferry (about 3 hours) leaving from central Seattle and arrives at Victoria Harbour seems feasible and well within walking distance. From what I have read you need to do all the immigration and customs activities at Victoria and there does not seem like there is pre-clearance from the US side. From memory pre-clearance was available to the US but not to Canada but maybe wrong.

Next will be getting over to Vancouver, Harbour Air departs from Victoria Harbour and arrives at Vancouver Harbour (35 minutes) should be walking distance. I generally dislike travelling in small aircraft and have never been on a float plane, is there any differences in the take-off or landing from water when compared to land. The other option is Helijet (35 minutes) and for some strange reason I would much rather fly in a chopper than small fixed wing. On these small aircraft if your luggage does not fit do they just bring in over on the next available service. Luggage is a consideration as Mrs&MissM are not known to travel light and as it is a family trip I will most likely be asked to bring luggage as well. I do not think weight will be the issue rather the room available in small aircraft. This seems like a good option and the fall back would be to fly YYJ-YVR.

On to trains, when planning YUL-JFK/LGA/EWR I found out there was a train service and are considering travelling on the Adirondack (Amtrak). Some searching on YouTube and Goggle suggests that it is not uncomfortable or unpleasant however it takes 10 hours. As travel will be early autumn/fall the trip may be quite scenic as the foliage should be turning. We have not done a 10 hour train trip before but on the upside it is during the day and we like train travel, maybe less so after 10 hours.

Final considerations, we do have a YVR-YUL flight that has been booked on WS using QF points however I am unsure if I will keep it. I thought seat selection and luggage was included however when I go to MMB on the WS site it looks like seat selection is charged and luggage does not seem to be included. I also suspect we will not get access to the WS lounge if there is one, is this others experience. We are looking at booking revenue flights and our status is of no value in Canada, I suspect my *G (SQ) may at best allow me to take one guest into the AC lounges if I book Y but have not checked. As the flight is 5-6 hours we are looking at J options on AC the prices seem high, WS is cheaper and TS is the cheapest and maybe the best option. After looking at FR24 TS is currently not operating YVR-YUL so will just have to wait and see what happens and may book revenue closer to the date.

Any ideas or thoughts appreciated.

 

[Matt_01]

Now on to the next part are there any recommendation for accomodation Seattle, Victoria, BC, Vancouver, Montreal and Manhattan. There are 3 of us and normally would just book in the Hilton chain (I have diamond, MrsM is gold). I am considering using other chains as I seem to recall reading a while back the Hilton in the US free breakfast is not available any more but not sure. Also the hiltons we have previously stayed at while in the US have been hit and miss and there was a recent post by another member which indicated their experience at the Vancouver Hilton was not the best. In Montreal access to any type of executive lounge is not a consideration as MissM will not be allowed to enter (a Quebec law). Manhattan I am most familiar with and tend to stay in the midtown area but not wedded to that. As for status I also have Discovery titanium, Bonvoy gold, Shangri-La jade however happy to stay outside of the chains, accomodation just needs to be comfortable and centrally located.

Currently the only bookings I have made are in Seattle at the Mayflower Park Hotel on arrival day and the DoubleTree at EWR the night before we return. These can be changed/ cancelled and I am open to anything.

 

[Matt_01]

Also looking for any restaurant or places to eat at across the above locations. We are not that fussy if it is casual or fine dining we have eaten at michelin star restaurants but just as happy with a pizza place, deli or street food. For Manhattan I have eaten at quite a few places but cannot remember the names and not even sure if they still open. I had asked a similar question in late 2019 or very early 2020 as we had plans for 2020 but for the life of me cannot not find that post.

 

[trooper]

If I were you I would investigate the baggage situation VERY carefully for the float plane flights. Depending on fare class the allowance can be from 50lbs (which is the absolute limit for a bag) to as little as TEN lb. Dimensions of baggage can be very restrictive also depending on aircraft type... (I looked at flying with them once some years ago...but having 2 "normal" full size bags on the trip made it impossible - or perhaps just VERY difficult) Having said that..if you have time...and if you like aircraft... a lunch at the restaurant overlooking the float plane base may be worthwhile. (I enjoyed it thoroughly) Having flown in a Beaver floatplane in Sydney (rather than Canada) my experience was that the takeoff can be quite bumpy..which of course depends entirely on the water state. I THINK Victoria Harbour is quite placid... so you may be spared the loud thumps we experienced...

 

[RooFlyer]

Sorry, missed this until now.

Next will be getting over to Vancouver, Harbour Air departs from Victoria Harbour and arrives at Vancouver Harbour (35 minutes) should be walking distance. I generally dislike travelling in small aircraft and have never been on a float plane, is there any differences in the take-off or landing from water when compared to land.

The float planes land in Vancouver's inner harbour, and pull up at a pier almost right downtown. Shouldn't be an issue in landing - its like taking a cab (ie there are numerous ones coming and going). Maybe some potholes, but just relax and enjoy the scenery.

But there is (used to be) a car ferry from Victoria (or is it Sidney?) to Vancouver, which is also great.

YYJ-YVR on commercial is a PITA - a 45 min ride becomes 3-4 hours with all the airport hassle,.

The ferry between Seattle and Victoria is awesome - through the well-named Orca Islands.

Now on to the next part are there any recommendation for accomodation Seattle, Victoria, BC, Vancouver, Montreal and Manhattan.

Vancouver - avoid the Pan Pacific - totally touristy and over-priced for what you get. I used to stay at the Fairmont on West Georgia St (there are 2 others), but was never thrilled about it, for the cost. Its one of the old style Fairmont 'railway' hotels/chateaus. "Fairmont Hotel Vancouver" - Luxury Hotel in "Vancouver" - Fairmont, Hotels & Resorts

Sorry, no recommendations, but if you come up with a few names I may be able to give pros and cons on locations.

Montreal - the Chateau!

And Toronto - the King Eddie!

Also looking for any restaurant or places to eat at across the above locations. We are not that fussy if it is casual or fine dining we have eaten at michelin star restaurants but just as happy with a pizza place, deli or street food.

Vancouver - Lift on the waterfront near the Westin. If its fine enough outside has fantastic views over the Harbour; or more casual (but extensive) Carderos nearby, also on the water. Yaletown-Roundhouse is a subway ride away and has lots of 'cool' (read upmarket uni types) places to eat.

Try the BC wines - not bad. Blasted Church.

 

[RooFlyer]

Forgot to add - for Manhattan, check out the Algonquin. I think its a Marriott. I stayed there once, and couldn't afford to again But I think it will appeal to you & family. I'd drool at a TR on it.

Finest Luxury - Hotel Near Times Square | The Algonquin Hotel

The Algonquin Hotel is a magnet for the Literati that were drawn to the finest luxury hotel near Times Square. Take the journey to discover luxury accommodations.

www.algonquinhotel.com

 

[kookaburra75]

On to trains, when planning YUL-JFK/LGA/EWR I found out there was a train service and are considering travelling on the Adirondack (Amtrak). Some searching on YouTube and Goggle suggests that it is not uncomfortable or unpleasant however it takes 10 hours. As travel will be early autumn/fall the trip may be quite scenic as the foliage should be turning. We have not done a 10 hour train trip before but on the upside it is during the day and we like train travel, maybe less so after 10 hours.

MrsK and I took the train from New York to Montreal (the Adirondack ), which does take ten hours - one hour was a wait at the Canadian border waiting for the officials to do their bit. It was great. It left from Penn Station which is a central location and pulled into central Montreal. It was very comfortable, wide seats, heating, wifi and a dining/bar car. Although once you cross the US/Canadian border, the bar closes - but as that is the last hour or so of the trip it wasn't a problem.

The scenery is fantastic, and in autumn/fall it will be spectacular. We did the trip in March, so it was all snow and the local lads out on the ice fishing, with their Hiluxes parked out on the frozen rivers and lakes. There was one stop at Albany, but otherwise it was straight through.

We had no issues with luggage, as we were travelling with just one suitcase each. Check their website for details Amtrak Baggage Policy

 

[kookaburra75]

Now on to the next part are there any recommendation for accomodation Seattle, Victoria, BC, Vancouver, Montreal and Manhattan. There are 3 of us and normally would just book in the Hilton chain (I have diamond, MrsM is gold). I am considering using other chains as I seem to recall reading a while back the Hilton in the US free breakfast is not available any more but not sure. Also the hiltons we have previously stayed at while in the US have been hit and miss and there was a recent post by another member which indicated their experience at the Vancouver Hilton was not the best. In Montreal access to any type of executive lounge is not a consideration as MissM will not be allowed to enter (a Quebec law). Manhattan I am most familiar with and tend to stay in the midtown area but not wedded to that. As for status I also have Discovery titanium, Bonvoy gold, Shangri-La jade however happy to stay outside of the chains, accomodation just needs to be comfortable and centrally located.

In New York, we stayed at the Staybridge Suites Times Square, which was a nice place to stay and being an apartment, we stocked up with food from nearby shops for breakfasts and lunches. There was even a bottle shop that had Penfolds. Although the street is a little bit dodgy with the Parole Reporting Centre a couple of doors down. But we never had any issues. Despite the name, it's a couple of blocks walk from Time Square but lots of good eating places nearby. And, it was only a five minute walk to Penn Station.

In Montreal, we stayed at Hotel Bonaparte, which was close to everything. It had its own character, and certainly not like the big chains, which was what we were after.

 

[ausfox]

Hi, thought I would reach out to those who may have done something similar. Our 2022 travel plans have changed a couple of times but think we have settled on the US and Canada. Travel is not until the Sep/Oct school holidays so heaps of time to plan and as we have all been to the US and Canada I am well aware of most of the standard travel stuff, the Covid rules I will not even worry about until closer to the travel dates. One of my aims is to stay away from airports and unnecessary flights. It is not a long trip as we are only taking MissM out of school for an extra couple of weeks and it is around 4 weeks.

We will arrive in SEA for a few days with the next port of call been Victoria, BC. The option of catching the ferry (about 3 hours) leaving from central Seattle and arrives at Victoria Harbour seems feasible and well within walking distance. From what I have read you need to do all the immigration and customs activities at Victoria and there does not seem like there is pre-clearance from the US side. From memory pre-clearance was available to the US but not to Canada but maybe wrong.

Next will be getting over to Vancouver, Harbour Air departs from Victoria Harbour and arrives at Vancouver Harbour (35 minutes) should be walking distance. I generally dislike travelling in small aircraft and have never been on a float plane, is there any differences in the take-off or landing from water when compared to land. The other option is Helijet (35 minutes) and for some strange reason I would much rather fly in a chopper than small fixed wing. On these small aircraft if your luggage does not fit do they just bring in over on the next available service. Luggage is a consideration as Mrs&MissM are not known to travel light and as it is a family trip I will most likely be asked to bring luggage as well. I do not think weight will be the issue rather the room available in small aircraft. This seems like a good option and the fall back would be to fly YYJ-YVR.

On to trains, when planning YUL-JFK/LGA/EWR I found out there was a train service and are considering travelling on the Adirondack (Amtrak). Some searching on YouTube and Goggle suggests that it is not uncomfortable or unpleasant however it takes 10 hours. As travel will be early autumn/fall the trip may be quite scenic as the foliage should be turning. We have not done a 10 hour train trip before but on the upside it is during the day and we like train travel, maybe less so after 10 hours.

Final considerations, we do have a YVR-YUL flight that has been booked on WS using QF points however I am unsure if I will keep it. I thought seat selection and luggage was included however when I go to MMB on the WS site it looks like seat selection is charged and luggage does not seem to be included. I also suspect we will not get access to the WS lounge if there is one, is this others experience. We are looking at booking revenue flights and our status is of no value in Canada, I suspect my *G (SQ) may at best allow me to take one guest into the AC lounges if I book Y but have not checked. As the flight is 5-6 hours we are looking at J options on AC the prices seem high, WS is cheaper and TS is the cheapest and maybe the best option. After looking at FR24 TS is currently not operating YVR-YUL so will just have to wait and see what happens and may book revenue closer to the date.

Any ideas or thoughts appreciated.

We have travelled on the Adirondack Northward and found it comfortable, relaxing and interesting.

 

[Maca44]

It would appear that the US/Canada boarder is closed to trains (according to the Amtrak schedule for THIS route), but may open by the time of your travel, therefore have you considered taking the Amtrak Cascades from Seattle to Vancouver BC. I have done it several times and the views are fantastic. Leaves from King Street Station. Prices are reasonable, and from memory about US$90? o/w for business class. You don't clear customs until you arrive in Vancouver, and business class pax go through customs first. The Skytrain is 100 met from Pacific Central Station.

https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/timetables/Amtrak-Cascades-Schedule-052421.pdf

I have also taken the float plane a few times from Vancouver to Victoria and Maple Bay, although the car ferry (BC Ferries) is a great trip also. There is a great ferry that leaves Sidney just out of Victoria and make several stops in the San Juan island group, but unfortunately ends in Anacortes WA, back in USA so maybe next time.

 

[Matt_01]

If I were you I would investigate the baggage situation VERY carefully for the float plane flights. Depending on fare class the allowance can be from 50lbs (which is the absolute limit for a bag) to as little as TEN lb. Dimensions of baggage can be very restrictive also depending on aircraft type... (I looked at flying with them once some years ago...but having 2 "normal" full size bags on the trip made it impossible - or perhaps just VERY difficult)

Thanks for this information I sent an enquiry to Harbour Air and although we are guaranteed weight restricted to 50lbs each there is another 50lbs on standby and over 100lbs you can pay for extra weight, my concern was more around volume. They came back to me and indicated that I can drop off all the bags in the morning and they would carry them across and can be stored at the Vancouver end for CAD10 and I would be able to collect them we our flight arrives, essentially freight. Helijet was more restrictive 50lbs each (total) no option to pay for additional weight and no answer on what would happen if it cannot fit in the chopper. To be fair when I say Mrs&MissM are not known to travel light their luggage is on the smaller check in size around 60 litres? and a carry on. Also thanks for your response around float plane take offs, if we hit some bumps this is normal and nothing to worry about

 

[Matt_01]

@RooFlyer thanks for chiming in, much appreciated. I am hoping the float plan option works out as this seems the simplest way to get from Victoria to Vancouver. I have seen that there was a ferry between Swartz Bay and Tsawwassen and this may still be an option and YYJ-YVR is last on the options list. The restaurant options have been noted and I will check these out.

Accomodation options in NYC you may have just set me back 2 years. As we have not been able to travel for the past 2 years I have spent this time convincing Mrs&MissM that accomodation is just a place to sleep and booking us into regional SA hotels be it Robe, KI, the Barossa etc. Then you put the Algonquin into the mix and my stupidity for showing them the hotel details, yes this place is right up their ally.

 

[jastel]

Hi Matt

Did you end up doing this trip and what options re Seattle to Vancouver did you do?
And did you do the trains to New York?

I am planning a similar trip, was planning to rent a car but very $$$$ now, so thinking along Public Transport lines now.

Any other tips for Canada?

Thanks

 

[Matt_01]

@jastel we did this trip and a trip report can be found Here. We caught the ferry between Seattle and Victoria, it is and easy journey as it leaves from and arrives in town. We booked the the upstairs front section which was quite nice but if I was to do it again I would head downstairs and to the back of the ferry before it docks. The top front section is the last to disembark so you get caught being almost last to clear customs. We used the sea plane service between Victoria and Vancouver depending on the fare class you book you can get anywhere between a few pounds of luggage to guaranteed 50Lb with an additional 50Lb as standby. As we were not flying out until late afternoon we just dropped our luggage off after check out and they moved it across during the day and it was waiting for use on the Vancouver side and from memory they charged us a $10 storage fee. The sea plane terminal if walking from most hotels and was easy to get to. The chopper service was slightly more expensive and luggage was capped at 50Lb, helipads on the Victoria side are not that close to town and if you have luggage I would recommend vehicle transport. The helipad is about a 30 minute walk from town.

As for the trains we caught the train between Toronto and Montreal, it was all very easy and civilised. In Toronto our accomodation was about 3 blocks from the station so an easy walk with luggage. At the Montreal end we just transferred to the local line and caught a local train to the closest station to our accomodation. We were not able to catch the train between Montreal and NYC as the Adirondack Line had not recommenced operating. The Maple Leaf Line (Toronto to NYC) had recommenced however we were after the Adirondack Line due to the time of the year and the route. We ending flying YUL-LGA, if you also use *A AC is the better option as CA is the only lounge available in the terminal (CA/US routes) which is also used by AA. I have been to CA a few times but do not consider myself an expert, YVR I tend to walk however the trains I have used are not complicated, in Toronto mainly use the bus system, Montreal only has a 4-5 lines that are all colour coded and exchange stations are easily identifiable. @RooFlyer may have some more suggestions.

 

[RooFlyer]

@RooFlyer may have some more suggestions.

Too long ago for me! And I'm currently slagging off the Quebeccers in Chit Chat so best me not say anything more about that!!

There was a very good TR about trains in Canada here:

A railroad in search of a country (Canada 2022)

Parliament Hill, Ottawa I spent several months last year travelling from Nova Scotia through to British Columbia. In this thread I’ll mainly talk about VIA Rail and the trips I had with them. Although I did travel by air, and with Air Canada, Westjet, Air Transat and the budget airlines, I...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[Quickstatus]

Any other tips for Canada

Canada is a big place - can you narrow down?

 

[jastel]

Thanks for the help.

I am a bit unsure where I want to go myself at this stage. See as much as I can will be the goal.

I booked SYD to LAX in the Qantas DSC offer (Qantas Gold) a while back and have 6 weeks from early Oct to mid Nov to do the trip...not the best weatherwise especially as it gets into Nov but that is when I can go.

I want to do a couple of days in SFO, (been before but want to see friends) then go up to Seattle and visit Boeing and the plane museums there. Then obviously Vancouver, I wasnt sure about driving a rental car over the border thats why I was interested in the Ferry idea.
I travel by myself and with a wheeled backpack, usually under 20kgs.

See Vancouver etc, do the Rocky mountain train, it runs until about half way thru Oct I think so need to do that first. Want to see Rockies area by car as well so might rent one in Calgary or Banff to see the sights.

Not sure about whats in the middle of Canada, so was thinking a train across, get off at one or two places maybe for few days. Been to Toronto and Niagra Falls area so wont waste much time there and then go to Nova Scotia side maybe...
Just been looking at Churchill and the Polar Bears but its a lot of $$$.

A lot will be weather dependant I know, dont want to be driving in the snow and as I am finding out rental cars are very exxy as well now...thought prices might have gone down a bit. I also want to keep it pretty flexible due to weather element.

If weather is too cold I will drop down to USA and see some more there.

Will check out your trip report Matt

Thanks

 

[RooFlyer]

See Vancouver etc, do the Rocky mountain train, it runs until about half way thru Oct I think so need to do that first. Want to see Rockies area by car as well so might rent one in Calgary or Banff to see the sights.

Yes, the Rocky Mountaineer is a great ride. Although it mainly travels down the bottom of the river valleys, so you miss some of the views. So hiring a car in Calgary is an excellent idea. I wrote a couple of trip reports about Calgary and westwards, if you want to check my sig block.

Watch the park police in the National Parks!! 90km/hr limit and they get out with their radars. West of Banff was a favourite spot. Lots of Aussie ski bums in Banff, so a chance of a decent coffee. Check Wild Flour Cafe. Village (not Chateau) at Lake Louise a good place to eat and get groceries. Walk the Lake at Louise of course. Chateau is very expensive for everything.

The Icefields Parkway - highway 93 turnoff north at Lake Louise I'd say would be a must see. Peyto Lake is magnificent; mountains; Athabasca Glacier. Back west at Lake Louise through Golden (compulsory stop at Tim Hortons for donuts and coffee ) then across the top to Revelstoke.# Depending on how long you have and weather, then south down to Kelowna, a great fruit and berry area in summer, or good for wines year-long.

# Fun fact. The highest point on the Trans Canada is on the prairie between Calgary and Canmore - higher than the mountain passes across the Rockies.

Drumheller abt 150km NE of Calgary is a major dinosaur place - a great museum.

Watch school holidays & long weekends. Trans Canada - in fact most highways are a traffic jam at those times. If you do find yourself amongst a holiday, setting out early in the morning is your best bet and plan to stop for lunch outside usual lunch times. There are some V good traffic web sites for BC and Alberta I used to use - web cams, delay notices etc etc. Don't have them book marked any more unfortunately.

Not sure about whats in the middle of Canada, so was thinking a train across, get off at one or two places maybe for few days. Been to Toronto and Niagra Falls area so wont waste much time there and then go to Nova Scotia side maybe...

East of Calgary I agree there's not much for the tourist for a couple of provinces. So yes, train might be the go, but again, if you have time and don't mind the drive, you could loop down into Montana which is also very scenic. Then Interstate 94 then past Chicago and Detroit will get you to Toronto cheaper and maybe quicker than driving across Canada, for instance (fuel, accom and highway quality).

Personally, I'd go onto Newfoundland from Toronto, but more expensive and it will be colder .... Or drop down to Maine - very scenic and also great seafood.

Hope this isn't telling you too much if what you already know

 

[jastel]

Thanks Roo - some good points there.

Yes I am returning before US Thanksgiving, will get Halloween somewhere and Veterans Day but I only just found out Canada has a different thanksgiving date on Oct 9.

Been to Chicago and Detroit briefly before but always an option...how was crossing the border in a rental car? Better to do it on a smaller road/town?

Public Hols are a PITA in Aust too, just did a 8500kms road trip to Melb and back and the Vics had a random public holiday (Labour day?) I was not aware of...had to drive 3 more towns along the road to get a bed.

Dont mind driving across if its affordable so long as no snow, its the best way to feel a country I think (but not a fan of driving in the big cities) I have scored some cheap one way deals in the US on rental cars in the past from the big 4 own websites ($5 per day to drive to x in 7 days etc) but they all seem gone now...most Trip reports are old pre covid...anyone know if these deals are still around?

Now I gotta go see the highest point too!!

Thanks

 

[RooFlyer]

Been years since I crossed the border in a rental - before 9/11 even, so no idea what the procedures are, sorry. But I vaguely recall one thing, that may still be in place. If you enter either Canada or USA from the other, you will need to show that you are going to take the car out again, else they may/will charge you some sort of bond. And it can vary between states/provinces.

Now I gotta go see the highest point too!!

Looks like I've swallowed some local BS ... just checked and Kicking Horse Pass (on the BC/Alberta border) is the highest point:

What is the Highest Point on the Trans-Canada Highway?

What is the Highest Point on the Trans-Canada Highway? Scott Lake Hill, Kicking Horse, Park Bridge, Rogers Pass, Coquihalla Pass are options.

transcanadahighway.com

I heard the 'highest point is on the plains' numerous times while I was working in and around Calgary/Golden - looks like it got better with the telling; it was so unlikely it had to be true!

The point I was referring to is the "highest point east of the Rockies"

PS west of Kamloops and Kelowna, to Vancouver is quite dry and uninteresting until you get most of the way to Vancouver.