US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

[MEL_Traveller]

Dang it always something..
Where do I find those rules?

just google US AIRWAYS MEMBERSHIP GUIDE... it's really short and answers all your questions (it should be the starting point for anyone)

 

[shellthom]

just google US AIRWAYS MEMBERSHIP GUIDE... it's really short and answers all your questions (it should be the starting point for anyone)

haha so simple, thanks. I have been googling USDM rules etc etc and couldn't find anything well apart from all the blogs about how people managed to get this and that ticketed.

I wouldn't have thought to google a membership guide though.

Hmm, ok so I can go to africa asia and south america on a trip involving north america but not legitimately to EU. ok. hmm..
Back to the drawing board.

 

[anat0l]

Nope. The destination is CDG (furthest from SYD). And travel from South Pacific to Europe is not permitted via North America.

People have gotten away with such itineraries (one so proclaimed not too long ago), however I'd probably have a backup option or HUACA.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

haha so simple, thanks. I have been googling USDM rules etc etc and couldn't find anything well apart from all the blogs about how people managed to get this and that ticketed.

I wouldn't have thought to google a membership guide though.

Hmm, ok so I can go to africa asia and south america on a trip involving north america but not legitimately to EU. ok. hmm..
Back to the drawing board.

but you can fly to the USA via the EU. But you need to ensure the USA is your destination. destination = farthest point from departure. Use greatcirclemaper to ascertain that.

 

[shellthom]

but you can fly to the USA via the EU. But you need to ensure the USA is your destination. destination = farthest point from departure. Use greatcirclemaper to ascertain that.

OMG my head will explode..
So - Travel from North America to Europe is not allowed via Asia, and travel between Europe and Japan/North Asia/South Asia/Australia/New Zealand is not permitted via North America.
If I pick say athens which is closer (i'll have to double check) to sydney then calgary its ok?
I thought that it was saying AU-US not ok via EU and AU-EU is not ok via US but its not its saying americans can't take the long way to EU and Australians cant take the 'round the world' way to EU but if your going to the US you can get there by shortest available means which might be through lower EU??

 

[bcworld]

but you can fly to the USA via the EU. But you need to ensure the USA is your destination. destination = farthest point from departure. Use greatcirclemaper to ascertain that.

I think that's impossible if you want to stop in CDG. SYD-CDG is about 400mi more than SYD-BOS for example.

SYD-YYC is only 8183mi...that's 1000mi less than SYD-IST (9300mi).

Either way there has to be some serious compromising.

Or, make the CDG a layover <24 hours.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

OMG my head will explode..
So - Travel from North America to Europe is not allowed via Asia, and travel between Europe and Japan/North Asia/South Asia/Australia/New Zealand is not permitted via North America.
If I pick say athens which is closer (i'll have to double check) to sydney then calgary its ok?
I thought that it was saying AU-US not ok via EU and AU-EU is not ok via US but its not its saying americans can't take the long way to EU and Australians cant take the 'round the world' way to EU but if your going to the US you can get there by shortest available means which might be through lower EU??

no - you are reading too much in to it. it is exactly as it says. no tricks.

you can only travel to USA with a stopover in the EU if the destination is in the USA.

In your example, if Athens is closer then then that is OK, however you will still likely pay the Europe award as the stopover is in the higher zone.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think that's impossible if you want to stop in CDG. SYD-CDG is about 400mi more than SYD-BOS for example.

SYD-YYC is only 8183mi...that's 1000mi less than SYD-IST (9300mi).

Either way there has to be some serious compromising.

Or, make the CDG a layover <24 hours.

agreed - you need to play around a bit with stopover vs destination.

 

[smit0847]

People have gotten away with such itineraries (one so proclaimed not too long ago), however I'd probably have a backup option or HUACA.

Yeah Im with you - find a clueless agent and you can get away with murder. My advice is always if you have the time and the paitence, pick your dream itinerary (within reason) and try and book it. HUACA a few times if they say no. If you get several repeated 'no's, then go back to the drawing board and choose something that fits more within the rules.

With perserverance and the right agent sometimes it seems like you're only limited by your imagination!

 

[anat0l]

I think that's impossible if you want to stop in CDG. SYD-CDG is about 400mi more than SYD-BOS for example.

SYD-YYC is only 8183mi...that's 1000mi less than SYD-IST (9300mi).

Either way there has to be some serious compromising.

Or, make the CDG a layover <24 hours.

I'm not entirely sure it is that rigid.

My parents did BNE to EWR with stopover in LHR. Notwithstanding that breaks at least one rule already...

 

[shellthom]

agreed - you need to play around a bit with stopover vs destination.

Oh yes I knew YYZ (toronto) but i was thinking of what I already had which was YYC as thats not super far to drive...
So I have found SYD-YVR-YYZ-IST-ATH-IST(or MUC)-BKK-SYD could leave ath off the ticket and stick with IST as a stop over I guess. Haven't been to either.
The trip as a whole fits into the 25m but the way home is over. If I take ATH out and have IST as the stop over then its under each way.
Paying EU price is ok really because we get to go to both in J for less than the Y flight would cost to buy.. admittedly we do still need to buy a flight or hire a car from YYZ to GEG but again never been to canada or washington state so still makes for a better holiday.

 

[shellthom]

I have been saving the dates and paths as I go, so I will talk to the +1 and see what he is more interested in and try that first who knows which he will pick (I am guessing the Istanbul/Canada one actually) - but it will probably be the completely legal one that I can't actually book because no availability showing to US agents..

Yeah Im with you - find a clueless agent and you can get away with murder. My advice is always if you have the time and the paitence, pick your dream itinerary (within reason) and try and book it. HUACA a few times if they say no. If you get several repeated 'no's, then go back to the drawing board and choose something that fits more within the rules.

With perserverance and the right agent sometimes it seems like you're only limited by your imagination!

 

[hummel]

On the topic of destination/stopovers.

I am planning a GUM trip for later this next year.

Looking at MEL-BKK-HKG-GUM-NGO-ICN-SIN-MEL

Destination being GUM, stopover in NGO hopefully... I can't seem to find any MEL-SIN/BKK-NGO on the dates/times I want.

 

[bcworld]

.. admittedly we do still need to buy a flight or hire a car from YYZ to GEG but again never been to canada or washington state so still makes for a better holiday.

You realise how far this is!!?

https://maps.google.com.au/maps?sad...wXBieVDGx2YQL1sn83Q&oq=spokane&t=h&mra=ls&z=5

 

[shellthom]

Haha yeah, I once drove - Champaign/Urbana to devils tower there via Kansas and Mt Rushmore, back via montana north dekota and wisconsin then went to a graduation ceremony.
Then over to Kittery Maine via Niagara Falls and then through New York and Washington DC and Back via the turnpike for the grad party.
Then down to New Orleans via Graceland and a quick stop in Little Rock, over to Miami (Tampa) and up through Georgia and North and south carolina.

I wouldn't mind doing something the same through Canada.
Or take the +1 to see some of those things I saw.
It was a great trip but I was driving by myself. Just slept in the car, side of the road, beaches... slept 1 night in the car at like a truckers rest stop but was yelled at by my friends parents so didn't do it again which really made it tough.
I only remember staying in one hotel and that was in kittery as I went to meet a friend but she didn't answer the door and I was waiting for her so I booked into a hotel. The worst part she was home but I didn't have the internet to find out in time .
Each trip was just a few days.

You realise how far this is!!?

https://maps.google.com.au/maps?sad...wXBieVDGx2YQL1sn83Q&oq=spokane&t=h&mra=ls&z=5

 

[smit0847]

On the topic of destination/stopovers.

I am planning a GUM trip for later this next year.

Looking at MEL-BKK-HKG-GUM-NGO-ICN-SIN-MEL
Destination being GUM, stopover in NGO hopefully... I can't seem to find any MEL-SIN/BKK-NGO on the dates/times I want.

I booked MEL-SIN-NGO about 9 months out - look for SQ208 out of MEL - it connects very nicely with SQ672 to NGO (although a wafer-thin connection in SIN). There seems to always be space on SQ208 - I'm guessing because of it's awful arrival time into SIN being too late to make onwards European and SEA connections (it seems to be only good for North Asian connections). Consider HND too - better SQ availability than NRT and more convenient to Tokyo than NGO. I don't think there's any issue with flying into HND and out of NRT as they are a city pair.

Coming back I've got GUM-KIX-BKK-MEL on UA TG TG. No issues with availability there either. Consider BR GUM-TPE-SIN/BKK etc - a much nicer way to get out of GUM than on UA and if you have already had your stopover on the outbound there's no real reason to transit Japan on the way back too.

Did you find direct UA J availability HKG-GUM? I've only ever seen Y offered. Consider HKG for your stopover instead - it might give you some more options.

 

[hummel]

I booked MEL-SIN-NGO about 9 months out - look for SQ208 out of MEL - it connects very nicely with SQ672 to NGO (although a wafer-thin connection in SIN). There seems to always be space on SQ208 - I'm guessing because of it's awful arrival time into SIN being too late to make onwards European and SEA connections (it seems to be only good for North Asian connections). Consider HND too - better SQ availability than NRT and more convenient to Tokyo than NGO. I don't think there's any issue with flying into HND and out of NRT as they are a city pair.

Coming back I've got GUM-KIX-BKK-MEL on UA TG TG. No issues with availability there either. Consider BR GUM-TPE-SIN/BKK etc - a much nicer way to get out of GUM than on UA and if you have already had your stopover on the outbound there's no real reason to transit Japan on the way back too.

Did you find direct UA J availability HKG-GUM? I've only ever seen Y offered. Consider HKG for your stopover instead - it might give you some more options.

Yep found UA180 HKG-GUM in J for the date I wanted. Basically wanting to fly to GUM leaving thurs night/friday morning arrive there sat. Turn around a few hours later and stop in NGO. train to Suzuka circuit, fly home monday morning!

 

[burmans]

Nope. AAdvantage rules are quite strict. There must (a) be a published airline fare on the route you want to take and (b) your itinerary must comply with various transit point restrictions (for example SWP-Europe is not permitted with a change of aircraft in the middle east, and various connections in Asia are also excluded on other itineraries)

(but on the plus side one-ways and date/route changes are permitted free of charge provided the origin and destination remain the same)

Have been reading back through comments and this doesn't quite gel with what the announcement actually says, it says that USDM will be redeemable for Oneworld filghts, NOT that USDM miles will become AAdvantage, in fact it specifically says "We'll continue to function as two separate airlines for quite some time and very few changes will happen immediately". Using USDM rules but Oneworld flights might offer up some interesting routes IMO.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Have been reading back through comments and this doesn't quite gel with what the announcement actually says, it says that USDM will be redeemable for Oneworld filghts, NOT that USDM miles will become AAdvantage, in fact it specifically says "We'll continue to function as two separate airlines for quite some time and very few changes will happen immediately". Using USDM rules but Oneworld flights might offer up some interesting routes IMO.

good point! let's hope you're right!!

 

[anat0l]

Have been reading back through comments and this doesn't quite gel with what the announcement actually says, it says that USDM will be redeemable for Oneworld filghts, NOT that USDM miles will become AAdvantage, in fact it specifically says "We'll continue to function as two separate airlines for quite some time and very few changes will happen immediately". Using USDM rules but Oneworld flights might offer up some interesting routes IMO.

That would be really interesting if that were the case. Qantas, Cathay and Malaysia seats will be snapped up left, right and centre if that were the case (subject to availability, of course).

I read that kind of text a couple of times and never thought it could mean that. Mainly because trying to rewrite the redemption rules so that either kind of award could use either one of either airline and/or either FF currency could be messy. UA and CO were certainly not that generous (but freely shifting both UA and CO redeemable and status miles back and forth was at least welcomed as part of the merger process).

Another way to read it is that USDM points may be used for oneworld flights, but it's based on redeeming an AAdvantage award with AAdvantage rules and prices (which is effectively the same as converting your points to AA then burning, but with explicit step less in the process). Or, US is maintaining a relationship with some airlines even after it leaves *A. Some of those partners are *A, some of them are oneworld......