US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

[Flashback]

it may depend on where in the states you want. if you are thinking lax the via Europe may be a bit of a squeeze given the MPM. but as always, ymmv.

Would be happy with JFK...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Would be happy with JFK...

JFK is fine tatl both ways. but also check flights to Washington, Boston etc etc. beware that not all TK flights have full flat beds, on their 777s and I think the a332 (or a333, it's one of them). the a340 is not flat but angled. you can also look for OZ icn-fra.

 

[Insaneous]

So what are everyones thoughts on my plans for next year (aug-oct sometime). I'm planning a US holiday for 5 weeks or so, but I lokos like if I have my destination as North Asia (china/Korea/etc) then First Class cost is only 110,000 (not 150,000). So would the following work?

MEL-SYD
SYD-BKK (F)
BKK-ICN (J but hoping for change to F later on) - Destination (for 1-2 days)
ICN-LAX (F) - Stopover (for 5 weeks)
LAX-SYD(J but hoping for change to F later on
SYD-MEL

Other than that I would consider obviously travelling to MEL-LAX return in business and dont worry about the extra travel via asia, but the attraction of First class is there!


thoughts?

 

[smit0847]

So what are everyones thoughts on my plans for next year (aug-oct sometime). I'm planning a US holiday for 5 weeks or so, but I lokos like if I have my destination as North Asia (china/Korea/etc) then First Class cost is only 110,000 (not 150,000). So would the following work?

MEL-SYD
SYD-BKK (F)
BKK-ICN (J but hoping for change to F later on) - Destination (for 1-2 days)
ICN-LAX (F) - Stopover (for 5 weeks)
LAX-SYD(J but hoping for change to F later on
SYD-MEL

Other than that I would consider obviously travelling to MEL-LAX return in business and dont worry about the extra travel via asia, but the attraction of First class is there!


thoughts?

Honestly?

That you should not be attempting this deal when you dont understand how this deal or the *A network works.

Just off the top of my head:

1. you will need to make your own way to SYD from MEL and back at own cost
2. There is no F on BKK-ICN
3. You cannot do a North Asia redemption with a stopover in the US particularly when your stopover time is much much longer than your destination time. It's illogical. North Asia will be classed as your stopover and you will be charged a full US redemption.
4. the only F on LAX-SYD is UA (if they still even offer it) which I would consider a waste because it's not that much better than J.
5. If you are only getting F on the SYD-BKK route Im not sure its worth the extra miles.

I've been studying this deal daily for almost a year and I am only now in a position where I understand it and can plan and book. It's not something you can learn overnight.

 

[robcuk]

Agree with Smit.

I haven't looked into it but can you not fly into LAX from MEL?

Perhaps you could then fly back to ICN from LAX and then head home
from there?

Aftwr a few longer routes in the past flying direct is preferable!

 

[smit0847]

How much choice would an agent likely give you when you go to book?

Say I ring up to book SYD-LHR J. From looking at ANA etc I know there is availability SYD-BKK-LHR and SYD-ICN-LHR on the day I want to travel (and both options are similar travel times, distances etc). I assume the agent will see both these options too. Will they give me the choice or will they just pick one and say thats its that or nothing? If I point out the other option will they let me have that instead?

Similarly, if I go to book SYD-LAX J and the availability is on both UA SYD-LAX direct and OZ SYD-ICN-LAX I assume the agent will choose UA because it's direct. If I hate UA and love OZ will they let me have that instead even though it's not direct?

Is this a case of playing agent roulette until you find one who will give you what you want?

 

[Insaneous]

Honestly?

That you should not be attempting this deal when you dont understand how this deal or the *A network works.

Come on mate, I see you have had plenty of posts and questions on this thread, so I dont know what your problem is when I'm just trying to further my own knowledge. How the how else am I supposed to find the info out? I've read through this thread, paid for KVS tool, read the flyer talk thread, search through ANA, read the Dividend miles rules so all i'm asking for is a couple of clarifications.

Thanks for your comments however. I'm guessing MEL-SYD is not covered, as it wouldn't be considered a stop over on TG since you can fly MEL-BKK via TG direct? Correct? Whereas if I flew MEL-LAX it would be via SYD which is included.


Regarding stopovers, is there a timelimit on how long the stop over is? My other option is to fly MEL-LAX-JFK-LAX-MEL in J, which going by your comments and robcuk that it's not worth extra flight time just for first class (having never experienced either, i wouldn't know).

 

[hummel]

MEL-SYD is not covered.

MEL does not offer F to BKK, only SYD.

I suggest you catch a ferry flight up the night before to be safe.

 

[smit0847]

Come on mate, I see you have had plenty of posts and questions on this thread, so I dont know what your problem is when I'm just trying to further my own knowledge. How the how else am I supposed to find the info out? I've read through this thread, paid for KVS tool, read the flyer talk thread, search through ANA, read the Dividend miles rules so all i'm asking for is a couple of clarifications.

Thanks for your comments however. I'm guessing MEL-SYD is not covered, as it wouldn't be considered a stop over on TG since you can fly MEL-BKK via TG direct? Correct? Whereas if I flew MEL-LAX it would be via SYD which is included.


Regarding stopovers, is there a timelimit on how long the stop over is? My other option is to fly MEL-LAX-JFK-LAX-MEL in J, which going by your comments and robcuk that it's not worth extra flight time just for first class (having never experienced either, i wouldn't know).

I don't wish to be rude - I've just seen countless examples of people discovering this going 'awesome, I'm going to do this, this and this' and then coming back to say 'why can't I get this and why isn't this available'. Yes it's a great deal, but there are lots of rules. If you know all the rules you can get what you want, if you dont know the rules you will get caught out, and frustrated.

I'm not saying you havent read up on it but the fact that you don't know you cant fly MEL-SYD and can't do an Asian redemption with a US stopover suggests that you need to do a lot more research before thinking about booking. Homework now will limit frustration later.

To research your proposed route more use AwardTravelr - Searching across all possibilities to make your frequent flyer miles work for you I've found it an excellent site to get an idea of what might be available (ignore SQ). Playing around with this may answer your questions better and faster than asking here.

 

[wafliron]

FYI, ExpertFlyer have just added ~20 more Star Alliance airlines to their "Awards & Upgrades" search tool, which means they now have complete Star Alliance coverage:

Dear wafliron,

First, all remaining UA Award and Upgrade classes and alerts have been restored along with numeric availability.


Second, we are happy to announce that ExpertFlyer has just added an additional 20 airlines to our Award & Upgrade search as well as our first alliance award search.


The newly added airlines are:

• Adria Airways (JP)
• ANA (NH)
• Asiana Airlines (OZ)
• Austrian (OS)
• Blue1 (KF)
• Croatia Airlines (OU)
• Egyptair (MS)
• Ethiopian Airlines (ET)
• Island Air (WP)
• LACSA (LR)
• Lufthansa (LH)
• SAS (SK)
• Singapore Airlines (SQ)
• South African Airways (SA)
• TACA (TA)
• TAM Linhas Aereas (JJ)
• TAM Paraguay (PZ)
• TAP-Air Portugal (TP)
• Thai Airways International (TG)
• US Airways (US)

With these additions ExpertFlyer now has 100% Star Alliance Award coverage. In addition, there is an additional entry at the top of the Airline list in the Award & Upgrade search called “Star Alliance”. Choosing this option will show results that can include any Star Alliance airline in the search, our first true alliance level award search.

Award searching for these airlines now also benefit from ExpertFlyer’s unique features:

• Flight Availability Alerts
• +/- 3 day searching for Departure and Return dates
• Include up to 3 fare classes in Award results when searching for a specific airline
• Mobile web Award & Upgrade searching

Please let us know if you have any questions. We hope you enjoy the new additions and thank you for your support of ExpertFlyer.


-The ExpertFlyer.com Team

So we now have another easy-to-use tool to help find *A award inventory to book via USDM (using the "search all Star Alliance" option, as per above), albeit a paid one. I think the really exciting part of this is the ability to combine a comprehensive *A award inventory searching with ExpertFlyer's alerts feature - e.g. this will make it much easier to find out if, for example, LH, release a bunch of F award seats a few weeks out from your flight so you can jump on them and change your existing booking.

 

[Alanslegal]

So what are everyones thoughts on my plans for next year (aug-oct sometime). I'm planning a US holiday for 5 weeks or so, but I lokos like if I have my destination as North Asia (china/Korea/etc) then First Class cost is only 110,000 (not 150,000). So would the following work?

The destination is always the furthest point away from your starting point. You can't choose your destination otherwise I would tell the agent that AKL is my destination when really I am flying sydney-auckland-los angeles and NEW YORK and ask to be charged 40K in First

Say I ring up to book SYD-LHR J. From looking at ANA etc I know there is availability SYD-BKK-LHR and SYD-ICN-LHR on the day I want to travel (and both options are similar travel times, distances etc). I assume the agent will see both these options too. Will they give me the choice or will they just pick one and say thats its that or nothing? If I point out the other option will they let me have that instead?

Similarly, if I go to book SYD-LAX J and the availability is on both UA SYD-LAX direct and OZ SYD-ICN-LAX I assume the agent will choose UA because it's direct. If I hate UA and love OZ will they let me have that instead even though it's not direct?

Is this a case of playing agent roulette until you find one who will give you what you want?

For example, the agent would punch in Origin: SYD, Destination: LON and whatever results will come up, I would bet most likely nothing is available And that's when you jump in and offer your flight breakdown and name the flights you would like which are available. If you do not like the options given, then politely tell them you would like to "think about it" and HUACA.

 

[Insaneous]

I don't wish to be rude - I've just seen countless examples of people discovering this going 'awesome, I'm going to do this, this and this' and then coming back to say 'why can't I get this and why isn't this available'. Yes it's a great deal, but there are lots of rules. If you know all the rules you can get what you want, if you dont know the rules you will get caught out, and frustrated.

I'm not saying you havent read up on it but the fact that you don't know you cant fly MEL-SYD and can't do an Asian redemption with a US stopover suggests that you need to do a lot more research before thinking about booking. Homework now will limit frustration later.

To research your proposed route more use AwardTravelr - Searching across all possibilities to make your frequent flyer miles work for you I've found it an excellent site to get an idea of what might be available (ignore SQ). Playing around with this may answer your questions better and faster than asking here.

Thanks, ill check the link out... seen it before but with all the different links and tools I have seen I haven't looked at this one closely.

Clearly I know a stop over in America to north Asia destination is illogical, but is it actually specified in the rules? Just says some other examples, I don't recall any specifically stating my example.

Also, is there anything in the rules specifically stating that you can't do a stopover which is longer between flights than the destination arrive/depart flight?

 

[Insaneous]

The destination is always the furthest point away from your starting point. You can't choose your destination otherwise I would tell the agent that AKL is my destination when really I am flying sydney-auckland-los angeles and NEW YORK and ask to be charged 40K in First

Yea but that would obviously exceed the MPM rule.

MEL to ICN is 5300miles, MEL to LAX is 7500 miles according to google, so yeah you are probably right, but your example is not fair comparision.

 

[anat0l]

Clearly I know a stop over in America to north Asia destination is illogical, but is it actually specified in the rules? Just says some other examples, I don't recall any specifically stating my example.

Well, there are no restrictions in stone as such, unlike some other ones made clear. Try if you will; we just reckon that overall you'd probably be unsuccessful in convincing any agent (and if you somehow manage to convince on of them, then.....)

A bit like Alanslegal's facetious example - not specifically prohibited, but close to impossible to get ticketed that way.

Also, is there anything in the rules specifically stating that you can't do a stopover which is longer between flights than the destination arrive/depart flight?

A stopover is defined as a period between the arrival of one flight and the departure of another greater than 24 hours. Anything else is called a transit. (There are some exceptions to this for North American stops, I think, but notwithstanding those are the rules).

Your "destination", i.e. the 'farthest' point or 'turnaround' point of your itinerary, can be as long or as short as you like (it is not counted in the number of stopovers for the purposes of the rules).

 

[Insaneous]

ok just to be clear i'm now just having a good discussion on particular aspects, i'm not trying to be annoying newbie or anything, just asking tough questions.

Well, there are no restrictions in stone as such, unlike some other ones made clear. Try if you will; we just reckon that overall you'd probably be unsuccessful in convincing any agent (and if you somehow manage to convince on of them, then.....)

A bit like Alanslegal's facetious example - not specifically prohibited, but close to impossible to get ticketed that way.

But even then, in Alanslegal's examples, they are talking about going from South Pacific to South Pacific via USA.... why would that be allowed in the first place?My example isn't like that. My example is South Pacific to North Asia with a stop over in USA. Example flight could be MEL-LAX-ICN-LAX-MEL. Would it be allowed? I dont think there are any MEL-ICN direct? (with *Alliance partner obviously, i'm sure i've checked multiple times, but dont have KVS on me now)

A stopover is defined as a period between the arrival of one flight and the departure of another greater than 24 hours. Anything else is called a transit. (There are some exceptions to this for North American stops, I think, but notwithstanding those are the rules).

Your "destination", i.e. the 'farthest' point or 'turnaround' point of your itinerary, can be as long or as short as you like (it is not counted in the number of stopovers for the purposes of the rules).

Sorry I probably didnt make clear, I meant to ask, can a stop over duration (i.e. time between the arrival and depature flight) be any length of time? Can a stop over be 5 weeks?

Also, does a Destination duration (time between arrival and depature flight) be shorter than a stop over duration? i.e. 2-3 days?

 

[spudwa]

You will be served a full meal on the BKK-ZRH flight departing after midnight - including caviar. I find the food better on the plane than on the gruond. I would relax and enjoy the spa and ground services, then get on the plane and pick what you like from the menu. The F servings aren't particularly large in any event (not like USA carriers).

When we flew F BKK->LHR we had dinner together at my wifes seat. I sat on the ottoman and the table is big enough. It was a delightful experience

» Birthday onboard Royal First Class of Thai Airways | Sam Chui Aviation Photography

 

[casanovawa]

In the OW award i booked and the USDM award i booked, i just find if you know what your flights are that you want to take by doing some research first (u can go blind looking at ANA or other sites and putting in various scenarios), maybe with one or two back ups in case there is some reason you can't get your preferred flight/route and read it out to the agent and do the work for them, you are much more likely to get what you want...

As long as you're not also asking for something totally outrageous (maybe just semi-outrageous )... And it helps to know some of the rules and some of the knockback/loopholes that people have tried on here or FT... I don't think there is any rule about how long your destination vs stopover breaks can be although probably some limit like it all has to be over in 12 months or so...

MEL to LAX you could possibly go via NZ as well although i hear NZ is very hard to get in J to the US... For long flights i think I will, as much as possible, stear clear of the US airlines but that is just a personal inclination UA Y is meant to be pretty cough with not even individual inflight entertainment, but their J maybe ok.... So in your situation i would probably look at NZ or Thai or else yes a short positioning flight up to SYD if that will open up more routes via Korea or Japan.... F these days just seems to be very hard to find...

 

[Insaneous]

MEL to LAX you could possibly go via NZ as well although i hear NZ is very hard to get in J to the US... For long flights i think I will, as much as possible, stear clear of the US airlines but that is just a personal inclination UA Y is meant to be pretty cough with not even individual inflight entertainment, but their J maybe ok.... So in your situation i would probably look at NZ or Thai or else yes a short positioning flight up to SYD if that will open up more routes via Korea or Japan.... F these days just seems to be very hard to find...

Yea very ahrd to find anything for MEL to LAX via NZ. I think i have found one return flight, but then nothing from NZ-MEL for that date.

Plenty of F SYD-BKK and ICN-LAX!

But really is it worth extra 9 hours of flying (plus all the layover time) to fly in F than J?

 

[anat0l]

ok just to be clear i'm now just having a good discussion on particular aspects, i'm not trying to be annoying newbie or anything, just asking tough questions.

No biggie here.

My example is South Pacific to North Asia with a stop over in USA. Example flight could be MEL-LAX-ICN-LAX-MEL. Would it be allowed? I dont think there are any MEL-ICN direct? (with *Alliance partner obviously, i'm sure i've checked multiple times, but dont have KVS on me now)

There is no MEL-ICN non-stop, but I don't think you'll find MEL-LAX-ICN as a routing in the *A search tool (MEL-SIN-ICN yes, MEL-BKK-ICN yes...). Not sure of the exact direct routings available without checking KVS etc..

Sorry I probably didnt make clear, I meant to ask, can a stop over duration (i.e. time between the arrival and depature flight) be any length of time? Can a stop over be 5 weeks?

Also, does a Destination duration (time between arrival and depature flight) be shorter than a stop over duration? i.e. 2-3 days?

I'm sure your stopover can be any duration you like, as can your destination duration, provided that the entire ticket falls under the standard limit of 12 months.

I say this without any proof, but I'm sure it should be OK (for those interested in interweaving tickets / parking itineraries).

 

[anat0l]

When we flew F BKK->LHR we had dinner together at my wifes seat. I sat on the ottoman and the table is big enough. It was a delightful experience

» Birthday onboard Royal First Class of Thai Airways | Sam Chui Aviation Photography

Whoa - you're the famous Sam Chui?!

*bows down - "I am not worthy"*