VA half yearly results to 31 December 2018

[Must...Fly!]

Virgin Australia extends Alliance wet-lease deal

VA to keep paying someone else to fly aircraft for them...

 

[Bagpuss]

Virgin Australia extends Alliance wet-lease deal

VA to keep paying someone else to fly aircraft for them...

VA's 737's are too big for the market and the ATR's are probably not the right fit.

It makes sense considering Qantas' potential planned take over.

Qantas use/have used Alliance as well. There's nothing unusual about the set up and it obviously is working.

 

[Pleb Status]

Virgin Australia extends Alliance wet-lease deal

VA to keep paying someone else to fly aircraft for them...

This is no different to what is done in the US with most regional flights. Most DL regional flights are not flown by DL.

Even QF outsources most QF 717 flights to Cobham...

 

[dajop]

This is no different to what is done in the US with most regional flights. Most DL regional flights are not flown by DL.

Indeed. Skywest operate for AA, AS, DL & UA. Compass Airlines operate for AA & DL. Republic operates for AA, DL & UA. there are many more.

 

[Must...Fly!]

This is no different to what is done in the US with most regional flights. Most DL regional flights are not flown by DL.

Even QF outsources most QF 717 flights to Cobham...

And it's not the same because the aircraft are mostly in DL livery with DL uniformed crew and DL branding within the aircraft.

 

[Bagpuss]

And it's not the same because the aircraft are mostly in DL livery with DL uniformed crew and DL branding within the aircraft.

Its a little thing called cost savings. It's all Virgin Australia announcements on board.
I'd say for most ppl the care factor is pretty much zero as long as they get to the destination and the FF Points and SC.

 

[Pleb Status]

And it's not the same because the aircraft are mostly in DL livery with DL uniformed crew and DL branding within the aircraft.

Putting aside your newly introduced qualifications, DL are still paying someone else to fly aircraft for them.... And AA.... And UA.... And AS.... And QF.... (which was your initial criticism)

 

[Must...Fly!]

But DL are still paying someone else to fly aircraft for them.... And AA.... And UA.... And AS.... (which was your initial criticism)

My criticism isn't operating a subsidiary or paying a subbie as is done by many many airlines....but in almost every case listed the average punter wouldn't have a clue they aren't on mainline.

Usually the branding is consistent, the product is consistent and the experience basically seamless.

Assuming QQ are profitable VA are actually partially paying their main competitor (QF) to fly routes for them while competing on price in some markets.

 

[grubbidok]

Its a little thing called cost savings. It's all Virgin Australia announcements on board.
I'd say for most ppl the care factor is pretty much zero as long as they get to the destination and the FF Points and SC.

They might float it as a seamless experience but it's not. And those who fly do care.

As someone who flies on these routes regularly the move to Alliance branded craft has been a definite downgrade. Also, almost overnight since the shift happened it is virtually impossible to redeem flights with one Alliance leg and on VA leg on many of their routes. Booking them even with cash is a nightmare.

These may be unintended consequences, but are pretty reasonably forseeable consequences of not fully integrated the partner into the VA brand. This has nothing to do with Va paying someone to do it - Alliance was operating many routes under the VA brand and when it was done this way it was seamless. This has occurred since Alliance has insisted on keeping its own brand but selling VA tickets.

Sure, airlines like DL and QF pay others to fly for them as well, but at least they do it under the same brand and they incorporate it into their systems. That isn't happening here.

The Alliance deal is a cough deal for VA pax in its current form. The fact that VA can't even negotiate them to fly under VA branding is either a terrible business decision or a sign of an organisation that can't do business negotiation.

 

[Bagpuss]

Booking them even with cash is a nightmare.

You book via the normal Virgin Australia methods.

 

[Bagpuss]

And those who fly do care.

Per my experience I thought it was a better experience, especially with food.

 

[Bagpuss]

it is virtually impossible to redeem flights with one Alliance leg and on VA leg on many of their routes.

I just did a test BNE to PQQ. Can book on points with the Alliance flight in both directions and mix match.
(OUT 25th Feb and RET 28th Feb)

Reward availability is always subject to availability etc. I'd accept there maybe less availability on the Alliance aircraft... If anything because it's less seating.

 

[grubbidok]

Per my experience I thought it was a better experience, especially with food.

The booking part is the problem. For whatever reason the systems don't work together and properly and often routes that include one Alliance leg and one VA leg are often completely absent (e.g. only two flights seem to be "linked", meaning that if the BNE-SYD is full you're out of luck on the next leg, whereas two VA flights seem to be able to allow for a longer layover in BNE if necessary). Even worse for point redemptions (note: it's not limited availability, available flight options aren't even shown on many dates, or the dreaded "no flights available on these dates" rather than a "sold").

Sure, it's not the inflight experience, and there are workarounds, but it is a sign of an airline that not complete and coherent across all its routes.

Granted, VA IT has a multitude of problems, but this is one I've noticed more and more since the Alliance takeover (which was Alliance flying in place of VA, rather than Alliance operating VA flights). This is just what I've noticed. I'm clearly not a fan of the way they've done it, but I guess YMMV.

 

[Bagpuss]

Mbut in almost every case listed the average punter wouldn't have a clue they aren't on mainline.

When booking such a flight it says:
Operator: Alliance Airlines

What's mainline?

 

[HS-TQE]

For instance, VA only flies five days a week from MEL, five (not all the same) from SYD and four days a week from BNE to LAX, so, given its competitors where they offer this route fly at least daily, VA analysts may decide to offer a MEL - SYD - LAX - MEL return Y fare at the same price as SYD - LAX return. In that case, putting one on a domestic flight from MEL to SYD is "costing" the airline, but it does it because it works out it can't otherwise sell all the seats on its B773ER ex (or to) Sydney, and so given it perceives it's making an overall profit, it's prepared to 'common rate' the fare from MEL.

VA doesn't have the available aircraft, but flying less than daily on major routes like to LAX is suboptimal and puts it an immediate competitive disadvantage. I've used it one way to LAX but returned on another airline as the VA schedule did not operate on the night I was wanting to depart from the USA.

VA's SYD-LAX is actually daily, MEL-LAX is 5x weekly and BNE is 6x weekly.

It's been reported on another site that VH-VPE (a 77W) is down for maintenance and that VA has not sourced (or hasn't been able to) a replacement for the offline aircraft, hence the reduced frequencies from all 3 major AU East Coast cities whilst a a/c is offline.

It was originally SYD-LAX and BNE-LAX at daily, along with SYD-AUH on behalf of EY. Since EY's financial problems arose, SYD-AUH was dropped entirely, and BNE-LAX reduced to 6x weekly to restart MEL-LAX.

 

[Bagpuss]

It's been reported on another site that VH-VPE (a 77W) is down for maintenance and that VA has not sourced (or hasn't been able to) a replacement for the offline aircraft, hence the reduced frequencies from all 3 major AU East Coast cities whilst a a/c is offline.

It's definitely been flown to Singapore, though didn't go to Seletar where maintenance is normally done ...
VH-VPE - Boeing 777-3ZG(ER) - Virgin Australia - Flightradar24

 

[Bagpuss]

The booking part is the problem. For whatever reason the systems don't work together and properly and often routes that include one Alliance leg and one VA leg are often completely absent (e.g. only two flights seem to be "linked", meaning that if the BNE-SYD is full you're out of luck on the next leg, whereas two VA flights seem to be able to allow for a longer layover in BNE if necessary). Even worse for point redemptions (note: it's not limited availability, available flight options aren't even shown on many dates, or the dreaded "no flights available on these dates" rather than a "sold").

There is no linkage between Alliance and Virgin for the bookings. The bookings are entirely handled by Virgin on it's booking platform.
It could be do to an IT issue or the way VA are allowing flight segments. There's comments in another thread that VA have changed routing options.

 

[Must...Fly!]

It's definitely been flown to Singapore, though didn't go to Seletar where maintenance is normally done ...
VH-VPE - Boeing 777-3ZG(ER) - Virgin Australia - Flightradar24

Pretty sure 777 maintenance is done by SQ engineering at Changi.

 

[Bagpuss]

Pretty sure 777 maintenance is done by SQ engineering at Changi.

Think you are right. I just get used to seeing everything go to Seletar.

I still get a tad surprised when this happens they don't have the A330 go via a stop-over such as Fiji. I would have thought that would have been in range. Then again, it may be a sign that they are happy to shift people to other flights. IE via MEL instead of SYD etc.

 

[clipped_wings]

OT slightly, but I wonder how long it will be before we return to those rather unpalatable fares that were the norm nearly 2 decades ago. Qantas ruled the southern sky and SYD-LAX return airfares averaged $2500 per person on a good day.

Then V-Australia entered the field and the game changed.

I can't help but think that low fare wars are all very nice for the passenger, but relative to our population - truly unsustainable over a long term.