VA no longer issuing credits to travelbank (or anywhere else)

[oz_mark]

I can't believe they went into voluntary administration after almost 2 months of running hardly any flights with their full staff in tact from pre covid19 when they were operating at full capacity on their entire network.

Well, aside from the 1,000 or so redundancies in New Zealand and Melbourne.

I mean the situation was dire enough to refuse refunds to customers who were legally entitled to them and freeze velocity points but not dire enough to lay off any of the excess staff. In the meantime their entitlements continue to accrue only ballooning the secured debt to the staff and making it all the less likely that other unsecured creditors will see a cent.

I don't think they have worked out who is excess - that will be up to the new owner. Why cop the expense of redundancies when JobKeeper will keep them with some pay while they are stood down. I imagine making redunduncy payments would be more than any entitlement accrual.

 

[CaptJCool]

Agree with you 100 per cent. Not defending the administrators, but keeping the staff 'on the books' allows those who qualify to receive (through the employer, now the administrators) the higher JobKeeper allowance of A$1500/fortnight. There may otherwise have been some staff (especially on the flight deck) who would not have qualified for JobSeeker, the rebadged and increased Newstart, due to failing the assets test.

VA ought have stood down employees in line with QF.... AN EXTRA WEEK OF STAFF PAYS FOR 9,000 is a lot of cash...

Liquid Assets waiting Test has been waived so any joe pilot can apply for JobSeeker...

I don't think they have worked out who is excess - that will be up to the new owner. Why cop the expense of redundancies when JobKeeper will keep them with some pay while they are stood down. I imagine making redunduncy payments would be more than any entitlement accrual.

Ah FEG Operates but directors can have recovery initiated against them... the new owners will likely take on the outstanding leave and redundancy balances as part of the DOCA (Deed of Company Arrangement)

All easily solved if RB put cash on the table from the Caribbean .....

The actual reason for my posting
Virgin's new plan for people owed refunds 340,000 CC Charge-backs Ouch!

 

[Rob.au]

Virgin's new plan for people owed refunds 340,000 CC Charge-backs Ouch!

Shows it can be done despite some doubters. Just remember you do have to request the refund from the airline first. If they refuse, then you can initiate the chargeback process with your bank.

 

[jakeseven7]

Shows it can be done despite some doubters. Just remember you do have to request the refund from the airline first. If they refuse, then you can initiate the chargeback process with your bank.

There is a lot of talk on Facebook of people securing charge backs from Virgin as they’ve given up due to them collapsing into voluntary administration and decided that it’s worth trying for a chargeback. I guess it’s spreading that way.

 

[Rob.au]

I think you underestimate how many people already know this, or indeed how many people directly remember that chargebacks saved a lot of ticketholders in the Ansett collapse. It's not a secret.

 

[SeaWolf]

I'm a bit surprised by how many people are rushing to the charge back option rather than just waiting to see how this plays out. I'm figuring that once domestic travel resumes I'll be using those credits and if the new owner decides not to honour them or if VA goes into liquidation, then I can just initiate the charge back then instead.
My understanding is that, for AmEx at least, there's no time limit on when you can do a charge back. See below.

I can perhaps understand if someone has lost their job and gone into financial stress and requires the cash back, but if you aren't in that situation I don't see the harm in waiting the (probably) 4-6 weeks for the picture to become clearer and deciding how to proceed then.

 

[Melburnian1]

..My understanding is that, for AmEx at least, there's no time limit on when you can do a charge back.

I can perhaps understand if someone has lost their job and gone into financial stress and requires the cash back, but if you aren't in that situation I don't see the harm in waiting the (probably) 4-6 weeks for the picture to become clearer and deciding how to proceed then.

My understanding is Visa has time limits for chargebacks.

 

[travel_bug]

My understanding is Visa has time limits for chargebacks.

Yup, generally 120 days from data of transaction, but it extends for purchases of a service with a set date to another 120 days from date of the customer being told that their service will not be provided (max 540 days from processing date though).

AI-Powered Fraud Decisioning | Sift

Our AI-powered fraud decisioning platform empowers businesses to expand fearlessly and stop fraud without compromising trust.

chargeback.com

 

[SeaWolf]

Yup, generally 120 days from data of transaction, but it extends for purchases of a service with a set date to another 120 days from date of the customer being told that their service will not be provided (max 540 days from processing date though).

Good to know. I've got one flight that was booked on a Visa so I'll keep an eye on that to make sure I don't go past the deadline without having some sort of result one way or another.

 

[CaptJCool]

Virgin Australia’s administrators stopped giving refunds and flight credits for cancelled trips when VA

They are, partners at accounting firm Deloitte, and did this done because otherwise they faced being personally liable for the money.

Fed court approved flight credits but didn’t give them freedom to avoid their liabilities during the VA

 

[p--and--t]

This was a pretty telling statement from the report...

The travel credits will be valid for the administration period, and customers who have not claimed or used the credits during the process are "unlikely to receive a 100 per cent refund on any restructuring or upon liquidation".

Pretty much a delaying tactic to preserve cash.

 

[woodborer]

This was a pretty telling statement from the report...

The travel credits will be valid for the administration period, and customers who have not claimed or used the credits during the process are "unlikely to receive a 100 per cent refund on any restructuring or upon liquidation".

Pretty much a delaying tactic to preserve cash.

I'd say it was more of avoid personal liability tactic.

 

[SeaWolf]

Looks like there actually is a similar restriction of 120 days after you expected to receive the goods or service for AmEx as well.

Has anyone queried a flight charge when airline has cancelled flight?

just a question here for those with flight booked using Amex plat and flight( virgin) cancelled. surely you can do a charge back if under 2 mths since charge.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[p--and--t]

Virgin Australia Administrator: Customers Likely Won’t Ever See Their Cash For Cancelled Flights Again

Virgin Australia Administration moves into next phase: No cash refunds and Government buyout?

loyaltylobby.com

 

[travel_bug]

Virgin Australia Administrator: Customers Likely Won’t Ever See Their Cash For Cancelled Flights Again

Virgin Australia Administration moves into next phase: No cash refunds and Government buyout?

loyaltylobby.com

On the refunds front, Mr Strawbridge said while some customers would normally be eligible for cash refunds, Deloitte has proposed a policy where all customers who booked flights before Virgin entered administration and are yet to receive a refund or credit will be given a “conditional travel credit” of the same value.

Whilst this is all around awful (but not unexpected), I wonder how many people could be caught out with nothing as they booked a flight post voluntary administration that has been cancelled.

Time has gotten foggy in the last few months but I'm assuming post voluntary administration they've only been operating the underwritten minimum domestic network, so I also wonder if they've cancelled any of those flights.

It really does lend thought though to booking any flight in the future with existing travel credits if you've got any; as though not guaranteed, there is at least some hope any new owner will acknowledge existing ticketed bookings (particularly for routes that aren't likely to be on the chopping block).

 

[travel_bug]

Virgin Australia Administrator: Customers Likely Won’t Ever See Their Cash For Cancelled Flights Again

Virgin Australia Administration moves into next phase: No cash refunds and Government buyout?

loyaltylobby.com

I know I'm likely repeating myself from earlier on in this thread, but this is the part that really bothers me:

Meanwhile Virgin Australia’s COVID-19 related website outlining change/cancellation details ​

can be found here​

yet it still doesn’t line out that cash refunds are a thing of the past. Disingenuous at best, fraud at worst.​

VA very easily could have made this position known a while ago and tidied up its wording instead of stringing customers along, particularly those entitled to full cash refunds under the strictest reading of the fare rules.

 

[p--and--t]

Whilst this is all around awful (but not unexpected), I wonder how many people could be caught out with nothing as they booked a flight post voluntary administration that has been cancelled.

Time has gotten foggy in the last few months but I'm assuming post voluntary administration they've only been operating the underwritten minimum domestic network, so I also wonder if they've cancelled any of those flights.

It really does lend thought though to booking any flight in the future with existing travel credits if you've got any; as though not guaranteed, there is at least some hope any new owner will acknowledge existing ticketed bookings (particularly for routes that aren't likely to be on the chopping block).

Nothing is guaranteed until/if the airline is flying again and the new administration sets it's new rules. Depending on its new target market, they may not care in the slightest about previous VA loyalty and loyalty schemes.

Seems to me I read and hear from various quarters "I would never fly ..." over and over, but a few weeks later "that was too cheap not to book" or "I had to be there by..."

 

[travel_bug]

Nothing is guaranteed until/if the airline is flying again and the new administration sets it's new rules. Depending on its new target market, they may not care in the slightest about previous VA loyalty and loyalty schemes.

Seems to me I read and hear from various quarters "I would never fly ..." over and over, but a few weeks later "that was too cheap not to book" or "I had to be there by..."

Oh I agree nothing is guaranteed, but as someone with enough in a travel bank for a return flight for my SO and I, I may as well chuck it in to another booking to test my luck rather than keep it there and know it'll be devalued.

The casinos may be closed, so it's like a personal roulette wheel.

 

[Melburnian1]

..Time has gotten foggy in the last few months but I'm assuming post voluntary administration they've only been operating the underwritten minimum domestic network, so I also wonder if they've cancelled any of those flights...

I've not monitored every airport, and of those I've looked at (principally SYD and MEL), VA seems to be mostly operating its government-guaranteed/subsidised flights but the airport websites may only show a cancellation when it relates to a flight that was listed as operating if we went back in time to within a week of departure date. So if a flight was in the timetable 10 days ago (and VA had accepted bookings), but it was cancelled say eight days ago, it probably wouldn't be viewable on the relevant airports' flight departures/arrival pages.

Mind you, the domestic 'networks' being operated by QFd and VAd (latter under administration) are not just limited in routes but have extremely infrequent flights. QFd can on some days be down to one MEL - SYD, JQd and VAd the same.

Expert Flyer is not a reliable indicator of bookings (tends to underestimate) but with 'social distancing' in place, lots of seats are blocked and down the back in economy of some flights I've quickly looked at, a few hours before departure there appear to be many empty seats, correlating with the very small number of reports AFFers have made.

 

[tomlee1986]

This was a pretty telling statement from the report...

The travel credits will be valid for the administration period, and customers who have not claimed or used the credits during the process are "unlikely to receive a 100 per cent refund on any restructuring or upon liquidation".

Pretty much a delaying tactic to preserve cash.

The bigger question many people would be asking is how long would this administration period will last... if the brand VA survives this administration period will be in everyone's minds... If possible for credit card charge back.. i would advise so