Veda Credit Scores and American Express Applications (esp Plat Charge)

[quokka77]

theblank is livening things up around here, with his/her frank contributions to this thread and the ATO thread. That's fun. As one of Veda's "suckers" (aka subscribers), I'm pretty comfortable for shelling out less than three figures annually for monthly score updates and notification of credit pings.

I am a card churner, and also have financial responsibilities extending to a family, so I enjoy knowing I haven't killed my credit-worthiness on a month-to-month basis, and the score helps me decide how aggressively to pursue new cards.

theblank, if you're willing to put some more data to go with your assertions and opinions about Veda scores, I'm sure we'd all be grateful and interested.

 

[Benno]

There is simply not enough data in the systems to evaluate anything and wont be until every single credit provider is uploading the account data every month, which includes balances and payment history. At the moment the only thing your score is based on is number of enquiries. That proves so very little.

I've come to that conclusion too. The total lack of accurate/comprehensive information that Veda have about me and my partner makes me wonder why any business pays for it. It's not like we're the type of people who such credit reporting agencies might have a hard time keeping track of - no name/address changes for years, plenty of credit interactions with financial services providers.

 

[burmans]

I've come to that conclusion too. The total lack of accurate/comprehensive information that Veda have about me and my partner makes me wonder why any business pays for it. It's not like we're the type of people who such credit reporting agencies might have a hard time keeping track of - no name/address changes for years, plenty of credit interactions with financial services providers.

theblank has hit the nail on the head with this one, under negative reporting the two main things that get reported to the bureaus are applications and defaults. They are not obliged to report anything at all though there are some moves to change this. And if there is no reason to spend the large amounts of money required to submit this info to the bureau then its fair to say the credit providers wont spend that money.

The reason most do is for the default info. A number of utilities uses default reporting as a lever for their difficult customers (i.e. you don't pay we will default you and then you'll never be able to get another loan). Not all defaults get reported but a fair percentage do, and defaults are very predictive of future credit stress, to the extent that a number of lenders just wont touch people with defaults on file (at least in the last couple of years).

But let me just say, banks spend a lot of money on their decision systems, they know what the factors are that are predictive of future credit issues, their analytics in this area are as good as any (even if the information is imperfect). So they would have done their business cases on using bureaus and they would have made the assessment as to whether to use the bureaus based on these numbers. They would have made the decision in some cases not to use the bureaus, which is exactly why some applications do not appear on your credit history. But most do get a credit pull, so they clearly have done the numbers and seen some value. They have much better data on this than you and I do!

 

[theblank]

but in general they do a pull of your credit history so they don't think those factors are valueless.

There is no record of credit history held by Veda. Credit history and status is coming and until credit providers are forced by legislation to upload the data it wont happen.

And to make the claim that all they base the scores is the number of credit enquiries is just ingenuous.

Didnt say that - dont know what it is that you think I said either, but thanks for the compliment anyway.

 

[burmans]

Didnt say that - dont know what it is that you think I said either, but thanks for the compliment anyway.

Post #99 in this thread, I have directly quoted what you said, it's not a matter of what I "thought" you said. http://www.australianfrequentflyer....es-american-express-71195-10.html#post1437395

You do know that posts on the internet form a permanent history I hope.

Suggesting you didn't say it when people can go back and check!

 

[burmans]

There is no record of credit history held by Veda.

Hm there a challenge. Do I believe a self rated expert as to what's credit history and that historical information about credit applications and defaults is not credit history or do I seek more informed sources.

Let's start with the association that represents credit providers (ARCA) and see what they say on their creditsmart site Credit Smart

Your credit history creates a picture of your credit enquiries and relationships as well as reported payment defaults.

Oh gee, maybe credit enquirees and defaults are part of (the current) credit history system. But let's not just believe only them because clearly we need more evidence. What do the relevant regulatory bodies say, e.g
https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/tools-and-resources/publications/factsheet-your-credit-report

• Your credit history. Listings of any credit or loans you have applied for, defaults (overdue payments of 60 days or more where collection activity has started) and any other credit infringements (infringements can be listed for up to five years after they occurred, or seven years for serious infringements).

Yes, I get this information is not comprehensive credit history yet, but that doesn't mean it's not credit history.

 

[blueythecat]

For anyone interested I thought I give a quick update on how much credit score has bounced back (or not) since my Platinum Edge in Jan.

Prior to application in Jan:
Veda Credit Score: 636
Experian Credit Score: 557
Credit Card applications in last 6 mths: 2
Credit Card applications in last 12 mths: 3
Credit Card applications in last 5 yrs: 10
Other credit applications 6 mths: 0
Other credit applications 12 mths: 0
Other credit applications 5 yrs: 0

Post AMEX Application - Feb 2016:
Veda Credit Score: 612 (down 24)
Experian Credit Score: 553 (down 4)
Credit Card applications in last 6 mths: 2
Credit Card applications in last 12 mths: 4
Credit Card applications in last 5 yrs: 11
Other credit applications 6 mths: 0
Other credit applications 12 mths: 0
Other credit applications 5 yrs: 0

Credit Scores Now (4 months on) - no further applications and one old one has "dropped" off:
Veda Credit Score: 647 (up 35)
Experian Credit Score: 553 (no change)
Credit Card applications in last 6 mths: 2
Credit Card applications in last 12 mths: 3
Credit Card applications in last 5 yrs: 10
Other credit applications 6 mths: 0
Other credit applications 12 mths: 0
Other credit applications 5 yrs: 0

Well as you can see no great recovery in my score yet - but this isn't something I'm worried about at all - especially since getting credit cards has never been a problem for me.

Hope this helps someone who is considering a credit card application and good luck to anyone applying. As has been said many times in this thread though - it is important to remember that your credit score is only one aspect of what banks and other institutions use in assessing your credit worthiness (some may not even use it at all).

 

[bam71]

Question re Applying for a supplementary card: Cut a long story short, we are sending my brother and sister in law on a holiday to HNL. They're blue collar battlers, never enough $$, always struggling and always short of cash ( He's a sign writer - and not the best business man which he acknowledges - always scrabbling around for work). He's a aircraft geek ( like most of us), but has never been overseas ... they're in they're early 50's. Applied for a supplementary Platinum card for them to use whilst on holidays ( and we're happy for them to use it when they're short of cash and need groceries etc - as long as they ask nicely first). It was declined. I can only assume it was due to their bankruptcy around 15 years ago. Bugs me though that its US taking on the risk/debt as its our account. Anyone had anything similar happen? Mods please feel free to move this post - sorry, couldn't really find the proper place for it.

Thoughts appreciated - no flaming please though on the morality of bankruptcy, at the time he had a major accident and was in hospital for months with no $$ coming in..( and of course not insured..)

 

[cambriamarsh]

Could you add them as a Supplementary cardholder to your own one?

 

[bam71]

No - it doesn't seem to work like that -which surprised me..... it seems they get a different card number and the same benefits etc ( access to AMEX SYD lounge etc), its just that we're responsible for the debt. That's what I'm trying to get my head around...

 

[exceladdict]

No - it doesn't seem to work like that -which surprised me..... it seems they get a different card number and the same benefits etc ( access to AMEX SYD lounge etc), its just that we're responsible for the debt. That's what I'm trying to get my head around...

Have you spoken to amex? That's my understanding of how it works. Supplementary cards shouldn't need credit checks etc for the supplementary card holder. Only the principal account holder would?

 

[bam71]

¥es, that will be my next port of call, calling them. One would think it is all on the onus of the principal account holder.......'

 

[blueythecat]

I'm planning to take advantage of the "July / August AMEX Points Bonanza" and add another AMEX card to the stable. Seeing as I can't get the 120k on offer for the Plat Charge (as I already have it), I thought I might shoot for the VA Plat AMEX instead.

Before I apply I though, I thought I'd post a credit score update and I'll post another one once the new scores are in.

Credit Scores:
Veda Credit Score: 663 (up 16 since May)
Experian Credit Score: 596 (up 44 since May)
Credit Card applications in last 6 mths: 1
Credit Card applications in last 12 mths: 2
Credit Card applications in last 5 yrs: 9
Other credit applications 6 mths: 0
Other credit applications 12 mths: 0
Other credit applications 5 yrs: 0

My scores aren't looking super, but they are a bit since my last AMEX application, so hopefully it all goes off smoothly.

 

[MikeeB]

So I applied for a Plat Charge Card on 30/06 and here are the numbers before the application and checked again today after being approved;

Veda Score: 600
Experian Score: 749
Credit applications last six months: 0
Credit applications last twelve months: 1
Credit applications last five years: 26 (Churned pretty hard for a few years there to my own detriment :shock

And after approval;
Veda Score: 609 (What tha??)
Experian Score: 605 (down 144!)

These credit reporting agencies....will we ever understand their logic? LoL

 

[albyd]

Similar thing happened to me after I applied for the Platinum Charge card - mine fell >200 points. Have recovered <50 points over 8 months since. I made 2 other applications last year in the prior 12 months so hardly a churner. I have noticed all of my Amex credit limits now being reported to Veda including payment history - one of my limits is quite high on a legacy Amex card I've had for ages - might have had something to do with score drop.

 

[Pleb Status]

A question for the group. How long after a CC approval does it take for your Veda Score to be 'updated'? Does it occur instantly or say once a month?

 

[albyd]

Mine updates at the end of each month.

 

[andye]

I get to see updates at beginning of each month but I suspect it gets updated as soon as a new credit enquiry is made. Otherwise you could make a whole slew of credit applications in one month relying on a previously good score. I seem to remember a mortgage broker saying formal applications to multiple providers get harder each time

 

[Pleb Status]

I get to see updates at beginning of each month but I suspect it gets updated as soon as a new credit enquiry is made. Otherwise you could make a whole slew of credit applications in one month relying on a previously good score. I seem to remember a mortgage broker saying formal applications to multiple providers get harder each time

This was my thought as well (instant reduction). I just looked at my Veda Score after my very recent Platinum Charge and Platinum Reserve applications, and if already corrected for these applications, it is now at a level similar to others (or slightly higher) after their applications for the same cards.

 

[albyd]

I wonder what it is about the platinum charge card that's so negative to our credit scores. After all, it's a charge card, must be paid off each month and isn't unlimited credit. So much so in my experience my mortgage broker has said in the past banks generally ignore charge cards when calculating your servicing. For home loans for instance.