Velocity changes: Changes to status credits

[connieguy]

I'm really disappointed in this change. Not so much what it's changed to - I'm in two minds about that - but the fact that this is the third incarnation of a SC policy that is only days old.

I agree, it shows DJ really need to get their s*** together. First the changes were announced. Then, after AFF highlighted some queries there was (presumably) internal discussion and the website was changed for the purposes of clarity.

Now, the website has been changed again (very quietly, which is another issue) after presumably more internal discussion and a change of policy.

It's making me wonder what we can believe

Either that, or far too many people have authority to change the website.

I think DJ have over reacted to a small number of Status Runners and have shown they do not fully think through their decisions nor really understand how FFers think. As for DJ Status Runners over running the DJ Lounges, that would take a lot more people being DJ Status Runners than engage in this forum. So, in my opinion, not a real possibility.

So DJ, I suggest you have over reacted to a very small portion of your customers and kicked a few but very vocal FFers in the balls. Gotta say when I found out the 2 4 1 J seats did not earn SC or miles, I smelled a rat that hides not so desirable effects in the fine print.

Not a good day for DJ's image with FFers, who have every right to game the SC and miles system for their advantage. Seems DJ have now apparently declared war against those who are smart enough to see ways to arrange their flights to max their miles and SC earnings.

And I was dumb enough to think DJ had done this on purpose to allow QF Golds and WP to quickly gain DJ Gold Status so they had the same flying perks we enjoy from our parent FF program and were not out in the cold, so to speak, while shifting our flight MONEY from QF to DJ.

Sure seems there is now no "DJ Welcomes QF Gold and WP FFers with a fast track DJ Gold program". Oh well and I thought they saw value in me shifting MY flying MONEY from QF to DJ and were encouraging me to do so. I mean I was ready to spend $3,500 to gain DJ Gold on flights that had no real value to me other than as a fast track to DJ Gold.

Hey DJ, you do know AA has a fast track Gold and Platinum program that works well to bring in fresh blood to their system? If not maybe have a look at it and learn something.

Just maybe guys you need to rethink your knee jerk reaction here as it just may end up costing you a LOT of long time business.

And please no comments about DJ should not encourage QF Golds and WP to quickly gain DJ Gold as it will fill up the lounges, cause it will not. What it will do is to put a LOT more money into the DJ bank account. Money that would have gone into QF's bank account. In the end of the day, that is the goal of a good DJ FFer program than encourages long time QF WPs to shift their flight money from QF and to DJ.

With the recent SC earning "Enhancements" and the no miles or SCs on the 2 4 1 Amex J tickets, guys you may have just shot yourself in the foot.

 

[connieguy]

I agree that the stated goal posts shouldn't keep moving (although I tend to think that the original wording reflected the intention - the lates wording reflects what they implemented!). I also think that for people that made bookings based on the previous wording should have that honoured.

In a PM with VR, he made it VERY clear to me that the intention was to credit SC on a per flight (each take off to landing) basis. It was very shortly after our discussion that the DJ web site changed to reflect the SC earn per sector wording.

So no they did not make a mistake with the 2nd wording. It was their clear intention to award SCs on a per flight basis and not on a per ticket basis.

With the 3rd wording they have CHANGED their decision on this issue to stop SC runs. Clear as the nose on your face.

Hey I do hope it was not CrazyDave's call to do the SC earn per flight and that got him the boot?

Anyway we should not let them off the hook on this. They responded to our concerns, changed the wording and have now changed their minds again. As I said before, I think they have over reacted to what a very small number of individuals planned to do and have caused a much bigger PR issue.

 

[leemin]

In a PM with VR, he made it VERY clear to me that the intention was to credit SC on a per flight (each take off to landing) basis. It was very shortly after our discussion that the DJ web site changed to reflect the SC earn per sector wording.

Agreed. After some initial confusion, it was both on here and on the website made extraordinarily clear that a sector was essentially a flight number. This has changed very quietly and that's simply not on. If I were not a member of this forum, I would have not been aware of the change, assumed I had read the program's changes and booked flights according to the now old SC rules. While it may not be technically wrong, it hasn't been done in good faith.

Hey I do hope it was not CrazyDave's call to do the SC earn per flight and that got him the boot?

Ditto! :shock:

 

[oz_mark]

So no they did not make a mistake with the 2nd wording. It was their clear intention to award SCs on a per flight basis and not on a per ticket basis.

With the 3rd wording they have CHANGED their decision on this issue to stop SC runs. Clear as the nose on your face.

That's fine, we can disagree on why they have changed the wording. (I think it is matching the way it is implemented - now it may be that they are working to get it the way they intended, but it may take a while!)

 

[connieguy]

Just to be VERY clear DJ knew 100% what they were doing when they did the flight* SC earn modifications. Here are the questions I PMed VR:

==========
Hi VR,

I'm a QF Platinum who is seriously considering moving my flying to Virgin and your associates. Last QF year I earned 3,250 SCs so I do a lot of flying.

If I may I have a few questions that the Virgin web site has not helped me to resolve:

1) On a ticket with 2 or more flights, are the miles for that flight:
a) the total of the GCR (Great Circle Route) miles for each of the individual flights?
b) the GCR miles between the ticket start and end points?

2) How does Virgin define a Sector:
a) the first takeoff to last landing of the ticket as one sector even if the ticket has multiple takeoffs and landings?
b) the takeoff to landing of each flight flown is 1 sector?
c) the takeoff to landing of a single flight number even if the ticket / flight number has multiple takeoffs and landings?

Thanks in advance,
==========
[Content deleted by Mod - PM content cannot be published without the express permission of the originator of the PM to make it public.]
==========

Never got the personal reply but the web site was altered shortly after to the SC earn per flight definition we all used to generate our SC runs.

So DJ KNEW 100% what they were doing when they altered the site to show SCs were earned per flight (individual take off to landing) even if they were part of a multi flight ticket.

I see this as very bad faith on the part of DJ. They KNEW what they were doing, did it and now have back tracked on their SC earn per flight decision.

Makes me nervous about seeing other advantages of DJ over QF, shifting MY flight spend MONEY (and yes this is all about ME and what benefits I get for that spend) to DJ and their partners from QF and OW and then finding out DJ have another knee jerk reaction that ends up costing me money, lost miles and SCs.

 

[medhead]

Must say I was surprised by the number of people who thought they would get SC per sector for a number of reasons. Not least of which that VA have moved from a SC per dollar spend arrangement that was based on origin and destination.

I mean I was ready to spend $3,500 to gain DJ Gold on flights that had no real value to me other than as a fast track to DJ Gold.

Compared to the cost of gold 2 weeks ago $3500 seems like a fast track.

 

[markis10]

So we'll apologise for some of the confusion around the SC's and "how it works".

The table supplied on the website is a general guide to the number of Status Credits you will earn for each one-way flight.
As a rule, if you have to change aircraft but your flight number doesn't change, it is considered the same flight. If your flight number changes during your journey, even if continuing on the same aircraft, it will be considered 2 flights.

The website is being updated now.

Thanks to those of you who PM'd specific examples, as this has helped the team iron out some of these confusing points.

I decided to do my little journey based on the above clarification over the weekend and it has cost me 120 SC, had I followed the SC zone examples then I must admit I probably would not have done it given its a 120 SC difference for a round trip, so yes the change back to the original SC earn as per the tables and the drop of the word sector has cost me!

While it has removed the opportunity for some good value SC runs, and thus deprived DJ of some revenue they wont get now (in my case it was close to 1k$ spent over the weekend ), as already mentioned at least the status levels will not be overpopulated although I doubt too many flyers take things seriously like many AFF members do (otherwise AFF membership would be a lot more than it is)!

I suppose we need to be patient, things clearly are a work in progress and this is causing the odd speed bump, hopefully we will see things a little bit more concrete as we move forward. In the mean time, can we at least get the SC earn table examples in alphabetical order, and complete, I started doing an analysis of all the fares and routes last night to determine the best earn and noticed a few examples are missing.

 

[Misha]

Whilst I agree that the confusion needs to be sorted out, aren't we fickle? From a couple of days of a VA love-in, we've gone back to "vermin bashing"...

Let's cut them some slack, with so many changed across the board, it's inevitable that some things will stuff up. Yes they are a massive company, but with so many individual members/departments, sometimes people will talk at cross purposes. It happens to the best of us at times, and "loyal" customers must bear those too... Not saying we can't grumble grumble though

The VA reps on this site have always been forthcoming with their actions and intentions, and we should allow them to respond to this too without arranging a lynch mob first.

History would suggest that those people who have already undertaken status runs may not be screwed if they PM an authorised rep. They've shown they value our patronage and feedback and am positive they will address your concerns, and hopefully honour trips booked at a time where the website indicated per-sector earning.

QF, AA, Anz and others all make mistakes - yes it's not ideal... But let's see what they have to say first. Those inconvenienced of course have a gripe, though I'd wager you're better off having it heard by VA than other airlines, or organisations...

I was looking forward to SC runs too - but time will tell if we can do it or not. If not, I'll be somewhat down - but don't expect to leave VA for it

The way a company addresses errors/issues is a great indication of their stuff as much as their products/services...

I for one will "watch this space..." But I make it clear I'm not having a go at anyone... Let's just give them the opportunity to come back with answers/comments/justification... Or apologies if needed

My two cents

Misha

 

[concorde71]

Firstly let me say, I dont agree or disagree with the SC earn rate, I think personally they made it too easy, and its actually easier now to get gold than it was last month (Which is a positive thing)Its the bloody chopping and changing, and then SILENCE from an extremely active PR group that has really amazed me. You have people on here who are in positions that bring in $100k's worth of travel, in premium cabins usually, and they are screwing around with the system every second day.
OK everybody Bend Over! look out its VONTAS. I thought they didnt want to be another Qantas. They have a bloody funny way of showing it. It appears the real Virgin is rearing it ugly head, I bet a lot of QF flyers who were about to take the plunge, are now relaxing back in the Qantas club.... Oh and where are the VA reps when the **** hits the fan... Answers anyone???
Hope the free lunch was good AFF5 as it appears it was the last supper.

 

[sydstar]

The main issue I have with all of this is the indecsion....choose a rule and stick to it!!

But seriously, why not keep the per sector system?? Despite all the talk of NTL runs, funnily enough NTL is my 'home' port. Next time I would go to MEL, I would have honestly considered going via BNE in Y+ for the 100SC earn. I know there is a direct flight, but AFAIK it leaves in the middle of the day, which just doesn't work for me.

Yes, Gold was easy to acheive, but was that such a bad thing? Tempt a few QF flyers to try the other side? Honestly, how many of DJ's pax would embark on stauts runs?? A few thousand?? Even though gold was going to be 'given away' for little $$ spend, surely the goodwill generated would have been worth it!! Allow a QF flyer to earn DJ gold (by flying, not matching), thus giving them a serious choice for future flights with feet in both camps, and thus more likely to choose DJ over QF then without that Gold piece of plastic. Would this system really lead to lounge overcrowding?

I'm waiting as to what I choose to do in the future. Until DJ announce the ins-and-outs of the NZ and SQ tie-ups, as well as international lounge policies, I'll probably stick to QF and my trusty QP membership

 

[Velocity Frequent Flyer]

Hi guys,

Re: Info on website. After receiving a number of enquiries about the Status Credit earn rates, we looked to provide further clarity through additional information on the website. We apologise for the confusion this may have caused. To be clear, this is the process...

When you purchase a single fare with Virgin Australia, Pacific Blue or Polynesian Blue and via a point which does not involve a stopover, the Status Credits are awarded on the mileage from origin to destination.

So, if you book a formal connection flight, which is when you book your trip from your departure point to your final destination, e.g. TSV-BNE-SYD, as one fare, then you are awarded Status Credits as TSV-SYD. When booking this way it will ensure you get 2 boarding passes at check-in, your baggage is checked through to your final destination and it allows for shorter minimum connecting times.

Informal connection flights are when you book your flights separately, e.g. TSV-BNE and then BNE-SYD as separate bookings. You then earn SC for each separate flight booking. If you book this way, you will only get your first boarding pass issued at check-in, you will need to collect your baggage and check-in again for your next flight which will then result in a longer connection time being required at the mid point.

Please note, this is always the way SC have been rewarded, however, previously they were allocated based on dollars spent.

For any bookings you have made up until this post, we will honor the SC earn you thought you would receive. Please PM your details including your membership number and flight details after your travel and we will be in contact with you.

Please note, that we will be action your feedback regarding the earn rates with our airline partners by providing further information on the website in the coming days.

Apologies again for any confusion, and we appreciate your feedback.

 

[Virgin Australia]

Oh and where are the VA reps when the **** hits the fan... Answers anyone???
Hope the free lunch was good AFF5 as it appears it was the last supper.

Concorde, we've had a little on with the ash cloud issues and quite a number of guests to help.

 

[drfs]

Hi guys,

For any bookings you have made up until this post, we will honor the SC earn you thought you would receive. Please PM your details including your membership number and flight details after your travel and we will be in contact with you.

Ok, thanks for that. I will send through details once my booking is complete on the 26th. (Apologies, can't PM yet owing to too few posts).

 

[concorde71]

Concorde, we've had a little on with the ash cloud issues and quite a number of guests to help.

Fair call, sorry

 

[leemin]

Re: Info on website. After receiving a number of enquiries about the Status Credit earn rates, we looked to provide further clarity through additional information on the website.

The first or this second time?

this is always the way SC have been rewarded, however, previously they were allocated based on dollars spent

However, the previous language (after the first change) used flight numbers in it's examples. I don't think I or anyone else here were confused on this point. The previous example specifically stated that a change in flight number meant a new sector. With respect, I find it hard to believe that there was confusion at either end (DJ or AFF) about the meaning of the previous examples and what you state was the policy all along.

For any bookings you have made up until this post, we will honor the SC earn you thought you would receive.

This is good to hear in any case.

 

[notzac]

So, if you book a formal connection flight, which is when you book your trip from your departure point to your final destination, e.g. TSV-BNE-SYD, as one fare, then you are awarded Status Credits as TSV-SYD. When booking this way it will ensure you get 2 boarding passes at check-in, your baggage is checked through to your final destination and it allows for shorter minimum connecting times.

OK - thanks for the clarification. But could you please explain what happens in this circumstance..? If I book MEL-SYD-AUH-DUB and return, I have previously received points and SCs for each sector. Is it now the case that I will receive a single entry on my statement MEL-DUB and earn points and SCs as if it were a single sector?

And if that's not the case because it's booked through VA in a separate booking engine to DJ, what will happen when the two are merged in to one by the end of the year (going out on a limb here, but I assume that's what will happen)

I'm sorry if this seems like such a little thing to be worrying about, but the answers will materially change how I intend to book and manage my future travel.

 

[markis10]

Concorde, we've had a little on with the ash cloud issues and quite a number of guests to help.

As one of the affected guests who was helped significantly with the ash cloud issue, can I say their priorities were very much in the right place as far as I was concerned, which is why I will wait for a while re the SC issue!

 

[concorde71]

As one of the affected guests who was helped significantly with the ash cloud issue, can I say their priorities were very much in the right place as far as I was concerned, which is why I will wait for a while re the SC issue!

Excuse my ignorance, but they can change all the terms and conditions of their SC earning by modifying their website etc, but cannot clarify their changes here because of the ash cloud.
Im not trying to have a dig, as I understand the staff have been busy, however all the BS about too busy, when they in fact have the time to change their website

 

[Virgin Australia]

Excuse my ignorance, but they can change all the terms and conditions of their SC earning by modifying their website etc, but cannot clarify their changes here because of the ash cloud.
Im not trying to have a dig, as I understand the staff have been busy, however all the BS about too busy, when they in fact have the time to change their website

Website development and maintenance is a completely different team to digital and social interactions online.

 

[markis10]

Excuse my ignorance, but they can change all the terms and conditions of their SC earning by modifying their website etc, but cannot clarify their changes here because of the ash cloud.
Im not trying to have a dig, as I understand the staff have been busy, however all the BS about too busy, when they in fact have the time to change their website

Glad I did not have a web developer trying to reschedule my cancelled Sunday flight to Melbourne or trying to tell me what flights were running Monday, thank goodness for lounge dragons and facebook/twitter and AFF!