Very disappointed about Qantas FF program

[Litesource]

So the problem here is May 2025. You're 3 months from your desired travel time. This is pretty much the most awkward timing.

Your realistic routing to NBO is almost certainly on emirates via dubai (DXB).

A quick search on emirates about 9-12 months out shows availability all the time. But if you then narrow it to much closer there's almost nothing mainly because it's all booked.

But if you wait to about 4-6 weeks before loads more open up again. I believe there's availability for PER - DXB for every other day in March. SYD/MEL is a lot closer to flight dates (or they could be booked already with how fast people are with alerts these days).

QFF has value, but it is much harder to extract the value because the value now because of increased people looking as well as the ease of the tools thats available.

Those searches for example took me 5 mins on my phone to do and another a minute on the QF website to verify they exist.

Edit: even re-reading that you started your search in Nov, thats about 8 months out so 3 months after the first wave of awards were released on emirates.
Just curious but was your search specifically Australia (SYD/MEL/BNE) > Dubai (DXB) and DXB > Nairobi (NBO) or just a general Australia> Nairobi?

Hi Elanshin thanks for your reply, the origin departure is Melbourne.
* Also woundering who do members suggest to complain to about this, I tried The Airline Customer Advocate but they simply reply with Qantas' standard line.
* I have also complained to the ACCC & am awaiting a reply

 

[SeatBackForward]

Qantas seriously ought to rebrand QFF into "Qantas Points Exchange" and have something entirely different for actual flyers.

 

[DAC1]

Hi Elanshin thanks for your reply, the origin departure is Melbourne.
* Also woundering who do members suggest to complain to about this, I tried The Airline Customer Advocate but they simply reply with Qantas' standard line.
* I have also complained to the ACCC & am awaiting a reply

What is it that you are looking to achieve by making a complaint?

 

[DC3]

Many awards need to be booked almost a year ahead. Even then, we may not get what we want. Africa will be problematic.

 

[Litesource]

What is it that you are looking to achieve by making a complaint?

I want to pressure Qantas to provide seats within a reasonable time, at the rates they publish in their Points calculator, ie 108,400 each way from Melb to Johannesburg return for Business Class seats as I have a back condition & cant fly economy on such a long flight.

 

[DC3]

I have written directly to Vanessa Hudson the CEO & Andvrew Glance CEO of Qantas rewards but although I got a call from someone from his dept it lead nowhere as have other calls, I've wasted many hours I dont have.

With About 16 million QFFers out there, I wouldn’t be expecting the CEO to personally deal with our complaints/enquiries.

Although it seems that you have been flexible in routing, dates, airlines, there’s no guarantees in the Award redemption game. And it hasn’t got any easier.

 

[Mattg]

I want to pressure Qantas to provide seats within a reasonable time, at the rates they publish in their Points calculator, ie 108,400 each way from Melb to Johannesburg return for Business Class seats as I have a back condition & cant fly economy on such a long flight.

I'm sorry, but I don't think this is going to happen. In fairness to Qantas, they don't guarantee business class reward seats on any particular flight/route.

I'm sure we would all love for Qantas to release more Classic Reward seats - and I do agree that there seems to be a lack of these at the moment on premium long-haul flights. Perhaps this could be in the form of a minimum reward seat guarantee, similar to BA or AY.

But in the absence of this, you need to play the game using the cards dealt to you. This article summarises how I make QFF's award availability work for me, perhaps there might be some ideas you could take away from it:

How I Make Qantas Reward Availability Work for Me

It's much easier to redeem Qantas points for great value reward flights if you use the program as it's intended.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

The other options to you are basically to get Platinum status and request Qantas to release seats for you, or diversify and try using a different frequent flyer program. There are other programs and airlines out there. If you're collecting points mainly from credit cards, this is exactly why I recommend collecting points in a flexible bank program that you can transfer out as needed to the best program for each redemption you want to make.

 

[Dr Ralph]

I want to pressure Qantas to provide seats within a reasonable time

Dreamin. This is not how it works.

Not sure how you thought this was possible especially given you state in your first post "After accruing Qantas points over many years..." Have you ever actually searched for reward offerings over those 'many years'?

 

[DC3]

I've wasted many hours I dont have.

Don’t be too harsh on yourself. We’ve all been there at some point.

 

[Daver6]

This thread highlights the fundamental problem. AFFers know how limited award seats are and how the system really works. The problem is Joe Public who isn't all clued up on it and hasn't read all the fine print lands up believing that they should be able to redeem their points in the class of travel they want for the advertised classic award rates.

The way QFF is marketed this belief isn't entirely unreasonable. It's only when you invest a lot of your own time and energy reading the fine print and investigating for yourself how limited the award seats are that you realise the whole thing is a bit of a con.

@Litesource, I feel your pain. However, you're not going to get anywhere complaining about this. Qantas will just refer you to all the small print outlining why they can get away with what they do.

 

[andye]

Out of interest and from the more experienced hands, has it ever been the case that you could reasonably expect to get two J award seats anywhere in the Oneworld network (or even the QF international) at a close-enough time of your choosing without status?

 

[WilsonM]

Out of interest and from the more experienced hands, has it ever been the case that you could reasonably expect to get two J award seats anywhere in the Oneworld network (or even the QF international) at a close-enough time of your choosing without status?

Partner availability isn't affected by status - Bronze and Platinum One all see the same seats on Qantas partners. It's only on Qantas metal that you can see extra seats/get access earlier/request seats with status.

Finnair have a guarantee of 4 seats in long-haul J, for example. These get taken, obviously, but it's a pretty sure bet. JFK-LHR and v.v. is also often widely available for 2 seats in J, but the taxes are astronomical exUK.

The biggest issue facing QFF members is getting to/from Australia - everyone needs to do it, and there's limited options. So high demand, low supply. Once you get out of Australia, there's a lot more options.

 

[Dr Ralph]

Out of interest and from the more experienced hands, has it ever been the case that you could reasonably expect to get two J award seats anywhere in the Oneworld network (or even the QF international) at a close-enough time of your choosing without status?

'Expected'. Nope. Does it occur with some frequency? Yes.

 

[andye]

To rephrase the question, has QFF ever operated in a way that the OP (and I'm sure a large number of other relatively inactive members) has assumed that it would work (accrue enough points over time, near guarantee a particular premium flight)

 

[serfty]

Finnair have a guarantee of 4 seats in long-haul J, for example. These get taken, obviously, but it's a pretty sure bet. JFK-LHR and v.v. is also often widely available for 2 seats in J, but the taxes are astronomical exUK.

"Taxes" - what proportion are generally carrier surcharges compared with the UK APD and other government taxes/surcharges with these exUK bookings

This week I booked a Business award MEL-NAN-LAX on FJ using QFF points.

+++ was AUD196 with $0 carrier surcharge.

 

[anat0l]

@Litesource, I feel your pain. However, you're not going to get anywhere complaining about this. Qantas will just refer you to all the small print outlining why they can get away with what they do.

First of all, the way many of these replies are coming across, I think it might appear to the OP that we are all just conceding that it can never get better than this. A little bit like the frogs in a barrel analogy, where one frog tries to climb out, but the other frogs drag it down, because everyone else is convinced that there is no good to escaping the barrel.

I can't remember what happened to the investigation from ages ago when Qantas was accused of misleading the public with regards to sale fares, e.g. they advertise SYD-MEL for $99 one way, but then "no seats" (or few seats) would be available at those prices. Or when Ticketek sell seats for a concert and all the seats at a certain price point run out, were Ticketek misleading people by saying that there were seats at said price available in the first place? This is a similar situation.

I'm not sure the OP's demand is "reasonable" as such, in a way that it is something that the ACCC or any regulatory body can enforce. They really just want those seats and they believe they are entitled to them. Almost reads a bit like the Fawlty Towers episode where the US man sits in the restaurant and "reasonably" demands a Waldorf Salad, even though it's not on the menu. Attempting to leverage that a bad back necessitates Business Class is not likely to work.

If no one complained to the ACCC about bank fees - i.e. fees should only reflect the actual cost of business and not be excessively over that - we may never have had that reform. But in order to enact what the OP wants for everyone, I'd posit that QF would have to offer every available seat to be paid as a Classic Award or being paid with cash, i.e. "if you can buy the seat with cash, you can also have it for points", and somehow make this work for partners, too. That would collapse the entire system, unless the award costs were increased significantly, or system is moved to dynamic pricing.

 

[albatross710]

Sure the impression that the consumer would get through the initial marketing of FF programs is that it is possible to be 'rewarded' whereas it seems QFF and VFF have quickly become the frequently shafted flyers.

The upfront marketing blurb is that consumers will be flying in no time and be able to fly to exotic places. ************


The OP 'man in the street' has been drawn into the allure, has modified has spending patterns, supported the QF programs only to find out that the loyalty only went one way.

I don't think our efforts should be on trying to find reward seats 11.75 months in advance.

Are there genuinely enough seats available to justify the rate at which these programs are being promoted? What is the right number relative to the size of the accumulated miles in the programs.

Qantas was forced to change policy on Covid credit refunds, baggage handlers and their previous CEO. Let's work out how to get the OP's problem in front of another Senate enquiry.

 

[DAC1]

Let's work out how to get the OP's problem in front of another Senate enquiry.

It already is.

O

Thread 'Qantas frequent flyers unleash over ‘almost worthless points’ in submissions to Senate'

Oct 3, 2023

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/qantas-frequent-flyers-unleash-over-almost-worthless-points-in-submissions-to-senate/news-story/d4893556b17d205034eaaaf8866f91db

Excerpts:

Public submissions to the Senate inquiry into bilateral air rights have revealed widespread fury about the Qantas frequent flyer program

“Utterly useless”, “a complete gouge”, “junk points” and “a big scam” were among the terms used to describe the frequent flyer scheme which turned a $451m profit in the 2023 financial year.

• offshore171
• Replies: 273
• Forum: Qantas | Frequent Flyer

 

[SYD]

To rephrase the question, has QFF ever operated in a way that the OP (and I'm sure a large number of other relatively inactive members) has assumed that it would work (accrue enough points over time, near guarantee a particular premium flight)

No. You’ve generally had to book months out for seats in premium cabins on QF metal. The more recent batch releases post Covid are a bit of anomaly and not normal (and there actually haven’t been any that recently).

Economy, seats used to be easier but even those have gone AWOL.

Trying to get to a premium seat to somewhere that QF doesn’t actually fly to has always been a cough shoot and obviously at the whims of the partner airlines.

 

[WilsonM]

"Taxes" - what proportion are generally carrier surcharges compared with the UK APD and other government taxes/surcharges with these exUK bookings

This week I booked a Business award MEL-NAN-LAX on FJ using QFF points.

+++ was AUD196 with $0 carrier surcharge.

Depends on the airline - if it's AA, it's much less than on BA.

Regardless, my use of "taxes" is a bit misleading - you're right in the regard it should be taxes, fees and carrier charges.