Virgin Australia B737 Max 8

[RooFlyer]

WSI will be a game changer. Eventually all the big guns will be out there and it will be the biggest and busiest airport in Australia eventually IMO

Yep. I assume it will be cheaper for airlines to operate out of there, and if so, airlines will nudge/force pax there by pricing and scheduling.

 

[ben95]

Eventually all the big guns will be out there and it will be the biggest and busiest airport in Australia eventually IMO

Only if they commit to shutting down or significantly restrict operations at Mascot Airport. Otherwise Melbourne Tullamarine will most likely become the biggest and busiest airport in Australia in the future once its 3rd runway is complete.

LHR is a prime example of that phenomenom already. When it comes to airport selection location and access is king. Maybe when Parramatta over takes Sydney CBD that balance will start to shift but otherwise airlines will always try to get more slot at Mascot Airport. It's only when slots becomes too hard to get or cost to operate at Mascot becomes too expensive then moving flights to WSI becomes an attractive option. I wouldn't be suprised to see Qantas Group free up slots at Mascot by moving Jetstar only to add more flights into Mascot for Qantas to meet the demand of all of its high margin business travelers.

 

[Himeno]

LHR is a prime example of that phenomenom already. When it comes to airport selection location and access is king. Maybe when Parramatta over takes Sydney CBD that balance will start to shift but otherwise airlines will always try to get more slot at Mascot Airport. It's only when slots becomes too hard to get or cost to operate at Mascot becomes too expensive then moving flights to WSI becomes an attractive option. I wouldn't be suprised to see Qantas Group free up slots at Mascot by moving Jetstar only to add more flights into Mascot for Qantas to meet the demand of all of its high margin business travelers.

So you're saying that you expect WSI to be like AVV, DWC or even NRT to an extent compared to MEL, DXB or HND?

 

[ben95]

So you're saying that you expect WSI to be like AVV, DWC or even NRT

Yes, it would be the NRT/LGW of Sydney. It will still grow and be a decent-sized airport (unlike the sad AVV), but if you talk about volume then I expect MEL to grow to bigger than SYD or WSI in the medium term but SYD+WSI would still have more volume than MEL. It's just simply because there's nothing diverting traffic away from Tullarmarine and still plenty of space to grow and build new runways/terminals in the original land the federal government bought in the 1950s.

Anyway... a bit off topic here but the point is I think VA should prioritise SYD over WSI in the short-medium term. It helps with network and efficiency (so cost) if you concentrat on one airport.

 

[Saab34]

Anyway... a bit off topic here but the point is I think VA should prioritise SYD over WSI in the short-medium term. It helps with network and efficiency (so cost) if you concentrat on one airport.

Gaining WSI market share is the important thing. That needs to be in place from the day it opens. WSI will likely suffer low yield and overcapacity from the get go, but that will revert over time.

 

[elanshin]

Semi relevant but how does everyone feel about getting on a MAX now compared with NG?

At first I was under the logic that the MAX is the most scrutinized plane ever and thus it should be safe now. Clearly that is not the case so what's everyone's opinions now?

 

[Saab34]

Semi relevant but how does everyone feel about getting on a MAX now compared with NG?

At first I was under the logic that the MAX is the most scrutinized plane ever and thus it should be safe now. Clearly that is not the case so what's everyone's opinions now?

That’s a tough question. Seem to have two parts to the MAX. Boeing Software issues, and Spirit issues. It would appear they are on top of software problems, and I am confident that all pilots are now well trained to do with any trim issues.

Spirit Aerosystems is what concerns me. The plane is a lemon, no denying that. MAX10, well I would wait a couple of years to see what issues arise.

I do worry about what other things Spirit has missed that could lead to something more catastrophic when the holes all line up. Doesn’t take much, some missing bolts, loose bolts, or wrongly drilled holes, could lead to something fatal.

 

[jb747]

At first I was under the logic that the MAX is the most scrutinized plane ever and thus it should be safe now. Clearly that is not the case so what's everyone's opinions now?

Scrutiny is not the same as actually fixing the issues. The problem with the 737 is that Boeing was so locked into the idea of keeping the old design going, that it's simply impossible to bring it up to modern standards. For instance, it's a requirement for all new type certifications that an aircraft have an EICAS/ECAM system. Every Boeing type other than the 737 does. But they're currently begging Congress to allow them yet another exemption so that they can release the -10 onto the world without such a system....which has only been in use for around 40 years.

 

[Saab34]

When you say modern standards, would that also be ditching the yoke and going sidestick? Isn’t FBW better suited to a sidestick?

 

[AIRwin]

VH-8ID has left MLB on its way to BNE

 

[ThatMrBlake]

VH-8ID has left MLB on its way to BNE

Wonder if this one will be the first one with a cabin divider…if not we are past the early 2024 timeframe.

 

[ben95]

ditching the yoke and going sidestick

Seems unlikely. 777 and 787 are fly by wire but still has the yoke. I guess if Boeing is to ditch the yoke it would have done so back then.

 

[jb747]

When you say modern standards, would that also be ditching the yoke and going sidestick? Isn’t FBW better suited to a sidestick?

No. FBW is totally agnostic when it comes to the input method. The negative to the Airbus style of sidestick is that they don’t provide feedback from the other side. It can be done, but AB have chosen not to do so. On the other hand, interconnected yokes do provide such feedback, but their only real positive beyond that is that of pilot continuity and training. Having used both, I far prefer the AB implementation.

There don’t seem to be any complete listings of the sort of things that Boeing has managed to grandfather, and I can imagine that nobody would want to fly with them at all if such a list were out there.

FBW is not a requirement for new aircraft, but it offers massive safety and engineering advantages. It is hard to believe that new aircraft are being sold without envelope protection. MCAS was in some ways a poor attempt at this, but anything that uses the stab as a primary control is suspect at best (the stab has more power than the elevator, which is why it’s so dangerous).

The lack of an EICAS in a new aircraft, when Boeing first started delivering these systems 40 years ago, is beyond poor.

Noise level, particularly in the coughpit, is grandfathered.

Doors (and slide/rafts) do not meet modern standards.

And some rules give undeserved commercial advantage. For instance in the calculations for V1, the 737 is able to use a standard that was replaced prior to the introduction of the A320. The upshot is that it can gain a few thousand kilos of take off weight, over the AB, because it’s allowed to use a form of calculation that is less realistic. If the modern rules were applied, out of shorter runways, they’d have less weight available, or not be able to operate at all. It’s interesting that this annoys AB so much that they’re going to ask for their aircraft to be exempted as well. Of course, they don’t expect this to be allowed, but when it’s not, it will have placed the regulators on some thin(ner) ice.

 

[ThatMrBlake]

VH-8ID has left MLB on its way to BNE

Has now arrived into Brisbane.

 

[twinaisle]

8IA/C Will be heading back to the US soon to get Next Gen internet configuration installed.

 

[AIRwin]

Has now arrived into Brisbane.

And VH-8ID is scheduled on its maiden commercial flight to Perth on Monday

 

[Saab34]

AFR reports VA is intending to switch the 10 for the 8.

But no word on the 9. I assume the numbers around the 9 don’t stack up for whatever reason.

 

[AIRwin]

Wonder if this will help with deliveries?

Lynx Air and Boeing agree to terminate 737 Max purchase deal

Canadian operator Lynx Air has reached a formal agreement with Boeing to cancel a large aircraft purchase deal, following the airline's cessation of operations in February. The original deal dates back to October 2015 and covered the purchase of 40 aircraft plus the lease of six more. According...

www.flightglobal.com

 

[HS-TQE]

Wonder if this will help with deliveries?

Lynx Air and Boeing agree to terminate 737 Max purchase deal

Canadian operator Lynx Air has reached a formal agreement with Boeing to cancel a large aircraft purchase deal, following the airline's cessation of operations in February. The original deal dates back to October 2015 and covered the purchase of 40 aircraft plus the lease of six more. According...

www.flightglobal.com

It may potentially help with bringing the -8 deliveries forward, but can see the larger customers being prioritised ahead of VA if they jump in earlier.

 

[mattew225]

Clearly that is not the case so what's everyone's opinions now?

At this point its still a tough call - I was on the same page as you previously, in that you'd think the MAX would now have no stone left unturned. But Boeings issues seem to have permeated through that. I would love Virgin to do a complete u turn and go all Airbus but obviously a crazed fantasy