Virgin Australia orders 8 Embraer E190-E2 jets for delivery from 2025

[Harrison_133]

Now the next question, will they install J!

The press release does say they'll be configured in two-by-two seating, so I'll guess that's a no.

 

[PERLHR]

The press release does say they'll be configured in two-by-two seating, so I'll guess that's a no.

Of course in Europe that 2-2 would be a standard biz config...,...with empty seat beside. Oh how lucky Australia is....,..maybe!

 

[Saab34]

Hopefully this means the A320s can go away in the not too far future. Doesn’t seem practical having 737/E190/320. Surely the costs offloading the Airbus and putting that into the Ejet program is a no brainer. Don’t get me wrong, these EJet’s are not cheap to lease vs the A320, but you remove all that cost associated with the hellships.

 

[Harrison_133]

Hopefully this means the A320s can go away in the not too far future. Doesn’t seem practical having 737/E190/320. Surely the costs offloading the Airbus and putting that into the Ejet program is a no brainer. Don’t get me wrong, these EJet’s are not cheap to lease vs the A320, but you remove all that cost associated with the hellships.

They've said the E190s will complement VARA's fleet of "larger narrowbodies" meaning the A320s.

If anything, the E190s will free up 737-700 capacity which can be re-directed to the East Coast.

 

[Must...Fly!]

It's a complicated mixed fleet answer to a pretty complicated question.

Given these will be initially dedicated (mostly) to the charter market the economics are a bit different.

 

[servicerequired]

I dare say that we will eventually see these flying around on the east coast to ABX, MQL, DBO, WGA, etc ... particularly if Rex 2.0 are still flying clapped out SAABs.

 

[Saab34]

It’s a very expensive machine to be flying to thin margin regional airports.

E2 isn’t cheap to lease unlike mid life E190s. Likely somewhere in the $300k/month range. A mid to late life E190 is not even $100k month.

I’d expect WA based plus Transcon weekends.

 

[HS-TQE]

I dare say that we will eventually see these flying around on the east coast to ABX, MQL, DBO, WGA, etc ... particularly if Rex 2.0 are still flying clapped out SAABs.

They'll need to add onto their order of 8 in the future, but can't see it in the short term (if at all).

They might add onto their order of 8, but they'll likely be based in PER for VARA and may potentially be used for thin interstate ex-PER to HBA/LST/NTL/CNS/etc in-between FIFO work.

There's also the requirement of setting up a SYD or BNE E190 base (again) and likely expensive use of CapEx if they want to set up on the East Coast, esp if they're going be under the VARA payroll rather than mainline VA.

 

[eastwest101]

It’s a very expensive machine to be flying to thin margin regional airports.

E2 isn’t cheap to lease unlike mid life E190s. Likely somewhere in the $300k/month range. A mid to late life E190 is not even $100k month.

I’d expect WA based plus Transcon weekends.

Yeah - same thoughts as you - seems a bit peculiar to be ordering brand spanking new E190s with their higher lease costs and then flying them on FIFO work in WA (plus some long thin routes within WA) even given a few clients might want the most efficient aircraft possible to meet Scope 3 emissions targets, my question is what happens if the clients go cold on the idea of Scope 3 emissions targets or the price of iron ore tanks in the future? Without J class they will have limited revenue-earning potential transcon on the weekend/night/back of the clock and with a dedicated J class cabin they aren't FIFO aircraft anymore....

Why not just buy or lease used E190s like most sensible charter operators do? I understand the F100's are aging, and the idea of freeing up some B737-700s to go back east makes sense, as does the hot and high performance of the E190s in some of those FIFO airports.

As others have said - ignore what the previous iteration of VA did - many operators worldwide make money flying E190s so there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the economics or maintenance of the E190, it must just have been stupid leasing terms. Same case with the A330 - lots of airlines make money flying A330s - it takes a special case of dumb leasing choices to lose money flying A330s as well.

It might just be about delivery slots? Obviously, Boeing couldn't deliver a Pizza to a Uni dorm room on time at the moment, and the Airbus A320 and A220 production lines would already have long waiting lists, so maybe if they really wanted brand new for some reason it was E190-E2's or walking as the only two choices?

 

[jakeseven7]

.

As others have said - ignore what the previous iteration of VA did - many operators worldwide make money flying E190s so there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the economics or maintenance of the E190, it must just have been stupid leasing terms.

Leasing terms sure but that was definitely not the whole picture as to what went wrong with the VA1 foray with ejets, they also had massive reliability issues / engineering troubles for some reason too.

But you are right, other airlines seem to make the work! QF Group / Alliance seem to be in love with them right now too.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Yeah - same thoughts as you - seems a bit peculiar to be ordering brand spanking new E190s with their higher lease costs and then flying them on FIFO work in WA (plus some long thin routes within WA) even given a few clients might want the most efficient aircraft possible to meet Scope 3 emissions targets, my question is what happens if the clients go cold on the idea of Scope 3 emissions targets or the price of iron ore tanks in the future? Without J class they will have limited revenue-earning potential transcon on the weekend/night/back of the clock and with a dedicated J class cabin they aren't FIFO aircraft anymore....

Why not just buy or lease used E190s like most sensible charter operators do? I understand the F100's are aging, and the idea of freeing up some B737-700s to go back east makes sense, as does the hot and high performance of the E190s in some of those FIFO airports.

As others have said - ignore what the previous iteration of VA did - many operators worldwide make money flying E190s so there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the economics or maintenance of the E190, it must just have been stupid leasing terms. Same case with the A330 - lots of airlines make money flying A330s - it takes a special case of dumb leasing choices to lose money flying A330s as well.

It might just be about delivery slots? Obviously, Boeing couldn't deliver a Pizza to a Uni dorm room on time at the moment, and the Airbus A320 and A220 production lines would already have long waiting lists, so maybe if they really wanted brand new for some reason it was E190-E2's or walking as the only two choices?

Bain are pulling the purse strings still, I think fair to say if this didn't stack up financially it wouldn't be done.

 

[TY24]

Hopefully this means the A320s can go away in the not too far future. Doesn’t seem practical having 737/E190/320. Surely the costs offloading the Airbus and putting that into the Ejet program is a no brainer. Don’t get me wrong, these EJet’s are not cheap to lease vs the A320, but you remove all that cost associated with the hellships.

If anything it will mean VARA stop pinching 738's off mainline for charter flights, similarly hopefully means the A320's will disappear from interstate services they currently get deployed on.

I used to fly VARA twice weekly for work. My first 6 months were almost always on an A320, then the next 2 years I only got A320's a handful of times and ended up being on 738's more often than not. (Definitely not complaining, as I always got Economy X for free)

The 738's also don't enjoy the North-West summers as much as the A320's.

 

[Saab34]

It might just be about delivery slots? Obviously, Boeing couldn't deliver a Pizza to a Uni dorm room on time at the moment, and the Airbus A320 and A220 production lines would already have long waiting lists, so maybe if they really wanted brand new for some reason it was E190-E2's or walking as the only two choices?

Likely. Even if they wanted MAX7, not even certified yet and no slots for a long while, let alone getting accurate delivery timeframes.

If Virgin has been able to get contract improvements on the financial front by operating new aircraft for said clients, then good for them. Historically the mining ops has always commanded mid to late life aircraft to maintain high margin.

Is enough margin on transcon to make it work during off periods, which would then enable 737s to head elsewhere. But these aircraft operating MQL or other smaller regional areas out East, the numbers just don’t stack up, goes back to the Bonza scenario with operating extremely expensive equipment into small margin markets. A mid life E190 would be a different story.

 

[Mattg]

@AviatorInsight turns out there was some truth to this rumour from 2018!

What date in 2017 [now 2018] will the last E190 VA flight be?

VH-ZPT left Australia today. And according to flightradar24, VH-ZPH left Australia on 21 February...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[Scarlett]

VARA still need to keep the A320s for the CCK / XCH services, unless they’ll use the E2 for those as well?

Actually I recall Airlink were flying an Embraer out to St Helena, so I wonder what the comparison is:
PER-CCK 1585nm
JNB-HLE 1990nm

 

[dajop]

Actually I recall Airlink were flying an Embraer out to St Helena, so I wonder what the comparison is:
PER-CCK 1585nm
JNB-HLE 1990nm

Actually don’t seem to have the legs to make the westbound flight, it stops at Walvis Bay, enroute whilst the eastbound is non stop.

 

[Scarlett]

Actually don’t seem to have the legs to make the westbound flight, it stops at Walvis Bay, enroute whilst the eastbound is non stop.

Ahh yes. Of course. With no alternative out there they’d need to plan for a return back to the African continent somewhere.

Now that I think of it, our A320 flight out to Cocos did actually stop for refueling in Learmonth. So both of those westbound legs in my previous post do have an intermediate stop.

Guess we’ll see in due course whether hellships are still fragged for the Indian Ocean Territories or replaced by the newer jets (which I imagine will be delivered with a fairly tight seat pitch).

 

[Must...Fly!]

Problem with the E90 vs A320 is hold space. Lots of freight and luggage on the Island flights