Virgin Australia testing In-Flight Internet!

[Jack Melon]

The whole thing makes sense. It would save VA from putting in IFE screen on every single aircraft, especially more and more people are carrying smart phones/tabs these days. However it also means that JQ can offer this service as well so you wonder whether JQ can actually "go upmarket".

Agreed, but what about everyday families with children just wanting to watch a cartoon or something, im sure a 5 year old cant use a blackberry... or can they?

 

[777]

Agreed, but what about everyday families with children just wanting to watch a cartoon or something, im sure a 5 year old cant use a blackberry... or can they?

They could rent them an ipad/ galaxy tab/ whatever. The point is Cost v. Coverage. if you can cover 60% of your passengers with 20% of the cost of putting in a seat back system (including almost all the high yield types you are trying hardest to attract) and have a rental option for the other 40% it is probably a much sounder financial equation than spending all the money to equip an entire fleet with a seat back IFE.

 

[Jack Melon]

They could rent them an ipad/ galaxy tab/ whatever. The point is Cost v. Coverage. if you can cover 60% of your passengers with 20% of the cost of putting in a seat back system (including almost all the high yield types you are trying hardest to attract) and have a rental option for the other 40% it is probably a much sounder financial equation than spending all the money to equip an entire fleet with a seat back IFE.

I still think seat back is the best in my option, gate to gate, free, whatever you want, order food from the touch of a button, games and cartoons for the kids etc. Plus they could put a internet browser on it and use the wifi equipped, if you want to use your laptop or ipad/smart phone, they can use that as well. But most people don't travel with ipads and laptops etc, for the small majority that do they can use the wifi as well as the seat back. But i would much rather seat back so i can watch tv, movies, order food, play games etc, i just took a laptop on-board jetstar and they broke it :evil:. That is my opinion. I would also expect a lot of technical difficulties some times, so if that dosent work, they have a seatback screen in front of them. I also think a portable device is a big no no, people vandalise, they take a while to hand out etc.

 

[777]

I still think seat back is the best in my option, gate to gate, free, whatever you want, order food from the touch of a button, games and cartoons for the kids etc. Plus they could put a internet browser on it and use the wifi equipped, if you want to use your laptop or ipad/smart phone, they can use that as well. But most people don't travel with ipads and laptops etc, for the small majority that do they can use the wifi as well as the seat back. But i would much rather seat back so i can watch tv, movies, order food, play games etc, i just took a laptop on-board jetstar and they broke it :evil:. That is my opinion. I would also expect a lot of technical difficulties some times, so if that dosent work, they have a seatback screen in front of them. I also think a portable device is a big no no, people vandalise, they take a while to hand out etc.

Jack, unfortunately it isn't about what you want. It's about the best combination of price v. performance. What VA have done really cleverly over the last little while is dramatically improve their product without substantially increasing their costs. What you describe actually sounds pretty ideal to me too but i also want them to keep their costs down and their prices reasonable. Whatever they do needs to make them not cost them money - either through direct revenue (paying for movies, services etc) or through increased ticket prices/ sales. There is absolutely no point for them as an airline to spend more money than they will get back somehow. I guess we will see what they end up doing.

 

[LiamR]

Perhaps Virgin America isn't the only Virgin airline looking at this:

Holy Hell! Virgin America to offer wireless IFE from Lufthansa Systems - Runway Girl

Watch video if you get a chance.

Hmmm. Interesting concept. I can see VA implementing something like this for sure. Not only does it reduce cost, but once all the aircraft are fitted out with J, Repainted, new Y Seats. Virgin can basically turn around, switch it on and say "IFE is ready, we have it on every aircraft"

This gives consistency. Who knows, maybe the framework for it is already installed in the new 737s?

 

[Jack Melon]

Hmmm. Interesting concept. I can see VA implementing something like this for sure. Not only does it reduce cost, but once all the aircraft are fitted out with J, Repainted, new Y Seats. Virgin can basically turn around, switch it on and say "IFE is ready, we have it on every aircraft"

This gives consistency. Who knows, maybe the framework for it is already installed in the new 737s?

If you are talking about the wifi sattelite al they already have it on the BSI's.

 

[munitalP]

IFE is an expensive addition to any aircraft and the cost models will be closely looked at by VA and whether or not the ROI is actually worth it.
Based on a little information at hand, I quickly run some numbers to install an IFE system on a typical 737 800 series. Disclaimer - I went the option of using a single power supply rather than individual rectorformers (AC/DC transformers) at each seat row. This option is the cheapest option however, has no redundancy, so if the supply trips, all IFE looses supply - but ~40% cheaper than how the existing systems work.

Also labour cost is way lower than what would be expected - at $150 per hour, this would be typical of ABC electronics company, not typical of airline employed - I think would be closer to $220 per hour, plus, additional people added rather than my simple model of 1-2 people. There would be additional costs of say 15-25% for maintenance related costs such as hanger rent, vehicles etc which are not allowed for...

[TABLE="width: 601"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Labour cost[/TD]
[TD]155[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Length[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]42[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rows[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]IFE screens[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]180[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]7" TFT LCD Touch Scren [/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]W[/TD]
[TD]1800[/TD]
[TD]150[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]VDC[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]775[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]139500[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]mounting frane[/TD]
[TD]38[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]6840[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Allowable Voltage Drop[/TD]
[TD]4%[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Run length[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]m[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Current demand[/TD]
[TD]150[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]System voltage[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]VDC[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Voltage Drop[/TD]
[TD]0.07[/TD]
[TD]mV/A.m[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Reccomended cable size[/TD]
[TD]70[/TD]
[TD]mm2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Costs[/TD]
[TD]IFE[/TD]
[TD]775[/TD]
[TD]139500[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Mounting[/TD]
[TD]55[/TD]
[TD]6840[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Labour to mount[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]83700[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Power[/TD]
[TD]Additional 10kVA DC[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]with 200A output[/TD]
[TD]7500[/TD]
[TD]15000[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]70mm cable XLPE[/TD]
[TD]165[/TD]
[TD]13860[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]VD=0.07/mV/A.m[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]V=12VDC / I=200[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]J Boxes + MCB + Cons[/TD]
[TD]135[/TD]
[TD]8100[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Labour to install[/TD]
[TD]80[/TD]
[TD]12400[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2 ppl 40 hrs[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Testing & Commissioning[/TD]
[TD]80[/TD]
[TD]12400[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2 ppl 40 hrs[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Control[/TD]
[TD]Control ccts & controller[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]15000[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]best guess[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Misc costs[/TD]
[TD]Freight / labour /design etc[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]92040[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Loss of EBIT from AC[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]226800[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]estimated to be 15% over 7 days[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Cost of IFE[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]625640[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Cost recovery over 12 months[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30.60861[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Based on 8 rotations per day[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]by 7 days per week by 365 days[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]per year by 180 PAX per rotation[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]all paying for IFE[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

You can also see that the ROI is based on 100% usage of the IFE, based on 8 rotations per day say MEL/SYD based on all PAX paying $150 per ticket and 180 PAX per rotation, 365 days a year!

Very unlikely scenario IMHO

Even spreading cost out over 5 years at 50% usage still makes for scary numbers - remember too, this is one AC!

 

[pshepvic]

Agreed, but what about everyday families with children just wanting to watch a cartoon or something, im sure a 5 year old cant use a blackberry... or can they?

My 2 1/2 year old god-daughter can use an iPhone - she can unlock it, put music on, and play games!

 

[Mh4k]

I can live without short-haul wifi (though it'd be a nice bonus) but this cannot come soon enough to VA's long haul. I've just landed back in Sydney this morning from LAX, and fly often to AUH with VA... those 13+ hour flights are where the real benefit will come for me.

 

[pauly7]

Couldn't care less about on board
Wifi, just want VA to put in some decent AVOD

 

[777]

A little more info here: Virgin Australia Testing Wi-Fi…But Not For Internet Access? | Gizmodo Australia

Specifically, confirmation that they are looking at WiFi for streaming music and movies. I suspect that they will add in Air to Ground wifi when the infrastructure catches up with it.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

gate to gate,

This is what needs to be addressed for wifi IFE.

As much as I don't often use it (news on morning flights is about it), when I do, I'd want gate to gate.

I find it ridiculous that we can't listen to an iPod gate to gate and I don't for one minute believe it upsets the aircraft navigation on take off and landing.

Next issue is having to cart a device. I'd not wish to view a movie on an iPhone and I've resisted the "need" to cart a laptop/iPad.

Final issue, they still need to retrofit. What's the point of watching movies on your laptop if the battery runs flat after 1/2 hour! Surely they'd have to allow charging ability to every seat if they expect us to provide our own screens.

 

[LiamR]

As much as I don't often use it (news on morning flights is about it), when I do, I'd want gate to gate.

I find it ridiculous that we can't listen to an iPod gate to gate and I don't for one minute believe it upsets the aircraft navigation on take off and landing.

It's not so much going to upset the aircraft navigation, but if you have an iPod in your ears you can't hear the crew's instructions if there is an emergency. The onboard IFE will cut out or sirens will be heard. However with your own iPod you might not hear them, if there was some sort of emergency and they needed to shout directions.

One of those rules that prepares us for the 1 in a million chance of something going wrong.

 

[oz_mark]

I find it ridiculous that we can't listen to an iPod gate to gate and I don't for one minute believe it upsets the aircraft navigation on take off and landing.

It prevents you hearing any crew instructions. You would also not hear the safety demo.

 

[777]

It prevents you hearing any crew instructions. You would also not hear the safety demo.

Perfectly sensible re: hearing. At some point they should allow you to read off an ipad or a kindle though. There is a weight issue with a loose objects but i've seen people reading books that are as big if not bigger.

 

[LiamR]

Perfectly sensible re: hearing. At some point they should allow you to read off an ipad or a kindle though. There is a weight issue with a loose objects but i've seen people reading books that are as big if not bigger.

I agree. Being able to read my iPad/respond to emails would be great. Problem is, where is the line?

Somebody would push for a iPad, a netbook, then a full size laptop.

By keeping everything away you can easily get up in an emergency.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I agree. Being able to read my iPad/respond to emails would be great. Problem is, where is the line?

Somebody would push for a iPad, a netbook, then a full size laptop.

By keeping everything away you can easily get up in an emergency.

I hadn't thought of the "hearing an emerg. message" reason, but surely that and the lappie, netbook or 52" flat screen in the cabin is a reason to forget hand held devices and go with fixed seat back screens? Let's face it, having personal devices for streaming IFE will definitely mean not gate to gate!

 

[LiamR]

I hadn't thought of the "hearing an emerg. message" reason, but surely that and the lappie, netbook or 52" flat screen in the cabin is a reason to forget hand held devices and go with fixed seat back screens? Let's face it, having personal devices for streaming IFE will definitely mean not gate to gate!

On the OOL-SYD runs I'd be lucky to get 30mins of viewing in if it wasn't gate2gate.

With hand held devices that would be even less, because I'd have to stand up and get my laptop from overhead, set up the table. (What if I want to eat and watch... can't put both on the table...)

 

[drewbles]

Of course.. I'm guessing calls will be global roaming rates too.. Just wait for all the people that get caught on it!!

Let's see if they have mobile free areas.. Instead of the old "smoking or non smoking" it'll be mobile or non mobile!

Our service actually does work on the few airlines that have GSM cells on board. And yes, people use it!

It's a case of 'consult your financial advisor, and re-mortgage your premises' prior to making a call (and we effectively make zip on the call; it's expensive wholesale too!).

And, it should stay that way IMHO. I enjoy my peace. The current US based GoGo is not meant to allow VoIP to work, but i've successfully used FaceTime on my iPhone and Mac to have a video call to someone (look at me! I'm on a plane!; but done quietly and discreetly, not loudly and 'look at me'-ish). I can see it being filtered eventually, which is fine. IM is good, a plane full of 'look at me i'm on a plane' in loud voices is not going to be nice, or they can replace smoking/non-smoking with Video Conferencing/non-video conferencing

 

[drewbles]

So the actual Internet is live? So for example you can use FB or google, but couldnt watch a flash movie on news for example?

Most of that type of content is blocked-I have come across reports of technophiles overcoming this using VPN or similar.

Last time I used GoGo on AA nothing was filtered that I tried (which included YouTube, Facebook and various other websites; nothing X rated or the like, and as mentioned above, Facetime on the mac worked A-OK).