Virgin Blue announcements 26/08

[docjames]

It's not about Abu Dhabi as a destination - it's about LHR, MAN, CDG, FRA, MUC, DUB....etc.
EY have suboptimal frequencies and spread of routes to Australia, but between them and us we have a very good network between Australia and AUH and we codeshare on all their beyond flights where the bilaterals permit.

Exactly, and I think this is great for DJ/VAus.

 

[anat0l]

VA didn't really give a lot of time before withdrawing services to JNB and HKT. Their Trans-Pacific routes took quite some time before profit was reportable. Withdrawing from JNB and HKT now just seems cowardly and short-sighted (to put it all very nicely).

Funny that the Virgin group is rubbing up to EY, which is already doing deals with the enemy, QF. Supposedly they are trying to coerce EY to revoke their agreements with QF and deal with the Virgin group (i.e. QF will lose their foothold in the Middle East)? Which lounges to EY premium pax use in SYD T1 - if it's the QF lounges, it'd be a hoot to see someone flying EY First with Velocity FF# as their FQTV/FQTS and fronting up to the QF F Lounge!

In any case, why couldn't the Virgin group take more advantage of their partnership with the other, perhaps more reliable and popular, Middle Eastern carrier, EK?

Even if the purpose of the partnership is to foster better connections to Europe, again, what about EK?


What does excite me is a possibility that VA/DJ or whatever we can call the group of airlines might have a real chance of being invited to join Star Alliance (as alluded to by another article in a complementary topic).

 

[DJ737]

OK so there will be earn & burn between Velocity & Etihad Guest including lounge access priveliges.

So what happens now with the Emirates / V Australia codeshare across the Tasman & the earn & burn on Emirates flights???????

Soon there may be four alliances.

Oneworld, Star Alliance, Skyteam and the Alliance of Non Alligned Airlines. :shock:

Cheers
DJ737

 

[oz_mark]

VA didn't really give a lot of time before withdrawing services to JNB and HKT. Their Trans-Pacific routes took quite some time before profit was reportable. Withdrawing from JNB and HKT now just seems cowardly and short-sighted (to put it all very nicely).

HKT, being a leisure destination, never really seemed a good fit for VA to me. As for JNB, a big twin is probably not the right aircraft for the mission, being ETOPS limited and all. In both cases, they probbaly decided that they would extract more value deploying the aircraft elsewhere.

 

[sr81]

You would have to think that A330 selection fits with the new CEO's stated intention to get more of a business market and hence the fit out, I think, will include a QF like business class.

On the SYD/MEL-PER route some larger, extra capacity can only be a good thing given QF runs wide bodies on quite a few flights transcont.

Interesting times.

 

[crazydave98]

Seriously, I'm excited whenever a carrier gets a new type (for them) into Australia. Cant wait to see the DJ 330 flying in Aus. Can't imagine a fleet of two is particualrly economical unless they are leasing them with crew etc. Wonder if Strategic might be the source of the a/c?

Two is the starting point, not the endgame. Strategic is not the source of the aircraft.

 

[Slats7]

Big changes already from John Borghetti.

 

[NM]

Haven't yet noticed the difference between a standard Y seat on a 737 or a 747.

The major difference for me is that one third of all Y seats on a 737 means two seats to climb over to get to the aisle, which is not an issue for a 1-2 hour flight, but is for a 6-7 hour flight in my opinion. On a 767 or A330 (with most airline's configurations), no Y seats require climbing over 2 seats to get to an aisle. On a 747, one fifth of all Y seats require the double climb.

So for a long flight, I don't want a 3+3 seating configuration.

 

[oz_mark]

The major difference for me is that one third of all Y seats on a 737 means two seats to climb over to get to the aisle, which is not an issue for a 1-2 hour flight, but is for a 6-7 hour flight in my opinion. On a 767 or A330 (with most airline's configurations), no Y seats require climbing over 2 seats to get to an aisle. On a 747, one fifth of all Y seats require the double climb.

So for a long flight, I don't want a 3+3 seating configuration.

....and yet on a 777 people prefer 3-3-3 to 2-5-2.

 

[docjames]

Two is the starting point, not the endgame. Strategic is not the source of the aircraft.

Thanks crazydave98, I presume you're not at liberty to disclose the source of the aircraft. :?:

 

[Fyfie]

Where are the A330s coming from?

- new
- lease from another carrier
- lease from a/c leasing co.

The rumour going around (See Flight Global) was that DJ were looking at leasing A330's off Emirates - these talks may not have come to fruition, but that was the rumour a few months back.

As for cabin re-fits - I'd assume that they might re-do the seat covers in economy and install their own business class.

 

[crazydave98]

VA didn't really give a lot of time before withdrawing services to JNB and HKT. Their Trans-Pacific routes took quite some time before profit was reportable. Withdrawing from JNB and HKT now just seems cowardly and short-sighted (to put it all very nicely).

Since when is throwing good money after bad brave and far-sighted? HKT was never intended as a route for the B773 - too heavy and large an aircraft and config is too premium. The route would however be very suitable for an A330 in a domestic configuration by the way . We would back ourselves in a 3 way race against QF and SA on the Sth African route, but unfortunately they are allowed to co-operate. If we were to become a Star alliance member maybe this situation would change (this is not a hint - just an observation).

Funny that the Virgin group is rubbing up to EY, which is already doing deals with the enemy, QF. Supposedly they are trying to coerce EY to revoke their agreements with QF and deal with the Virgin group (i.e. QF will lose their foothold in the Middle East)?

I wouldn't call it coercion. I would also question who rubbed whom? James Hogan and John Borghetti have known each other for decades. And yes it leaves Qantas without a foothold in one of the fastest growing markets in the world. Ironically we get our code on flights to more cities in Europe and the middle east than Qantas.

Which lounges to EY premium pax use in SYD T1 - if it's the QF lounges, it'd be a hoot to see someone flying EY First with Velocity FF# as their FQTV/FQTS and fronting up to the QF F Lounge!)?

we would like to see that too. Australian lounge access was about all EY got out of the deal with QF. Between EY, VA, VS and DL we will be putting quite a volume of long haul traffic through SYD T1 and other international terminals - enough to justify another lounge maybe?

In any case, why couldn't the Virgin group take more advantage of their partnership with the other, perhaps more reliable and popular, Middle Eastern carrier, EK?

you don't think we tried? Can you name any airline that codes extensively with EK into and beyond its hub?

What does excite me is a possibility that VA/DJ or whatever we can call the group of airlines might have a real chance of being invited to join Star Alliance (as alluded to by another article in a complementary topic).

Maybe, or maybe we figure that a number of choice partnerships is a lot less costly and covers 95% of Australian premium traffic? Joining Star would make things awkward with Delta. The obvious hole in our network is still Asia, where our present partner MH remains unaligned. So don't get too excited - anything is possible but not revealing our alliance strategy yet.

cheers

stillCrazyDave98

 

[crazydave98]

....and yet on a 777 people prefer 3-3-3 to 2-5-2.

and airlines prefer 3-4-3

Boeing has some pretty extensive modelling (called the Whitefish model after the creator's favourite ski resort) which explains why pax prefer the 3-3-3. Essentially it maximises the chance of being next to either an empty seat or an aisle for the most common range of load factors, and the empty seat and aisle are statistically the biggest drivers of comfort.

 

[NM]

....and yet on a 777 people prefer 3-3-3 to 2-5-2.

Not all people

 

[notzac]

we would like to see that too. Australian lounge access was about all EY got out of the deal with QF. Between EY, VA, VS and DL we will be putting quite a volume of long haul traffic through SYD T1 and other international terminals - enough to justify another lounge maybe?

I sincerely hope that that was a hint - DJ/VA not having a lounge product (whether their own or "leased") for all of their flights from international ports is a pretty big hole in the product. Understand that you're not at liberty to be specific, but are there lounge announcements coming soon?

Maybe, or maybe we figure that a number of choice partnerships is a lot less costly and covers 95% of Australian premium traffic? Joining Star would make things awkward with Delta. The obvious hole in our network is still Asia, where our present partner MH remains unaligned. So don't get too excited - anything is possible but not revealing our alliance strategy yet.

I think I've probably said something about this before, but I'd love to see MEL-HKG and MEL-SIN on VA metal, perhaps connecting with the VS flights HKG-LHR and EY flights SIN-AUH-somewhere.

 

[whoistheg]

Not good news about losing the MEL - HKT route.

Its the only direct flight from MEL - HKT . Every other airline you have
to transfer

I have flown it 4 times this year and every time the 777's have been very full.

Given they time it so the DJ flights arrive from NZ with pax as well as routing the
Syd people down on a Thursday its always busy.

Ahh well back to SQ for all my flights to HKT. No way im going MEL - PER - HKT on
737's. I guess it means cheap grog and ciggies from Changi on the way home again

 

[haydensydney]

Great News!!

I am excited by this annoucment - it makes perfect sense to align with EY and the feeder opportunities are fantastic. I am all for it!

The A330 announcement is also very exciting.

I can't wait to hear about the new J product

 

[MrGreg]

Also noticed they are getting rid of their E-170s. I'd still love to see DJ Group increase its long haul destinations. It's lacking, but I spose these things take a fair amount of time.


.....and the vba share price is up 10%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_E-Jets

 

[docjames]

I have flown it 4 times this year and every time the 777's have been very full.

Full does not always mean profitable. Always factor in the price to get the seats filled.

. So don't get too excited - anything is possible but not revealing our alliance strategy yet.

My bolding....

Reading too much into it, I like the use of "yet".

Also noticed they are getting rid of their E-170s.

My reading is only a few embraers going (? shifting to new lease arrangements?)



I'm really excited for DJ and can imagine how much work has gone on behind the scenes to make the changes happen. I really hope they do well. The tie-up with Etihad is excellent for them.

 

[777]

Interesting FAQ over at the Etihad web site. Here are some choice bits:

How is this different from other codeshare relationships?
There are three key things that immediately make it more than just a codeshare agreement:
1) Fully reciprocal frequent flyer and lounge access benefits
2) More extensive codeshare arrangements which will, over time, extend across a vast array of destination on our networks
3) V Australia will fly its own aircraft into Abu Dhabi – more than halfway to Europe – complementing Etihad’s own Australia services

I note the use of Fully reciprocal lounge access benefits.

The only immediate change is an increase in lounge access and baggage entitlements for both Etihad Guest and Velocity members. Velocity Gold members travelling on any Etihad services are entitled to the same lounge access that applies to Etihad customers. Etihad Guest Gold members travelling on Virgin Blue, V Australia or Pacific Blue are entitled to lounge access on routes where there is a lounge offering. Those top tier flyers are also entitled to increased baggage in line with their own frequent flyer program’s baggage entitlements.

All from: Etihad and Virgin Blue Group announce major new partnership

What's important about these two statements is that while Etihad has an extensive route network it's owned and operated lounge network is very thin outside its home base. These statements seems to suggest that Velocity Gold's can access it as well their own FFs.

Dave i'd love a clarification of that. Seems to be a big key to working out what value this is. And yes, some DJ/VA lounges in SYD, MEL, BNE international would be very welcome.