Virgin Flight Refund

[travel_bug]

i'll report back on any progress i may or may not make.

Ditto here, it'll be good for others to have a record of if/how people got their chargebacks and what the different variables were.

 

[chasingdreams]

I had roughly $2K worth of Virgin Travel Vouchers issued to me for non-refundable flights. I disputed the transactions with my CC provider, Amex. After providing them with all the appropriate language from Virgin's and the ACCC's website and highlighting my rights as a Consumer, the Disputes Team eventually approved a full refund/charge-back and the money is back in my account. I had to persevere though, demanding they reopen the charge back case after initially denying my claim.

I dare say the outcome depends on the CC provider and perhaps even the individual that reviews your case so it's certainly not a blanket done deal across all transactions. But if anyone is interested, I am happy to provide the language I used to twist Amex's arm into agreeing with me for a full refund on a non-refundable fare (per the VA Conditions of Carriage).

FWIW, the Virgin Travel Bank value is still available to me (I wont be using it).

Hey there,

I booked flights for Bali on the 27th January.
The flights were booked for the 17th May - 2nd June.

I got an email from Virgin the other day stating my flight had been affected by travel restrictions (obviously) and there’s an option for the travel credit.

I paid for the flights on my AMEX card and do not wish to take the travel credit due to the current situation with Virgin.

What steps should I take in order to obtain a refund? What do I need to ask/say to Virgin, and failing that, how did you word your correspondence with AMEX to obtain a charge back?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[SydneySwan]

I booked Sydney to Haneda which transited via Brisbane for mid-May returning end May. A few weeks ago the Haneda flights dropped off. Last week VA changed the SYD - BNE flights to match their new timetable (different flights and times but same dates). Unfortunately I booked through Flight Centre who won't even talk to me because I am not within 5 days of departure date. I was expecting VA to cancel the rest of the itinerary yet VA seem to be treating the booking as a regular SYD - BNE return now which I don't want.

Anyone have a similar experience? What happened? Did VA eventually cancel the booking or are they trying to get me to cancel the booking? And yes I know VA are in administration at the moment.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Well I guess a key question now is (and others may know this from other companies that have gone into administration / liquidation) if a company is in Virgin's position does not supply a service/goods are chargebacks then successful?


This is different from companies not being able to fly due to Government direction.

 

[Gold Member]

Apologies if this is a bit forward, but any chance you could share the general gist of the wording that you used for the chargeback? I’m currently drafting my visa chargeback request (via ANZ).

What steps should I take in order to obtain a refund? What do I need to ask/say to Virgin, and failing that, how did you word your correspondence with AMEX to obtain a charge back?

Before you raise a charge back with your CC provider, you should have email correspondence with VA that includes:

- VA cancelling/moving your flight (rendered unsuitable to you) and that they are offering a travel voucher in lieu of a refund​

- Your reply which is a refusal to accept anything but a full refund back to original form of payment (per ACL) - see attachment​

- VA's subsequent reply of travel voucher only​

If you don't have all of this information documented, it's not the end of the world but use whatever interaction you have to support your case.

You should then raise a charge back with your CC provider. Once the agent has opened the case, reference the case number(s) in your email you send to the CC provider. Include the email correspondence referred to above. For Amex, the Disputes Team are at [email protected] and [email protected]

WRT to language, everyone's circumstances are different so there's no one size fits all. But if it helps give you some ideas, I've attached something that may be useful to include wholly or dissect according to your needs. There are some closing comments at the end which you may or may not want to include depending on how you see things.

 

[travel_bug]

Before you raise a charge back with your CC provider, you should have email correspondence with VA that includes:

- VA cancelling/moving your flight (rendered unsuitable to you) and that they are offering a travel voucher in lieu of a refund​

- Your reply which is a refusal to accept anything but a full refund back to original form of payment (per ACL) - see attachment​

- VA's subsequent reply of travel voucher only​

You should then raise a charge back with your CC provider. Once the agent has opened the case, reference the case number(s) in your email you send to the CC provider. Include the email correspondence referred to above. For Amex, the Disputes Team are at [email protected] and [email protected]

WRT to language, everyone's circumstances are different so there's no one size fits all. But if it helps give you some ideas, I've attached something that may be useful to include wholly or dissect according to your needs. There are some closing comments at the end which you may or may not want to include depending on how you see things.

That is a sensational document, thank you very much!

 

[Jurahn]

Well, the refund from the Freedom fare (less the $80 fee) has hit my credit card with a transaction date of 10 April, but no sign yet of the Business fare refund - just hoping with the way VA is going that it has actually been put through and is in the process of making it's way back to my Amex!

The refund from the Business fare appeared on my Amex on Monday - the day before VA went into voluntary administration. Whew!

 

[travel_bug]

I posted this in another thread but thought it may be of interest to others; The Guardian posted the following today regarding the ACCC stating that Australian businesses should not be going back on their original refund policies. Though the ACCC doesn’t mention any specific travel provider, and the article only mentioned TopDeck as the journo has previously written on them, it does seem like an interesting response considering that VA was hiding behind the ACCC’s vague earlier statement of “your consumer rights may be affected in this period”.


Australian travel companies must honour refund policies, consumer watchdog says

 

[andye]

I'm interested in people's thoughts on my conundrum.

Had originally planned to go to a (recently cancelled conference) in Perth in September. Then extend the trip to Ningaloo the subsequent weekend (using 2x PER-LEA-PER QF classic awards)

For SYD-PER and PER-SYD, I have separate Freedom fares seated in J (with comp WP upgrades) booked via Amex Travel for $600 each way

Mrs andye was due to join me toward the end of the conference to go to the reef. She has a PER-SYD Freedom (also comp upgraded to J) bought via Amex Travel for $530 one way using a $400 travel credit. I hadn't bought an outbound as unsure how long she could have on leave

Assuming interstate travel was possible in September, we'd still like to go to the Reef (the SYD-PER-SYD would no longer be tax deductible). If VA still operating I would bring forward the SYD-PER

Should I
(a) cancel all flights now and get money in the bank (likely minus the $400 travel credit and $165 in cancellation fees). Would still need to buy replacement SYD-PER-SYD flights (though these would probably either be Y or award J)
(b) take the risk that VA still running these flights and hold on. If they are running, only the outbound change fee. If VA truly collapses and no refund, I could tax deduct my own unflown flights, so there would be a loss of ~$1130 (+new QF flights)
(c) cancel my flights only, losing $110 in cancellation fee and only cancel mrs andye's if I can get amex to refund/extend the travel credit

[writing it down is helping]

 

[Melburnian1]

The refund from the Business fare appeared on my Amex on Monday - the day before VA went into voluntary administration. Whew!

To use that elderly expression, you need to buy a ticket in Tatts.

 

[daft009]

had a chat with amex today about chargbacks

I have $$ domestic tickets booked for Sept & Oct 2020, back from Feb when Amex ran a virgin promo for $40 cashback.
he said to give it a few more weeks and see what happens, if not positive then apply for a chargeback. I have a full 12 months from date of transaction to lodge it.

 

[Hillbilly64]

Hi all. Quick question. With virgin in administration do you think it is "safer" to book flights with my travel credit instead of just having the credit sitting there. (Looking to book bne-per-bne on va at Xmas...so flight are bookable)

I assume the travel credit has a high likelihood of vanishing ...

 

[AIRwin]

With virgin in administration do you think it is "safer" to book flights with my travel credit instead of just having the credit sitting there.

Better to use the credit since you already have it instead of making a fresh payment...

 

[travel_bug]

Hi all. Quick question. With virgin in administration do you think it is "safer" to book flights with my travel credit instead of just having the credit sitting there. (Looking to book bne-per-bne on va at Xmas...so flight are bookable)

I assume the travel credit has a high likelihood of vanishing ...

That's a really interesting question, particularly as VA could very well continue to exist with a new owner.
It does seem logical that if VA is sold as a going concern, gets a new owner and continues to operate, that existing bookings could be honoured if they fit within any revised flight schedule.

As much as I've imagined VA Mk II very easily clearing travel banks, I think that if the first steps of any new owner included clearing all existing (and paid for) bookings, it'd put them on a very poor front foot with the ACCC, particularly as there would be so few. I mean, given that you generally can only purchase flights 12 months in advance, COVID has been affecting flights and allowing cancellations since Feb, and VA's troubles would have had very few purchasing new tickets since March, it could be worth a try to book something in the future, particularly for December.

I guess you've got nothing to lose from what you've proposed, if you lose the booking then you're in the same position as you're in right now as travel banks would have been in the same boat in terms of getting cleared, and if they keep the booking then you get a trip on VA Mk II for a flight you would have booked anyway.

 

[hydrabyss]

That's a really interesting question, particularly as VA could very well continue to exist with a new owner.
It does seem logical that if VA is sold as a going concern, gets a new owner and continues to operate, that existing bookings could be honoured if they fit within any revised flight schedule.

As much as I've imagined VA Mk II very easily clearing travel banks, I think that if the first steps of any new owner included clearing all existing (and paid for) bookings, it'd put them on a very poor front foot with the ACCC, particularly as there would be so few. I mean, given that you generally can only purchase flights 12 months in advance, COVID has been affecting flights and allowing cancellations since Feb, and VA's troubles would have had very few purchasing new tickets since March, it could be worth a try to book something in the future, particularly for December.

I guess you've got nothing to lose from what you've proposed, if you lose the booking then you're in the same position as you're in right now as travel banks would have been in the same boat in terms of getting cleared, and if they keep the booking then you get a trip on VA Mk II for a flight you would have booked anyway.

I would also look at what pricing might be before and after a new buyer. I particularly doubt prices would drop and if extra seat spacing is required still prices would have to increase.

 

[bigbadbyrnes]

had a chat with amex today about chargbacks

I have $$ domestic tickets booked for Sept & Oct 2020, back from Feb when Amex ran a virgin promo for $40 cashback.
he said to give it a few more weeks and see what happens, if not positive then apply for a chargeback. I have a full 12 months from date of transaction to lodge it.

Useful to read. Chargebacks can still be sort even if the entity is in Voluntary Administration? I imagine a lot of people will be in this position. I have a BNE-LAX-LAS return in November booked in February, I can't see that flight happening but also cant' see when they will officially cancel it, and can't ever see the money coming back which I'm a bit desperate for right now.

 

[jakeseven7]

Hi all. Quick question. With virgin in administration do you think it is "safer" to book flights with my travel credit instead of just having the credit sitting there. (Looking to book bne-per-bne on va at Xmas...so flight are bookable)

I assume the travel credit has a high likelihood of vanishing ...

Gosh yes don't use any of your own money on VA at the moment!

 

[travel_bug]

Well it seems like I may be cancelling my chargeback and buying a lotto ticket next week; just got an email from my CC travel insurance that the claims consultant is recommending my claim for settlement for my domestic VA flights that were majorly re-routed by VA onto different dates with a 20h stopover. Fingers crossed whoever reviews it agrees with the consultant. I guess I'll find out in 3 business days.

Additional bonus could be a nil excess if I'm reading the policy right as it's under the "Interstate Inconvenience" portion of the insurance as opposed to international.

 

[slaussie]

I had two big amounts invested in Virgin Australia flights, which the airline cancelled. No alternative flights were offered in either of the cases even though it is in their T&Cs of carriage that in the event of disruptions they will offer a substitute flights (or flights), or any other suitable means of transport (which can also include another airline) to get passengers to the destination within a reasonable time of the originally booked flights. Getting VA to acknowledge wrongdoing was a pathetic display of arguments by someone in financial desperation and the only thing that could be concluded from dealing with them that by the time they entered administration, they resorted to stealing money from people in order secure own survival. Unethical corporate citizen conduct if I have ever seen one! The alternative would have been simple, which is to acknowledge they owe people money but couldn't afford to pay it back at that time, then enter into a repayment agreement or for those who were motivated by compensation, an agreement to keep the money (in the form of travel credits) but to give back something, eg frequent flyer points or nominal bonus value of say 10% to the travel credit. Airlines around the would were doing this exactly so it didn't have to be even invented but simply copied form other airlines. Getting VA to refund unfulfilled contracts was not yielding any results so I triggered two chargebacks with my credit card to recover two unfulfilled travel bookings. Each took about 6 months to complete because as part of the process VA had the right to respond to my claims, which they did with most pathetic arguments and desperate falsehoods in one last attempt to keep the stolen money from me. But the luck will have it that as part of this process, the culprit was not the arbitrator as well and the verdict went to the only right outcome, which is to return the money in full to the rightful owner for not having received the service purchased. This was a huge eye opener for me and a learning lesson where and how to spend my money in the future. Never will I pay for travel by any other means but a credit card, and never again will I spent money on VA, despite being a huge fan and the supporter of the airline formerly as is evident from my long term Platinum status. But like in all relationships, you only know the true state of relationship when something within it goes wrong. Rex and Qantas, here I come!

 

[Bagpuss]

I had two big amounts invested in Virgin Australia flights, which the airline cancelled. No alternative flights were offered in either of the cases even though it is in their T&Cs of carriage that in the event of disruptions they will offer a substitute flights (or flights), or any other suitable means of transport (which can also include another airline) to get passengers to the destination within a reasonable time of the originally booked flights. Getting VA to acknowledge wrongdoing was a pathetic display of arguments by someone in financial desperation and the only thing that could be concluded from dealing with them that by the time they entered administration, they resorted to stealing money from people in order secure own survival. Unethical corporate citizen conduct if I have ever seen one! The alternative would have been simple, which is to acknowledge they owe people money but couldn't afford to pay it back at that time, then enter into a repayment agreement or for those who were motivated by compensation, an agreement to keep the money (in the form of travel credits) but to give back something, eg frequent flyer points or nominal bonus value of say 10% to the travel credit. Airlines around the would were doing this exactly so it didn't have to eve invented but simply copied form other airlines. Getting VA to refund unfulfilled contracts was not yielding any results so I triggered two chargebacks with my credit card to recover two unfulfilled travel bookings. Each took about 6 months to complete because as part of the process VA had the right to respond to my claims, which they did with most pathetic arguments and desperate falsehoods in one last attempt to keep the stolen money from me. But the luck will have it that as part of this process, the culprit was not the arbitrator as well and the verdict went to the only right outcome, which is to return the money in full to the rightful owner for not having received the service purchased. This was a huge eye opener for me and a learning lesson where and how to spend my money in the future. Never will I pay for travel by any other means but a credit card, and bever again will I spent money on VA, despite being a huge fan and the supporter of the airline formerly as is evident from my long term Platinum status. But like in all relationships, you only know the true state of relationship when something within it goes wrong. Rex and Qantas, here I come!

Lots to be said here, though to keep it short:
Once Virgin Australia entered Voluntary Administration you were a unsecured creditor. To the letter of the law you would (eventually) receive 7 cents - 12 cents (ish .. still to be determined) per dollar. With the recapatilisation of the company full value was retained as a future flight credit. Despite some understandable cricisim, this actually was a massive win for customer and a good deed by the new owners.
(This essentally was better than offering the 7 cents - 12 cents per dollar PLUS a 10% credit because that's then .07 cents and .12 cents post conversions)
Chargeback's are problematic, a supplier reglardless of who will always fight against them.
Qantas is in an interesting position becuase it is holding onto customer's money whilst offering credits etc. Noting that they could hold onto this credit for a very long time PLUS your original airfare of perhaps $500 (with $50 credit) could end up costing $1,000 once used so you are negative $450.
I also say Qantas is in an interesting position becuase they have their own hotel supplier arm (as one example) in which they are cancelling the hotel bookings (so they dont pay the hotel) and then hold onto the credit in these cases too whilst again offering credits etc. It's purely holding onto cash where possible,
Rex, lets see. They need $150 million funding for growth and have only pulled down $50 million from the funding. If borders keep opening and shutting they could be in a tailspin very quickly as they are paying for aircraft, staff etc. already. Aircraft make no money whilst on the ground.

I'll add that Virgin remains interesting and the way it is recapatilised. Being foreign owned would normally mean that all funding would be upfront to assist with regulatory hurdles whereas this seems to be on a bit of a drip feed. This could mean a number of things which vary from the fact they have controlled their cash burn to massive precaution.

Good luck, there's a lot to navigate in the years to come with aviation.