Virgin flights to Bali require technical stop in Darwin

[Bagpuss]

our family also booked this flight and I am thinking to complaint to ACCC about the misleading consumers. although I have a VA platinum for more than 6 years, this is not right, I've just found out..

For safely getting your family to the destination with all your luggage?

 

[jakeseven7]

our family also booked this flight and I am thinking to complaint to ACCC about the misleading consumers. although I have a VA platinum for more than 6 years, this is not right, I've just found out..

Did they not indicate this was not a direct flight when you booked?

 

[henrus]

our family also booked this flight and I am thinking to complaint to ACCC about the misleading consumers. although I have a VA platinum for more than 6 years, this is not right, I've just found out..

You're going to get no where so don't waste the ACCC's time!

VA's conditions of carriage (which you agreed to when purchasing a ticket) allow them to reschedule flights or even take you to a different destination on your ticket.

Conditions of Carriage | Virgin Australia

These Conditions set out the basis on which we provide our services to you and, among other things, seek to make you aware of the unpredictable nature of air travel and the rights you have as a consumer. We recommend you read these Conditions carefully.

www.virginaustralia.com

Section 12.2 :

12.2 There may be health and safety, security, weather, operational (for example, airport closures or low fuel due to airport congestion), mechanical or other reasons that may mean it is necessary or we reasonably believe it is necessary for your flight to land at a destination other than that specified in the Booking. If this occurs, we will make all reasonable endeavours to take you to the specified destination but subject to applicable Laws including the Australian Consumer Law, we do not have any obligation to you in relation to the time this will take, nor the means of transport that will be used.

AviatorInsight (a Virgin pilot on this fourm) has already mentioned that the stop is needed due to COVID restrictions in Indonesia (airports closed to international arrivals) and runway works on the possible diversion airports.

Another major point is that Virgin Australia's website always lists flights as Direct. There is a major difference between direct and non stop and these flights even with the stop in Darwin are still direct flights as they retain the same flight number and aircraft.

The Real Difference Between Direct and Non-Stop Flights

While you may have thought the two words meant the same thing, there's an important difference between “direct” and “non-stop” flights.

www.rd.com

 

[Mattg]

Did they not indicate this was not a direct flight when you booked?

You're going to get no where so don't waste the ACCC's time!

VA's conditions of carriage (which you agreed to when purchasing a ticket) allow them to reschedule flights or even take you to a different destination on your ticket.

Conditions of Carriage | Virgin Australia

These Conditions set out the basis on which we provide our services to you and, among other things, seek to make you aware of the unpredictable nature of air travel and the rights you have as a consumer. We recommend you read these Conditions carefully.

www.virginaustralia.com

Section 12.2 :


AviatorInsight (a Virgin pilot on this fourm) has already mentioned that the stop is needed due to COVID restrictions in Indonesia (airports closed to international arrivals) and runway works on the possible diversion airports.

Another major point is that Virgin Australia's website always lists flights as Direct. There is a major difference between direct and non stop and these flights even with the stop in Darwin are still direct flights as they retain the same flight number and aircraft.

The Real Difference Between Direct and Non-Stop Flights

While you may have thought the two words meant the same thing, there's an important difference between “direct” and “non-stop” flights.

www.rd.com

@henrus I agree with everything you've said, but @bjin1109 does have a point in that Virgin did not advertise that the flight would stop in Darwin at the time of booking. The DRW stop and schedule change was only added the day that the first SYD-DPS flight was due to depart (last Wednesday) and this was not advised before this.

I don't think the ACCC has any role to play here, though. If you're unhappy, you could try asking Virgin for a refund and booking on another airline, but the conditions of carriage do give VA the right to do this and they aren't adding the stop for no reason.

 

[Ade]

Given that the stop in DRW is a tech stop, no change in flight number and hence no extra status credits?

 

[henrus]

Given that the stop in DRW is a tech stop, no change in flight number and hence no extra status credits?

Nope, the flight will post as BNE/SYD/MEL to DPS.

 

[Ade]

Nope, the flight will post as BNE/SYD/MEL to DPS.

Then there is not even the benefit of getting extra SC ... #TooBadTooSad

 

[henrus]

but @bjin1109 does have a point in that Virgin did not advertise that the flight would stop in Darwin at the time of booking. The DRW stop and schedule change was only added the day that the first SYD-DPS flight was due to depart (last Wednesday) and this was not advised before this.

One has to wonder how long VA have known this for but I doubt it'd be a long time. According to AviatorInsight, VA has two alternatives in the region Lombok and Surabaya.

Lombok (LOP) - Lombok airport looks to be only handling one international flight per day (a late morning to KUL) plus last domestic flight is at about 8pm. Lombok was scheduled to have more international flights including Scoot but this doesn't seem to have occurred by the 17 June time frame initially planned.

Surabaya (SUB) - The NOTAM's for the airport suggest there have been runway restrictions since at least 7 June. In addition there was an incident late month were an aircraft "sunk" into the runway:

INCIDENT: Collapsed Runway “Traps” Taxiing Aircraft! - Mentour Pilot

The flight crew of a Batik Air A320 had to ask for assistance when their aircraft began to sink into a section of runway that... collapsed!

mentourpilot.com

The thing I'm really curious about is how QF is able to operate SYD-DPS non stop with their 737's and according to the seatmap there isn't any blocking like previous flights pre covid.

 

[twinaisle]

One has to wonder how long VA have known this for but I doubt it'd be a long time. According to AviatorInsight, VA has two alternatives in the region Lombok and Surabaya.

Lombok (LOP) - Lombok airport looks to be only handling one international flight per day (a late morning to KUL) plus last domestic flight is at about 8pm. Lombok was scheduled to have more international flights including Scoot but this doesn't seem to have occurred by the 17 June time frame initially planned.

Surabaya (SUB) - The NOTAM's for the airport suggest there have been runway restrictions since at least 7 June. In addition there was an incident late month were an aircraft "sunk" into the runway:

INCIDENT: Collapsed Runway “Traps” Taxiing Aircraft! - Mentour Pilot

The flight crew of a Batik Air A320 had to ask for assistance when their aircraft began to sink into a section of runway that... collapsed!

mentourpilot.com

The thing I'm really curious about is how QF is able to operate SYD-DPS non stop with their 737's and according to the seatmap there isn't any blocking like previous flights pre covid.

Qantas cap their pax load at ~144 on the 737 hence why it can make the non stop. QF can also offload pax needed onto JQ.

VA use to cap it around that number pre covid but due to high pax loads this time round and not wanting to offload pax (also due to all VA flights are full) they've decided on the stop to refuel.

 

[HS-TQE]

QF has also offloaded bags and/or freight alongside capping/load restricting the number of passengers on their 738s making the Australia-Bali trip.

As stated above, it seems VA did use to do this pre-COVID but it seems (the DRW fuel stop) to be a post-COVID thing due to strong forward bookings.

 

[Scarlett]

I just had a look through the most recent update from the Indonesian Covid task force requirements and there are now ten airports open for international travelling passengers (up from 8 last month).

https://covid19.go.id/storage/app/media/Regulasi/2022/Juni/SALINAN%20INMENDAGRI%20NOMOR%2030%20TAHUN%202022%20TENTANG%20PPKM%20LUAR%20JAWA%20BALI.pdf

(page 15 for those who want to practice their Bahasa Indonesia reading skills!)

The ten airports are:

CGK - Jakarta
SUB - Surabaya - ~300Km north west of DPS
DPS
BTM - Batam - up next to SIN
TNJ - Bintan - also next to SIN
MDC - Manado - top of Sulawesi near the Philippines
LOP - Lombok - next to Bali
KNO - Medan - northern Sumatra
UPG - Makassar - southern Sulawesi and ~600Km north east of DPS.
YIA - Yogyakarta - southern central Java

(plus some extras, but only for scheduled Hajj flights). I’d also note that the update does say for Indonesian citizens, but I’m pretty certain it’s said the same throughout the pandemic and there has been plenty of international traffic, Indonesian and foreigners, through the allowed airports.

It would seem that the DRW stopover for VA should only be short term as they could be planning LOP/WADL and/or SUB/WARR as their alternates. Indeed Air Asia Indonesia is flying daily from LOP to/from KUL now. Also, I transited through SUB today and didn’t see any obvious runway restrictions or work going on.

I’d also disagree with @AviatorInsight that Covid is still running rampant in Indonesia and that is why there are still Indonesian government restrictions: more just the government are being ultra cautious and not relaxing rules. (masks still mandatory everywhere indoors) Covid hasn’t been rampant since February. Indeed, today’s official case numbers in Indonesia are: 1678 people have tested positive for the coronavirus, with five deaths reported. This from a country of over 270 million people. (but of course most are not testing or reporting, but that might be the same for many countries now)

 

[Mattg]

At this stage, all VA flights to Bali (from SYD, MEL and BNE) until Friday are being sold as 1-stop (via Darwin) but the flights from Saturday are still appearing in the GDS as non-stop.

Is this really just a temporary thing that will end on Saturday, or is VA drip-feeding the changes a few days at a time?

The stop in Darwin requires the flights to leave up to an hour earlier, so this kind of information should be given to customers ASAP if their flight will be impacted.

 

[henrus]

I just had a look through the most recent update from the Indonesian Covid task force requirements and there are now ten airports open for international travelling passengers (up from 8 last month).

Some of those airports aren't open 24/7 though which makes it harder for VA who operate late night flights into DPS.

 

[MooTime]

Nice to hear VA have a scheduling issue of sorts, starts to bring them into the beleaguered league of QF with rescheduling pax's flights at late notice.

Now only to fail to arrive with luggage, fail to provide refunds in reasonable time frame, increase their call centre pickups by 20 fold & they'll be in the premium QF category.

1 hour extra on journey with stop off enroute in Darwin, hardly an inconvenience of any proportion of stories being told elsewhere recently.

Saturday I'm off to Darwin, stopping there, no chance me going any further to Bali.
Darwin and NT has so much more than Bali to see, so much more.

 

[AviatorInsight]

I’d also disagree with @AviatorInsight that Covid is still running rampant in Indonesia and that is why there are still Indonesian government restrictions: more just the government are being ultra cautious and not relaxing rules. (masks still mandatory everywhere indoors) Covid hasn’t been rampant since February. Indeed, today’s official case numbers in Indonesia are: 1678 people have tested positive for the coronavirus, with five deaths reported. This from a country of over 270 million people. (but of course most are not testing or reporting, but that might be the same for many countries now)

I don't live in Indonesia so I can only go from what I read. However, if the government is still not relaxing rules (because of Covid) then this still presents a problem. Obviously, they want to contain the spread.

The Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) that is issued to all flight crew and gives details on any constructions/obstacles/hours of operation, etc at the airport.

This is for Lombok (WADL):

LOMBOK INTERNATIONAL/PRAYA (WADL)
TO AVOID THE SPREAD OF COVID-19 HOURS OF SERVICE CHANGED AS FLW :
ATS REPORTING OFFICE (ARO) : 0000-0900
TWR : 0000-0900 (8am - 5pm local)
RMK : EXC FOR HAJJ FLT
FROM 06 110320 TO 06 302359

This is for Surabaya (WARR):

SURABAYA (WARR)
RWY CLSD DUE TO WIP (Works in Progress)
RMK: EXC FOR HAJJ FLIGHT, MEDIVAC HELICOPTER
FROM 06 122204 TO 07 212200
JUN 12 2204-2300, JUN 13-JUL 21 1400-2200 (Times are in UTC)

So what this means is for Lombok there is no tower service at the time of our arrival. For Surabaya, the runway is closed during the period of our arrival due to works in progress.

Just because there are no obvious works doesn't mean it's not going on. Anytime maintenance personnel are within the runway strip, which includes the grass on the edges inside the gable markers (noted as the white triangular prisms), the runway will be closed. In this case it's from 10pm local to 6am local.

Hopefully, things open up soon enough and we can get back to regular programming without these tech stops. They annoy passengers just as much as they annoy the crew.

 

[jakeseven7]

Qantas cap their pax load at ~144 on the 737 hence why it can make the non stop. QF can also offload pax needed onto JQ.

VA use to cap it around that number pre covid but due to high pax loads this time round and not wanting to offload pax (also due to all VA flights are full) they've decided on the stop to refuel.

VA2 don’t make the margin that QF do to allow them to cap it.

Have they put on the website now that they can’t fly direct?

 

[HS-TQE]

VA2 don’t make the margin that QF do to allow them to cap it.

Have they put on the website now that they can’t fly direct?

They do fly 'direct'
The current schedules into next week denotes it's a "1-stop" with DRW being listed as the stop.

 

[Mattg]

They do fly 'direct'
The current schedules into next week denotes it's a "1-stop" with DRW being listed as the stop.

As of now, flights from Saturday 25 June are still listed in the GDS and on the Virgin Australia website as non-stop, with no mention of Darwin.

 

[HS-TQE]

As of now, flights from Saturday 25 June are still listed in the GDS and on the Virgin Australia website as non-stop, with no mention of Darwin.

I swear one of the radar sites had Sat listed with the DRW stop, so I'm assuming VA drip-feds the GDS in this case. Per VA's recent track record on East Coast-DPS flights, assuming this will be updated 48 hours

I'd hope for the holidaymakers sake that VA notify the affected passengers in advance in this case.

VA2 don’t make the margin that QF do to allow them to cap it.

The QF services is basically a glorified 'cashed up' bus for those that have the $$ 'but don't wanna fly Jetstar', so would be interested to see the complaints from those that get bumped from the QF 737s, or the following demands from the 'cashed up' desirables to put them in Jetstar J on a QF Y ticket, even if it's one of the handful of low yielding sale fares.

 

[MooTime]

VA2 don’t make the margin that QF do to allow them to cap it.

Have they put on the website now that they can’t fly direct?

Clearly PE VA2/Bain make their decisions based on financial gain so margin must be more beneficial with full cabin (uncapped) 1 stop Darwin over a capped direct flight.