Virgin mocks Qantas with bill board ad

[PDog]

Hi PDog,
Maximum of 6 would have been paid flights the rest award. I feel like i am penalised for having a Virgin Credit Card that i use to gain points or using the car hire company they ask me to in their marketing, likewise hotels.
I also pay a premium on some other cards to generate points to use for flying and have used these to fly business with VA to the USA. Bottom line is i put my butt on a seat in their planes 29 times, a lot more than Qantas. I have also held gold status previously. The worst rule i have run into is buying an economy ticket and bidding for and buying a cash upgrade to business to then find out that only economy points/status credits apply. I could have bought $500 worth of groceries at Coles and got 5 status credits. It is a mistake to award status credits for non flying activity. That's why FF points have little relevance to flight activity and therefore loyalty.
I believe status credits should be awarded every time you fly and only for flying so there is some loyalty indicator.

Interesting. I just re read the velocity page on status credits & the word loyalty doesn’t appear. Maybe I’ve just accepted the status quo, but don’t feel I’m being penalised for gaining / using our swag of points? I see status as a bunch of arbitrary rules which I’m happy to use/ manipulate for my purposes (gold is my sweet spot!)... not sure loyalty lands in the equation for me?

 

[dajop]

OMG, a humorous billboard, a bit of playful marketing, and death by analysis. Sometimes, life isn't that serious.

BTW, Wantas?

(nb: Those who've been around long enough will get the last point ... "Wantas?" - FlyerTalk Forums )

 

[PDog]

OMG, a humorous billboard, a bit of playful marketing, and death by analysis. Sometimes, life isn't that serious.

BTW, Wantas?

(nb: Those who've been around long enough will get the last point ... "Wantas?" - FlyerTalk Forums )

You’re right, a forum is no place for discussion. What were we thinking??

 

[dajop]

You’re right, a forum is no place for discussion. What were we thinking??

Fair call.

 

[jakeseven7]

Congratulations to VA for calling out QFF. QFF could learn a thing a thing or 2 on how to create apathy. Cant wait for the next Biggest thing ever is happening soon announcent from VFF.

Yup it might well be VFF’s closing down sale ...

 

[turffy]

Interesting. I just re read the velocity page on status credits & the word loyalty doesn’t appear. Maybe I’ve just accepted the status quo, but don’t feel I’m being penalised for gaining / using our swag of points? I see status as a bunch of arbitrary rules which I’m happy to use/ manipulate for my purposes (gold is my sweet spot!)... not sure loyalty lands in the equation for me?

So clearly you are comfortable that there is no real loyalty scheme - 29 flights in a year no interest in recognising my business. I like you are happy to utilize my points, i have lounge access via AMEX so it really isn't too much of a disappointment but it would be nice to have my golf clubs carried for free with silver status. What's your thoughts on the scenario with the economy status points for the business upgrade purchase.
I guess my beef is that to my mind they fail dismally as a loyalty scheme which the marketing gurus are presumably being asked to provide.

 

[PDog]

So clearly you are comfortable that there is no real loyalty scheme - 29 flights in a year no interest in recognising my business. I like you are happy to utilize my points, i have lounge access via AMEX so it really isn't too much of a disappointment but it would be nice to have my golf clubs carried for free with silver status. What's your thoughts on the scenario with the economy status points for the business upgrade purchase.
I guess my beef is that to my mind they fail dismally as a loyalty scheme which the marketing gurus are presumably being asked to provide.

Comfortable isn’t the right word.... maybe pragmatic?
I see the (status) scheme a carrot to keep you coming back, rather than rewarding loyalty. I can’t say I’m ‘loyal’ to Virgin (cause outside of work I do consider my options rather than automatically book with them) but they generally works for me because of the repeat customer benefit of gold. Semantics? Maybe!

I haven’t put any thought into economy status credits for business upgrade purchase other than it’s just another rule. Similar to the three different levels of status credits for economy depending on fare type- the reward is for spend rather than flight count. Assuming the upgraded fare costs less than an outright J ticket, it kinda makes sense that it’s less?

And maybe I’m too cynical but I don’t imagine that is the brief the marketing gurus are working to... rather it’s something like ‘distract them with something shiny so we can get our claws in’!

 

[turffy]

With due respect you are looking at in from the eyes of a person that travels for business that generates paid flights and therefore you are rewarded with gold status. I pay for flights if deductible for business but use points for the majority as they are for leisure. 29 flights status no recognition therefore no loyalty. If the status credits aren't there to try and create loyalty for frequent flyers then pray tell what are they there for?

 

[PDog]

With due respect you are looking at in from the eyes of a person that travels for business that generates paid flights and therefore you are rewarded with gold status. I pay for flights if deductible for business but use points for the majority as they are for leisure. 29 flights status no recognition therefore no loyalty. If the status credits aren't there to try and create loyalty for frequent flyers then pray tell what are they there for?

No, that’s an incorrect assumption. I pay for the bulk of my travel which is leisure (work travel wouldn’t get me to silver let alone gold).

You nailed it in your last sentence, status credits are there to create loyalty (ie drive the type of business an airline wants) not reward loyalty!

 

[turffy]

I feel like we are getting into semantics now. Best to agree to disagree.
Thanks for the chat, always good to share opinions and learn. See you in a lounge some day.
Take care.

 

[odysseus]

With due respect you are looking at in from the eyes of a person that travels for business that generates paid flights and therefore you are rewarded with gold status. I pay for flights if deductible for business but use points for the majority as they are for leisure. 29 flights status no recognition therefore no loyalty. If the status credits aren't there to try and create loyalty for frequent flyers then pray tell what are they there for?

It's a pretty standard convention, not just with airlines, that loyalty rewards don't themselves gain more benefits.

After all, if you're redeeming a reward, it's a given that you're getting the benefit from the place which gained you that benefit. It's not as though you can redeem a reward for Qantas in this case.

The benefit comes from how much business you are giving them, not how many rewards you've claimed.

 

[turffy]

It's a pretty standard convention, not just with airlines, that loyalty rewards don't themselves gain more benefits.

After all, if you're redeeming a reward, it's a given that you're getting the benefit from the place which gained you that benefit. It's not as though you can redeem a reward for Qantas in this case.

The benefit comes from how much business you are giving them, not how many rewards you've claimed.

Hi Odysseus,
Alternatively, if i use a Credit Card and earn points, i buy my flight with my points- that is my currency. Virgin accept my points because they make money out of it (we've all seen the values that the FF businesses are valued at) - am i not a paying customer of Virgin? I can use my AMEX points 8 or 9 airlines including Qantas. As i have said before - i would give all my domestic award business to an airline that treated me as a paying customer which should include status credits.
Turffy

 

[pchammond]

I'm not sure I have seen anyone insisting that using points are the same as cash before, or expecting status points for award flights.

 

[turffy]

I'm not sure I have seen anyone insisting that using points are the same as cash before, or expecting status points for award flights.

Hi
My opinion - that's all. The fact no one else has expressed this opinion previously is not validation that it is wrong nor does the fact it is my opinion mean it's right.
If i buy clothes and use AMEX - AMEX awards me points. Nothing to do with Virgin or Qantas. I can choose to use the points to turn them into a hotel stay or airline redemptions or wine etc. They are effectively a "currency" for me. Virgin or Qantas choose to accept AMEX points to convert to their own points because they make money on the transaction which allows me to use my AMEX generated "currency" to "buy" a flight. Aren't i a legitimate customer of Virgin or Qantas? Therefore why shouldn't i expect status credits? I have chosen to use my "currency" to purchase their flight and therefore if they are trying to run a scheme that recognises good customers who choose to fly frequently with them, which i believe is the point of status credit (i.e. fly often get silver benefits) then i think they should be awarded. I think it is a far more justifiable argument then giving you status credits because your local convenient supermarket is Coles - you don't even have to get on their plane for them.

 

[dajop]

I can choose to use the points to turn them into a hotel stay or airline redemptions or wine etc. They are effectively a "currency" for me. Virgin or Qantas choose to accept AMEX points to convert to their own points because they make money on the transaction which allows me to use my AMEX generated "currency" to "buy" a flight. Aren't i a legitimate customer of Virgin or Qantas? Therefore why shouldn't i expect status credits? I have chosen to use my "currency" to purchase their flight and therefore if they are trying to run a scheme that recognises good customers who choose to fly frequently with them ....

You make a good point here. Many of the major hotel chains now do recognise award stays or award stay nights as contributing to status. I am not really aware of too many airlines that do unless using points in lieu of cash (as opposed to “classic awards”).

 

[TomVexille]

Hi
My opinion - that's all. The fact no one else has expressed this opinion previously is not validation that it is wrong nor does the fact it is my opinion mean it's right.
If i buy clothes and use AMEX - AMEX awards me points. Nothing to do with Virgin or Qantas. I can choose to use the points to turn them into a hotel stay or airline redemptions or wine etc. They are effectively a "currency" for me. Virgin or Qantas choose to accept AMEX points to convert to their own points because they make money on the transaction which allows me to use my AMEX generated "currency" to "buy" a flight. Aren't i a legitimate customer of Virgin or Qantas? Therefore why shouldn't i expect status credits? I have chosen to use my "currency" to purchase their flight and therefore if they are trying to run a scheme that recognises good customers who choose to fly frequently with them, which i believe is the point of status credit (i.e. fly often get silver benefits) then i think they should be awarded. I think it is a far more justifiable argument then giving you status credits because your local convenient supermarket is Coles - you don't even have to get on their plane for them.

Both VA and QF do offer you a way to earn SCs when paying with points. You just need to buy an "Any Seat Award" ie. Pay with Points.

 

[Danger]

It doesn't say does. It says Aldi don't do... Not trying to out-pedant you, but the advertiser's error is in making the verb first person plural when it refers to the subject Aldi which is a singular entity. So you're right, but not for the reason you suggested.

Oh dear. Poor form on my part.

 

[ozfflyer]

qantas classic awards to LAX are still expensive cash wise, cf. Virgin, who seem to have more availability in peak periods as well.

Friends in Jan flew to LAX using VA pts & then flew SFO/NAN using QF ff pts. They had to pay $$$ for their NAN/OZ flights, as at end of school holidays & flights fairly full, ie. no ff seats.