VISA Waiver Program to USA

[Dave Noble]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

Check on the requirements of the countries being visited as to whether they have restrictions on admission. If not, then I wouldn't be worried

Dave

 

[Mal]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

So I would be fine to go on the cruise listed here: P&O Cruises - Cruise Profile with no issues?

I'm not going to say "you won't have any issues". You really need to check with the embassies involved and perhaps P&O and ascertain the situation for yourself.

What I will say is that P&O shouldn't ask for anything more than your passport details, (and looking here, they don't appear to: P&O Cruises - What do I need to prepare for my cruise? ) and that my understanding is that none of the places visited have requirements for criminal convictions disclosure (unless you're applying for long term residency).

 

[N860CR]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

It's possible that you may never actually "enter" the countries visited on the cruise anyway.

I spoke to someone who did such a cruise late last year and they advised that they never went through immigration formalities in any of the countries visited.

Obviously, can't be sure so again best to check.

 

[panda89]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

Just be honest. If asked , tell the truth; lying ( and them realising ) is a simple way to get a long term refusal

Dave

Thanks for all your replies. I really don't have any immediate plans of visiting the US. So I don't think I have to worry about it just now. As far as the comment about lying in the VWP form, when I visited the US in 2005, I remember the question being "have you ever been convicted of any crime". I answered in the negative (honestly I thought, as no conviction had been recorded). There was no intention to lie. The question has now changed to "have you every been arrested and/or convicted".

These regulation change every so often and in a democratic society, I don't think they can penalise retrospectively. If I get a certificate of criminal record from the Police, it will simply say "no disclosable record", which will be case for anyone with no criminal record or spent convictions.

Anyway thanks for your suggestions, but I don't think I will rush to see a lawyer or the Police just yet. I'm not in any hurry to visit that country - not in the current paranoia!

Cheers

 

[harvyk]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

It's possible that you may never actually "enter" the countries visited on the cruise anyway.

I spoke to someone who did such a cruise late last year and they advised that they never went through immigration formalities in any of the countries visited.

Obviously, can't be sure so again best to check.

What you may find is the shipping co have agreements with the various countires, so technically the "immigration" has been done by the shipping co rather than the pax.

I don't know if that's how cruise liners work, but I do know that's how other shipping co's work (or have worked in the past).

 

[NM]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

As far as the comment about lying in the VWP form, when I visited the US in 2005, I remember the question being "have you ever been convicted of any crime". I answered in the negative (honestly I thought, as no conviction had been recorded). There was no intention to lie. The question has now changed to "have you every been arrested and/or convicted".

I think you may need to check your memory. As far as I am aware, the I94W form has not changed that wording since it was first produced. I have completed 30+ I94W forms going back to 1997 (and many more in an earlier passport). The current form shows as being Form I-94W (05-29-91), so cannot see how there was a change since 2005 that did not result in the form identifier being updated.

I would be looking for some firm evidence of such a wording change before relying on "I was never convicted" as a defence strategy. And do not that not having a conviction recorded may not be technically the same as not being convicted.

 

[stevemilo]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

I think you may need to check your memory. As far as I am aware, the I94W form has not changed that wording since it was first produced. I have completed 30+ I94W forms going back to 1997 (and many more in an earlier passport). The current form shows as being Form I-94W (05-29-91), so cannot see how there was a change since 2005 that did not result in the form identifier being updated.

I would be looking for some firm evidence of such a wording change before relying on "I was never convicted" as a defence strategy. And do not that not having a conviction recorded may not be technically the same as not being convicted.

Just because you do not receive a criminal record recorded does not mean you have not been convicted. If you go to court for a crime and plead guilty, you are automatically convicted of the crime and then it is up to the magistrate to decide whether or not the conviction will be "recorded". Therefore, recorded or not recorded, it's still classed as a conviction which means you would have to tick "yes" on the form.

Also, if you read the embassy website, it clearly states that even if you have "no disclosable outcomes" on your police certificate, but have still committed a crime, you MUST apply for a visa and cannot use the VWP.

Therefore, nowadays, it makes no difference when travelling to the USA whether or not the conviction was recorded. The USA class a conviction as a conviction, recorded or not. The 5 year ban still applies.

 

[panda89]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

Also, if you read the embassy website, it clearly states that even if you have "no disclosable outcomes" on your police certificate, but have still committed a crime, you MUST apply for a visa and cannot use the VWP.

Therefore, nowadays, it makes no difference when travelling to the USA whether or not the conviction was recorded. The USA class a conviction as a conviction, recorded or not. The 5 year ban still applies.

The Australian privacy law clearly state that any spent convictions need not be disclosed, except for a very select exceptions, such as applying for a job with the corrective services, Teacher, etc. Does the US homeland security have access to even protected information on Australian citizens?

Also can someone please explain the 5 year ban thing?

Thanks

 

[harvyk]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

Also can someone please explain the 5 year ban thing?

There is an absolute ban on travelling to the US within 5 years of an offence. They will not issue you a visa or an exception.

 

[NewTraveller]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie



Here's the latest regarding my US Visa Approval - it was approved and arrived today in the post - a very pleasant surprise indeed. Only thing is its 12 months only, so what procedure would I have to go through for a 5 year one as I was never able to pay the $30 at the US Consulate, as the waiver of ineligibility had to be processed before my US Visa arrived. Do I have to go through the same "visit sydney for interview" process again for each new visa renewal, and am I still blocked from using the Visa Waiver Programme?

If an interview is required for each new renewal, will I have to go through the same procedure again, or will they just renew it as I have been issued a US Visa in the past?

 

[stevemilo]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

Here's the latest regarding my US Visa Approval - it was approved and arrived today in the post - a very pleasant surprise indeed. Only thing is its 12 months only, so what procedure would I have to go through for a 5 year one as I was never able to pay the $30 at the US Consulate, as the waiver of ineligibility had to be processed before my US Visa arrived. Do I have to go through the same "visit sydney for interview" process again for each new visa renewal, and am I still blocked from using the Visa Waiver Programme?

If an interview is required for each new renewal, will I have to go through the same procedure again, or will they just renew it as I have been issued a US Visa in the past?

Really happy for you that you got your visa approved and yes, unfortunately you will have to go through the same process again
I just have a question for you - when you got your fingerprint check, did they choose "personal" or "visa"?, as I'm a little confused now because when I called up the fingerprint office, they told me that they pick "Visa" for all overseas travel, but when I have previously enquired, they specifically asked me if it was to travel to the U.S.A, so I presume they needed to know so they could pick "Personal"

I'm pretty sure that a personal check will show ALL charges, even if they do not form part of your criminal record and this is what the U.S.A requires when applying for a visa, whereas, other countries just require a fingerprint check based on visa check which will only show up charges that form part of your criminal record (if you have one).

Dunno, maybe the person I spoke to didn't realise and gave me the wrong info.

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

If an interview is required for each new renewal, will I have to go through the same procedure again, or will they just renew it as I have been issued a US Visa in the past?

You are still ineligable for the visa waiver in the future however I believe that if nothing has changed that the renewal process is simpler

Dave

 

[NewTraveller]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

Really happy for you that you got your visa approved and yes, unfortunately you will have to go through the same process again
I just have a question for you - when you got your fingerprint check, did they choose "personal" or "visa"?, as I'm a little confused now because when I called up the fingerprint office, they told me that they pick "Visa" for all overseas travel, but when I have previously enquired, they specifically asked me if it was to travel to the U.S.A, so I presume they needed to know so they could pick "Personal"

I'm pretty sure that a personal check will show ALL charges, even if they do not form part of your criminal record and this is what the U.S.A requires when applying for a visa, whereas, other countries just require a fingerprint check based on visa check which will only show up charges that form part of your criminal record (if you have one).

Dunno, maybe the person I spoke to didn't realise and gave me the wrong info.

In response to your question, the Queensland Police Service recommend the Police Certificate with Fingerprints for US Visa applications. I attended my local police station and advised them the certificate was to apply for a US Visa, so they chose the "Visa" version. Yet, despite this when it arrived it states "No disclosable convictions". This Police certificate is Australia wide - not just state wide.

The QLD Police site says "A 'Name with Fingerprints' Police Certificate - based on a search of the person's name and fingerprints against the criminal history and fingerprint records held by the police services Australia-wide. his is most often sought by persons applying for a visa to work or reside in another country, or for adoption purposes." You can also apply for this certificate care of the Australian Federal Police under a "National Police Check" here: National Police Checks - AFP

Now, despite me personally going to a lot of expense and effort to obtain not just only the Police Ceritificate with Fingerprints, Certificate of Conviction (not recorded), Court Brief, etc NONE of my documents were requested at my US Visa interview or even after my interview - not even before I received my US Visa via the waiver. I had my folder with all these documents present with me and nothing was requested. Now remember, I admitted my "indescretion" on my US Visa application. So, none of my documents were required.

 

[stevemilo]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

In response to your question, the Queensland Police Service recommend the Police Certificate with Fingerprints for US Visa applications. I attended my local police station and advised them the certificate was to apply for a US Visa, so they chose the "Visa" version. Yet, despite this when it arrived it states "No disclosable convictions". This Police certificate is Australia wide - not just state wide.

The QLD Police site says "A 'Name with Fingerprints' Police Certificate - based on a search of the person's name and fingerprints against the criminal history and fingerprint records held by the police services Australia-wide. his is most often sought by persons applying for a visa to work or reside in another country, or for adoption purposes." You can also apply for this certificate care of the Australian Federal Police under a "National Police Check" here: National Police Checks - AFP

Now, despite me personally going to a lot of expense and effort to obtain not just only the Police Ceritificate with Fingerprints, Certificate of Conviction (not recorded), Court Brief, etc NONE of my documents were requested at my US Visa interview or even after my interview - not even before I received my US Visa via the waiver. I had my folder with all these documents present with me and nothing was requested. Now remember, I admitted my "indescretion" on my US Visa application. So, none of my documents were required.

Thanks for letting me know. So I guess they do just tick "visa" no matter what country you are flying to. I could have sworn they tick "personal" for travel to the U.S.A as per another persons post on these forums, but by the sounds of things they don't even want to see any documentation, all they care about is how much time has lapsed since your indiscretion and what is written on the US visa application form.

On the police website it states that if you tick personal use it will show up ALL charges in your state but not interstate charges and must NOT be released to any other parties, so I guess it makes sense why when applying for a visa, they would want "visa" chosen on the application form.

 

[NewTraveller]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

Thanks for letting me know. So I guess they do just tick "visa" no matter what country you are flying to. I could have sworn they tick "personal" for travel to the U.S.A as per another persons post on these forums, but by the sounds of things they don't even want to see any documentation, all they care about is how much time has lapsed since your indiscretion and what is written on the US visa application form.

On the police website it states that if you tick personal use it will show up ALL charges in your state but not interstate charges and must NOT be released to any other parties, so I guess it makes sense why when applying for a visa, they would want "visa" chosen on the application form.

What surprised me is that despite my US Visa application stating my "indescretion" from over 10 years ago, they never asked for anything to verify what occurred, by way of official documents. I could have said anything basically on the application, but nothing was verified with me personally. Therefore even the timeframe of the "indescretion" could have been created (I decided to be honest).

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

That they didn't ask for proof does not mean that they didn't do their own background check before the interview

Dave

 

[serfty]

That they didn't ask for proof does not mean that they didn't do their own background check before the interview

Dave

Of course, having done so they would not have legally received ANY information regarding passed or spent convictions.

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

Of course, having done so they would not have legally received ANY information regarding passed or spent convictions.

If they are unable to get information which they want, then they will not allow passengers to travel on visa waivers so wouldnt be trusting that theory; terrorism seems to be a get out for anything these days

They may well be getting the info that they want given that the alternative would be a much harder process for all those with Australian passports

Dave

 

[TomCruise]

Re: Visa Waiver Programme - Newbie

I really wish people would stop speculating or just posting oppinions regarding this issue.

There is legislation and facts outlining what your rights are, what you need to disclose and if you will require a tourist visa.

Click here for more info: http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...us-visa-question-regarding-court-21114-5.html

 

[serfty]

Interesting Article

I found an interesting article which summarises the situation in Australia as far as passed/spent convictions are treated in a national sense. Some state/territories have their own overriding legislation but this is more so in relation to penalties when parties (such as Government authorities) might breach the legislation.

The article is here: (Living down the past - Spent convictions schemes in Australia -- [1994] PLPR 80; (1994) 1 PLPR 103)

Pertinent summary:

The spent convictions scheme is established by Pt VIIC of the Crimes Act 1914 (Cth). Basically, an individual is not required to disclose a conviction or the related charge if the conviction has been the subject of a pardon, has been quashed, or is ''spent'. A conviction is spent if a pardon was granted for other than wrongful conviction or if it meets all of the following conditions:

1. It is ten years or more since the date of the conviction, or five years since the date of the conviction if the person dealt with was a juvenile.
2. The sentence imposed (not what was actually served) was a fine, bond, community service order or imprisonment for a period of less than 30 months.
3. There have not been any further offences in the ten (or five) year period.
4. An exclusion* does not apply.

*[EDIT: these exclusions are listed in the linked web page and no such exclusion exists for any US government authority in relation for immigration/visa assessment purposes.]

Now as to whether one can answer no on the ESTA/I94W, it is really up to the individual.

As long as the conditions for a spent/passed conviction have been met then there appears to be little chance that US government authorities will know about it (unless you tell them).

As far as answering untruthfully on the ESTA/I94W it is up to the individual's moral compass.