VISA Waiver Program to USA

[Maca44]

His application was declined under Section 212(a)(2)(a)(i)(I) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, and section that relates to his problem states:

(2) CRIMINAL AND RELATED GROUNDS.-

(A) CONVICTION OF CERTAIN CRIMES.-

(i) IN GENERAL.-Except as provided in clause (ii), any alien convicted of, or who admits having committed, or who admits committing acts which constitute the essential elements of-

(I) a crime involving moral turpitude (other than a purely political offense or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime), or (then next section)

It looks like we are going around and around with this one, but the point is he has not been convicted of any offence, has not admitted having committed any acts which constitute etc etc as above, so back to square 1.

 

[Dave Noble]

I think that if he really wants to go to the USA, he will need to see a lawyer and discuss it with him the possibility of appeal, unless there is a lawyer on this forum who is knowledgable about US immigration laws

The fact that he was found guilty of the offence , whether or nor the conviction was recorded, I would think would ( and indeed should imo ) count under the Immigration laws. If it didnt, it would be unfair to those that live in most countries where people who are found guilty of a crime are necessarily convicted

Personally, I would have thought that with the cost of a lawyer, it would just make more sense to just rearrange the holiday to go elsewhere

Dave

 

[Mal]

Does anyone have a scan of the standard entry form for the US under the waiver program?

Never been over and would like to have a read of it.

 

[Maca44]

Does anyone have a scan of the standard entry form for the US under the waiver program?

Never been over and would like to have a read of it.

Mal,
go to http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/vwp/i94_samples.xml and click on each page to enlarge it.

 

[Mal]

Mal,
go to http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/vwp/i94_samples.xml and click on each page to enlarge it.

Ta for that

Now the question pseudo related to this thread. Joe Average arriving in the U.S. Would he have any idea what "Moral Turpitude" was?

Wonder how many people hide their past when arriving.

 

[Guest]

 

[Mal]

d00t!

bet you've been waiting at least a few months to show that pic

Good call though!

 

[JohnK]

Doing a look into Moral Turpitude (from the Handbook of Criminal Evidence by Davis ) it does say ( for Georgia)

It has been held that the following offenses are crimes involving moral turpitude:
• Fraud or false pretenses in obtaining something of value
• Larceny or a misdemeanor theft by taking
• Larceny after trust
• Murder
• Soliciting for prostitutes
• Voluntary manslaughter
• Sale of narcotics or other illegal drugs
• Pattern of failure to file federal tax returns in years in which taxes are due
• Criminal Issuance of a bad check
• Making a false report of a crime

I can't hold on any longer. Sorry guys.

"Murder" followed by "soliciting for prostitutes". :? Now that is chalk and cheese. Reminds me of the days when murder and stealing a loaf of bread were treated the same. :shock:

Is this the full list? There seems to be some other serious crimes missing from it.

 

[robertz]

Doing a look into Moral Turpitude (from the Handbook of Criminal Evidence by Davis ) it does say ( for Georgia)

It has been held that the following offenses are crimes involving moral turpitude:
• Fraud or false pretenses in obtaining something of value
• Larceny or a misdemeanor theft by taking
• Larceny after trust
• Murder
• Soliciting for prostitutes
• Voluntary manslaughter
• Sale of narcotics or other illegal drugs
• Pattern of failure to file federal tax returns in years in which taxes are due
• Criminal Issuance of a bad check
• Making a false report of a crime

I can't hold on any longer. Sorry guys.

"Murder" followed by "soliciting for prostitutes". :? Now that is chalk and cheese. Reminds me of the days when murder and stealing a loaf of bread were treated the same. :shock:

Is this the full list? There seems to be some other serious crimes missing from it.

So it looks like under US Law, if you commit First or Second degree murder, you cannot enter, but if its 3rd degree, your OK...

This is a good news story. "Drunk Teen refused Visa to USA for Folk Lift Joyride"

I do think its more a breakdown of a single US INS person in Sydney not using his brain, than the whole system. But then again.........

Rob

 

[jad01]

I actually don't get the point of it all.
I mean if a person were guilty of any of those offences, surely they'd tick NO and keep their mouth shut and slip in unnoticed.
The US wouldnt have any way of checking Australian records would they?

 

[robertz]

I actually don't get the point of it all.
I mean if a person were guilty of any of those offences, surely they'd tick NO and keep their mouth shut and slip in unnoticed.
The US wouldnt have any way of checking Australian records would they?

Unless they were on a "Watch List", I dont think so...

The only issue would be the time it takes to get to the US from AUS. All passenger manifests have to be submitted before an Intl flight enters US airspace, So theroretically, they would have 15 hours to data match before arriving, but the extent to which they go or the amount of info that is released by the AUS Govt before hand, I dont know.

Rob

 

[markis10]

The US wouldnt have any way of checking Australian records would they?

Dont be so sure about that, a few years ago the US consulate were on the news saying that with the changes to security post 9/11 the border control procedures for checks etc were being total ramped up and that visitors should declare anything as chances are they would find out about it! Since then there have been a few aussies that have had entry denied because of past issues that would have gone unnoticed before, including a few celebs although those cases were mainly due to the visa rules being changed for journos.

 

[serfty]

The US wouldnt have any way of checking Australian records would they?

Dont be so sure about that, a few years ago the US consulate were on the news saying that with the changes to security post 9/11 the border control procedures for checks etc were being total ramped up and that visitors should declare anything as chances are they would find out about it! Since then there have been a few aussies that have had entry denied because of past issues that would have gone unnoticed before, including a few celebs although those cases were mainly due to the visa rules being changed for journos.

It's not relevaent to the Original Topic as the offence was 5 only five years ago but you may like to Google "Passed" or "Spent" convictions (pages from Oz).

If the offence was not of a 'sexual nature' and did not result in a jail term of six months or more (differs between the various state & Federal laws), the conviction becomes "Passed" or "Spent" after 10 years.

Current Legislation does not deal with any request for disclosure that a foreign government might make, except that the Australian government should not pass on information about someone's "spent" conviction(s).

Here's a bit of a summary .

So basically, if you do have a situation like the OP's friend hanging over your head you can wait the ten years if you are really keen to enter the LOTFAP.

 

[serfty]

There is also some good info in this old thread from last year: Fingerprinting and photo when entering USA

(Some other OffT stuff as well. :roll: )

 

[NM]

Now the question pseudo related to this thread. Joe Average arriving in the U.S. Would he have any idea what "Moral Turpitude" was?

I don't know, and don't intend to find out - just in case ....

 

[NM]

... So theroretically, they would have 15 hours to data match before arriving, but the extent to which they go or the amount of info that is released by the AUS Govt before hand, I dont know.

According to the OP, this chap would be arriving from Europe, so less than 15 hours available 8) . If in doubt, arrive from Canada :!: .

 

[Maca44]

... So theroretically, they would have 15 hours to data match before arriving, but the extent to which they go or the amount of info that is released by the AUS Govt before hand, I dont know.

According to the OP, this chap would be arriving from Europe, so less than 15 hours available 8) . If in doubt, arrive from Canada :!: .

I don't know whether you mean bypass America and travel though Canada, or travel into Canada and arrive from Canada into USA, but it still would not matter now because he has been for his interview at the Amercian Consulate in Sydney and had the relevant fingers on each hand scanned so, even if he was to enter from Canada he would have his left and right index fingers scanned and then still be denied entry because he had applied for a visa, been refused, and he would most likely be deported. Again, he is not due to travel on his honeymoon until May so his best bet is to continue with his attempt to have a visa issued, and if unsuccsssful ttravel through Toronto, Vancouver, Hong Kong, Sydney or a similar route. It make me wonder about the many people who have been charged with shoplifting, even as a child etc. Would they be in the same predicament.

 

[NM]

I don't know whether you mean bypass America and travel though Canada, or travel into Canada and arrive from Canada into USA, but it still would not matter now because he has been for his interview at the American Consulate in Sydney and had the relevant fingers on each hand scanned so,

I was only commenting on the noted 15 hour duration they have to run any checks for people arriving trans-Pacific from Australia, and the fact that other entry methods do not provide such a large window for data-matching. Therefore, I posit that the checks undertaken do not in fact take 15 hour5s to complete and can be achieved in a very short period of time as necessary for people entering the USA from places closer to the LOTFAP.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

For the Canada flights they typically have a good hour or more while pax are stuck in US immigration queues to do some checks.

For other flights eg UK/europe, there is also the option they seem to be fond of using of forcing a/c to either return to origin or divert to third country. Fortunately no such option exists for flights from Australia/NZ - must be extremely annoying to both airline and pax when it happens.

 

[NM]

For the Canada flights they typically have a good hour or more while pax are stuck in US immigration queues to do some checks.

And in my experience, it takes at least an hour if crossing by train! And that from USA into Canada!