Want to fly PER-SYD in December but the only reward seats go via another capital city

[Portsoft]

Hi, I want to fly to SYD mid december, In the past I have always seen economy rewards seats PER-SYD especially this far out but today all I see is this other options available via ADL or other capitals
Does Business classic mean business class ?
Any ideas ?

 

[RooFlyer]

Hi, I want to fly to SYD mid december, In the past I have always seen economy rewards seats PER-SYD especially this far out but today all I see is this other options available via ADL or other capitals
Does Business classic mean business class ?
Any ideas ?

Direct flights would be popular/sold out/not available for points, so you are given other options.

'Business Classic Reward' is the better points option - costs less in points than the new system. Yes, usual business class.

I'd grab 'em.

 

[Ade]

Hi, I want to fly to SYD mid december, In the past I have always seen economy rewards seats PER-SYD especially this far out but today all I see is this other options available via ADL or other capitals
Does Business classic mean business class ?
Any ideas ?
View attachment 381285

In addition to what @RooFlyer said, I'd also check if both the legs are on J. Sometimes, one of the legs might be in Y.

 

[Human]

Mid-December is the start of the school holidays. No surprise at all that reward seats are scarce.

 

[Doctore1003]

I've also noticed that Perth-east coast reward seats are being snapped up more quickly than used to be the case

 

[Portsoft]

Direct flights would be popular/sold out/not available for points, so you are given other options.

'Business Classic Reward' is the better points option - costs less in points than the new system. Yes, usual business class.

I'd grab 'em.

I've also noticed that Perth-east coast reward seats are being snapped up more quickly than used to be the case

Thanks , It's only April, not happened before, better to pay for a seat i'm thinking now

 

[UP4014]

Business is the real deal, grab that if you can. As others have said, holiday season will limit what you get.

 

[exceladdict]

I've also noticed that Perth-east coast reward seats are being snapped up more quickly than used to be the case

Completely anecdotal but I feel like I'm often offered indirect flights rather than direct ones as well (and as noted, sometimes only one leg - the shorter in J)

 

[jrfsp]

Completely anecdotal but I feel like I'm often offered indirect flights rather than direct ones as well (and as noted, sometimes only one leg - the shorter in J)

Agree, something strange with more availably being offered on connecting routings. If you were to search DBO(for instance)-SYD-PER i bet better availability would show up.

 

[Gold Member]

What you’re observing most likely has to do with excess demand for the direct route combined with Qantas’ infamous Married Segment Logic forcing less desirable indirect routing. All Airlines do this BTW.

Something to consider, and not without its challenges, is skip lagging. This mode of travel is also referred to as Hidden city ticketing (among other names) and the Airlines hate it because it messes with their revenue optimisation models (aka price gouging). It’s predominantly used for paid tickets, and more so in economy, and in the USA, but the logic still applies to counteract Married Segment Logic to awards as well (If within the same zone and at the same number of points).

So a possible way to get around your problem is to enter PER-MEL in your one-way search and select an option where the first leg is direct to Sydney. Choose a flight combination with the second leg to MEL which has many hours of transit (or better still with an overnight stay) which would permit you to collect your bags in SYD. Sometimes using the multi-city tool with two one ways can also help force the overnight stay. Just make sure to have some plausible case lined up for the check in agent to tag your bags through to SYD (eg. Staying overnight, or meeting with F&Fs and gifting items from checked luggage etc). If travelling with Hand Luggage Only, no problems with the checked bags. Just leave SYD as you normally would and voila.

However, these options may present some challenges:

1) The QF checkin agent may not allow you to collect luggage in SYD, in which case it’s a huge nuisance and problem. But it should be very safe with an overnight transit.
2) If you include your QFF# and do this a few times you may be flagged. To get around this, and if possible, book using partner award points (eg, AA, BA etc) so that QF can’t identify your QFF credentials.
3) The award ticket will include a small bit extra in taxes ($30?) for the final leg that you didn’t take. Consider this a small price to pay for the convenience of the direct leg on award travel.

In summary, this is not for everyone, but some people in the right circumstances can use skip lagging on paid and award tickets to great success. I have done so many times in Australia and abroad.

 

[dajop]

Choose a flight combination with the second leg to MEL which has many hours of transit (or better still with an overnight stay)

....

3) The award ticket will include a small bit extra in taxes ($30?) for the final leg that you didn’t take. Consider this a small price to pay for the convenience of the

Won't an overnight stay cost extra points as then you are adding two one way awards together, as for domestic travel an overnight stay is considered a stopover?

Edit: That aside, PER-SYD-MEL is actually 2479 miles, which puts into Zone 4 which makes it 57,000 pts instead of 41,500 pts. Add in an overnight layover and it makes it 59.900.

 

[SYD]

I've also noticed that Perth-east coast reward seats are being snapped up more quickly than used to be the case

Perhaps also less seats overall with less A330s subbed for 737s?

 

[Gold Member]

....


Won't an overnight stay cost extra points as then you are adding two one way awards together, as for domestic travel an overnight stay is considered a stopover?

Edit: That aside, PER-SYD-MEL is actually 2479 miles, which puts into Zone 4 which makes it 57,000 pts instead of 41,500 pts. Add in an overnight layover and it makes it 59.900.

Using just the two city pairs (PER and MEL), the regular one-way award booking engine will see this as a through ticket, not two one-ways. The OP has included two examples in a screenshot (see first post) confirming this indirect point pricing remains the same whether flown direct or indirect.

The multi-city tool will probably separate them into two awards if you enter different departure dates, but if both legs are entered with the same date it should present the same regular one-way results and points pricing.

Overnight stays will introduce another date to the itinerary, but as long as they're <24 hours you're fine. It's still considered a transit (as opposed to a stopover) and all legs remain on the same award and are not separated.

 

[dajop]

Overnight stays will introduce another date to the itinerary, but as long as they're <24 hours you're fine. It's still considered a transit (as opposed to a stopover) and all legs remain on the same award and are not separated.

What you say is true for itineraries that include international segments, but for domestic itineraries a Stopover is defined in the program T&C:

'Stopover' in relation to:
(a) an Australian domestic Itinerary, means a break of journey at an intermediate point when onward travel does not take place on the same calendar day; and

Also whilst the system will see PER-MEL as a city pair, it will count the mileage flown for the purposes of establishing the zone of the ticket. It doesn't just look at PER-MEL distance. So if you were routing PER-DRW-BNE-MEL it would price according to the zone that 4272 miles is in, not the zone that the 1681mi PER-MEL distance falls under.

 

[Gold Member]

What you say is true for itineraries that include international segments, but for domestic itineraries a Stopover is defined in the program T&C:

Also whilst the system will see PER-MEL as a city pair, it will count the mileage flown for the purposes of establishing the zone of the ticket. It doesn't just look at PER-MEL distance. So if you were routing PER-DRW-BNE-MEL it would price according to the zone that 4272 miles is in, not the zone that the 1681mi PER-MEL distance falls under.

My experience has been with International legs so your assertion is probably very true regarding overnights. I just ran a few sample award searches trying to find a domestic itinerary with an overnight stay but was unsuccessful so I can't confirm or deny, but I'll defer to the QF T&Cs you've quoted. Certainly the likes of AA and BA aren't so onerous and allow all sorts of convoluted routings and timings, but very different award rules etc so not comparing apples with apples there.

When I ran a sample award search to replicate this situation, I'm seeing some contradictory results which is a bit confusing. When I look at the OP's screenshot (PER-SYD), we can see the indirect routing does not increase the price - it's still 41,000 points, and yet when I run the same search for a future date there is indeed a difference. It seems it all depends on the destination. If SYD is chosen, 41,000 points are required, whether direct or indirect via MEL. Whereas if MEL is chosen, the awards are priced at 41,000 for the direct but 57,000 for indirect via SYD. Both are Business Classic Award pricing.

I hear you and agree with the coughulative distance flown but there seem to be some discrepancies. Both itineraries have the same distance flown so it appears as if the award points required is not being applied consistently depending on the destination.

 

[dajop]

I hear you and agree with the coughulative distance flown but there seem to be some discrepancies. Both itineraries have the same distance flown so it appears as if the award points required is not being applied consistently depending on the destination.

Whilst MEL-SYD and SYD-MEL are obviously the same distance ( 439mi) SYD is actually 360mi further from PER than MEL is. It’s this difference that pushes it into the next zone on the award chart which kicks in at 2400 mi. (2479 vs 2120 mi).

What you are suggesting could work, for the same number of points, for a PER-SYD-CBR journey.

 

[Gold Member]

Whilst MEL-SYD and SYD-MEL are obviously the same distance ( 439mi) SYD is actually 360mi further from PER than MEL is. It’s this difference that pushes it into the next zone on the award chart which kicks in at 2400 mi. (2479 vs 2120 mi).

I appreciate there is a higher award band commencing at 2,400 miles in the Simpler & Fairer tables and that coughulative flown distance is applied. But what I don't understand is why:

PER-MEL (flown direct) = 1,681 miles = Zone 3 = 41,500 points
PER-MEL (via SYD) = 2,041+439=2,479 = Zone 4 = 57,000 points (next level award band and priced higher as you'd expect)

PER-SYD (flown direct) = 2,041 miles = Zone 3 = 41,500 points
PER-SYD (via MEL) = 2,041+439 = 2,479 miles = Zone 4 = Next band, but it's still pricing at 41,500 points for Zone 3.

 

[aikman]

PER-MEL-SYD is 1,681+439=2,120

 

[Gold Member]

PER-MEL-SYD is 1,681+439=2,120

<Face palm> got some numbers in the wrong order there. Thanks Dajop and Aikman!

 

[Portsoft]

My experience has been with International legs so your assertion is probably very true regarding overnights. I just ran a few sample award searches trying to find a domestic itinerary with an overnight stay but was unsuccessful so I can't confirm or deny, but I'll defer to the QF T&Cs you've quoted. Certainly the likes of AA and BA aren't so onerous and allow all sorts of convoluted routings and timings, but very different award rules etc so not comparing apples with apples there.

When I ran a sample award search to replicate this situation, I'm seeing some contradictory results which is a bit confusing. When I look at the OP's screenshot (PER-SYD), we can see the indirect routing does not increase the price - it's still 41,000 points, and yet when I run the same search for a future date there is indeed a difference. It seems it all depends on the destination. If SYD is chosen, 41,000 points are required, whether direct or indirect via MEL. Whereas if MEL is chosen, the awards are priced at 41,000 for the direct but 57,000 for indirect via SYD. Both are Business Classic Award pricing.

I hear you and agree with the coughulative distance flown but there seem to be some discrepancies. Both itineraries have the same distance flown so it appears as if the award points required is not being applied consistently depending on the destination.

Thanks to all of you who have offered advice and reasons...