WARNING - QANTAS rip off in offering credit for QFF points on cancellation

[stm1sydney]

That's a lot like the situation where a QF pax is entitled to either a cash refund or a travel credit for cancelling a cancellable fare, but the QF agent only informs the pax that he/she is entitled to a travel credit. Misleading and deceptive conduct in breach of consumer laws, IMHO.

 

[RichardMEL]

What if you try cancelling online (but without proceeding further) as @ChrisMars suggested above?

so I did this. It was not terribly helpful (gee, I'm shocked! lol)

I selected "refund" option (nice to see that back online at least - I know it has been for awhile!)

all it offered is the cash component. Zero mention of the number of points for the CR component of the ticket. All it mentioned is a vague (generic) condition that if it was a CR then the points would be refunded with a fee of 0 points (I presume 0 due to status). However there was no actual mention of the actual points.

obviously I wasn't going further to find out

 

[Vic]

Was it 85,000 points, or 83,000 points? Asking because 2 pax in Business CBR-CNS should be 83,000 points. Wondering if 2,000 were used for some of the tax component of this award, as it is possible to use point to partially or fully pay the tax, at a value of roughly 0.7 cents per points. That makes refund more difficult to process for untrained staff I think.

Not being 83000 points makes me think is was an anyseat award

 

[marchredmr]

Was it 85,000 points, or 83,000 points? Asking because 2 pax in Business CBR-CNS should be 83,000 points. Wondering if 2,000 were used for some of the tax component of this award, as it is possible to use point to partially or fully pay the tax, at a value of roughly 0.7 cents per points. That makes refund more difficult to process for untrained staff I think.

To be honest, ChrisMars, I don't actually remember the specifics of the booking process. When I originally booked the tickets (July 22) it was for flights direct from Canberra to Cairns and return. Then the direct flight was cancelled by QANTAS (Aug 22) and I then had to deal with a consultant to work out alternative routing - which ended up being via Brisbane up and via Sydney return (to accommodate a business class component - only available Cairns to Sydney).
Irrespective of the booking process, once a cancellation had been approved, I am still flabergasted at the automatic (i.e. by system) conversion of points into fare credit.
Update: I received a response, from QANTAS, to my complaint today. It included an apology for the service I received from the reservation agent and an undertaking that they "... will look into the call recordings and take disciplinary actions towards the staff concerned". I have replied that I have no issue whatsoever with the agent as they don't control what they system automatically does.
I suspect I am now flogging a dead horse but I (again as per my original complaint) asked for an explanation as to how the system came to calculate 85,000 points to be the equivalent of around a $260 flight credit.

 

[encryptededdy]

Maybe I'm being too charitable to them but I really do think Hanlon's razor applies here. This is just a classic Qantas IT limitation being unable to deal with a PNR with mixed classic rewards and cash ticket.

 

[justinbrett]

Seems odd they can refund taxes and points from a classic award booking, how is this any different?

 

[marchredmr]

Maybe I'm being too charitable to them but I really do think Hanlon's razor applies here. This is just a classic Qantas IT limitation being unable to deal with a PNR with mixed classic rewards and cash ticket.

Coming from a position of having quite a bit of programming experience, encrypteddy, I don't think Hanlon's razor applies here.
The system was able to calculate a total credit value for my booking, so there's no IT limitation here. It would have been a simple formula:
cash credit + converted points credit = total credit
... and the programmer would have had a business rule which stated how credit for points is calculated, e.g. 1 point = $x.xx credit.
I find it hard to believe that someone acted stupidly in either formulating the business rule or applying it.
So, hopefully, my complaint will lead to a review of the business rule and QANTAS will make the necessary adjustment to redress the huge discrepancy between spend (i.e credit) value and buy value on QFF points.

 

[oz_mark]

If it was a classic reward the dollar would be the amount that QFF pay QF for the ticket. They won't be applying a conversion the way you have stated.

 

[marchredmr]

If it was a classic reward the dollar would be the amount that QFF pay QF for the ticket. They won't be applying a conversion the way you have stated.

Well if that is the case, oz_mark, then it adds weight to my warning ... don't just accept the credit value on refund of points - insist on getting the points recredited, which obviously can happen.

 

[marchredmr]

Just "closing the loop" on this post.
As mentioned above I responded to QANTAS Customer Care response to my original 'complaint' (i.e. they are now 'investigating the agent to see if counselling is required!!) and asked for an answer to my original query (noting that I had no issue whatsoever with the agent) - why there is such a disparity in value of QFF buy (use) and sell (credit voucher).
Not surprisingly I have heard nothing from QF - obviously there is no explanation which can justify what I originally described as a rip off.
THE TAKEAWAY: Never accept a (heavily undervalued) converted flight credit for QFF points. I insisted on speaking to a manager and received a credit of the actual points - a very acceptable outcome.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Just "closing the loop" on this post.
As mentioned above I responded to QANTAS Customer Care response to my original 'complaint' (i.e. they are now 'investigating the agent to see if counselling is required!!) and asked for an answer to my original query (noting that I had no issue whatsoever with the agent) - why there is such a disparity in value of QFF buy (use) and sell (credit voucher).

There has always been that disparity. Don't believe me? Try using your Qantas Points at the rewards store and tell me how much your points are worth! The best use of points are either for classic award bookings or upgrades where the value per point could exceed 8 cents.

Not surprisingly I have heard nothing from QF - obviously there is no explanation which can justify what I originally described as a rip off.
THE TAKEAWAY: Never accept a (heavily undervalued) converted flight credit for QFF points. I insisted on speaking to a manager and received a credit of the actual points - a very acceptable outcome.

The takeaway from this ordeal is next mix points and cash fares. Book one ways if necessary since the difference between a return mixed award and two one ways are exactly the same, but the latter gives you more flexibility.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

If Qantas is going to make it this difficult to cancel a flight and get an acceptable refund/credit, they're effectively creating an incentive not to cancel and instead to fly with COVID. I wonder how other passengers/Qantas crew would feel about that.

That's true although the traveller would have to live with the fact that they may have knowingly infected a cancer patient with a weakened immune system. Should Qantas do more to provide flexibility to travellers who test positive for COVID? Absolutely! But I suspect they are concerned people will abuse the system and in any event people aren't afraid of flying anymore so the need for programs like fly flexible just aren't there.

For those who like me are in a high risk group, the solution is quite obvious: wear a high quality N95 respirator, sit at the front of the plane and board last. Minimize your exposure to COVID and hopefully one of the five doses of COVID vaccine you received will keep the 'rona at bay.

-RooFlyer88

 

[marchredmr]

But I suspect they are concerned people will abuse the system

If QANTAS thinks people will falsely use a positive COVID result to game the system, then they only need ask for proof. I actually had confirmation via a PCR test result SMS which I offered to provide, when I first cancelled my flights. I was advised that it (proof) wasn't necessary as they accepted my word and were happy to cancel my flights and provide a credit.
So the cancellation process (for COVID) was quite 'flexible' even though I didn't have a flexible fare.

The takeaway from this ordeal is next mix points and cash fares.

The issue is that their system could not cope with a cash fare out and a points fare in, to offer a credit on the cash component and refund of the points ... and that's why 'the system' wanted to offer me a converted value credit for my points. Your suggested solution of not mixing the two, even though the system allows a customer to do so, is a way around their system issues based on your experience/knowledge. The average customer would not be aware of the issue and therefore probably act exactly as I did.
My takeaway is for those who are not aware of the pitfall and how, finding themselves in the same disparity situation, they can find a way around it.