"... we'll shortly announce a major investment to improve our Frequent Flyer program"

[jase05]

Well it was QR who moved into the AVIOS route away from their own FFP to join BA and IB and more latterly AY. Ofcourse QF love EK to much to ever show true OneWorld allegiance..

Because IAG own Avios and now QR own 25% of IAG it was only natural that they went that way.
Air Europa will hopefully join the fold soon and I’m predicting that Oman won’t be far behind.
Hopefully QR can exert some influence and keep QF at arms length

 

[RSD]

Well it was QR who moved into the AVIOS route away from their own FFP to join BA and IB and more latterly AY. Ofcourse QF love EK to much to ever show true OneWorld allegiance..

I don't think that we can complain too much about QF loving EK more than some of their OneWorld partners - the EK alliance is pretty good for many of us!

 

[SydneySwan]

This one was super interesting to me. It looks like a complete acknowledgement of two things:

1. Qantas' dealing with disruptions has been abysmal from both an operational perspective, and from customers' financial perspective.
2. While the listed benefits are pretty good, QFF members have been very unhappy with how those benefits have been delivered.

I wonder if this does actually end up being more than just a slide in a corporate presentation.

These 2 issues are listed as if Qantas have only just noticed them and maybe most of us haven't. This is very disingenuous. Under AJ, Qantas always knew what the problems were and what the solutions were but often they just blatantly refused to acknowledge them or if they did fix them.

Qantas could and should guarantee a minimum number of classic rewards seats on every flight in every class just like OneWorld partners BA and Finnair do.

 

[bussyboy]

I don't think that we can complain too much about QF loving EK more than some of their OneWorld partners - the EK alliance is pretty good for many of us!

If you can stomach the carrier charges on J/F rewards, sure!

 

[CaptJCool]

All part of the

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/about-us/our-company/customer-charter.html

 

[am0985]

Selfishly I would prefer Qantas didn't make their website that much more user friendly even though objectively it'd be an easy win for them.

I've found a few redemptions from playing around with the multi city tool and quite a lot of casual fliers I talk to find the booking system hard to navigate especially with points plus pay showing first. Of course they should fix this but forgive me for feeling a little disappointed if they do

One thing that is on our side generally is that QFF is a big earner for Qantas, other airlines FF programs don't occupy quite the same position on the balance sheet. So I think the next enhancements will be net positive, though the next set after that might not be as they try and claw some value back...

 

[am0985]

If you can stomach the carrier charges on J/F rewards, sure!

EK is not great value for J rewards. But given F rewards have exactly the same carrier charges it's still wonderful value for F.

Doing STN - DXB - BNE in F for 237,500 + $1900ish on Sunday. A lot of points and carrier charges but even with this in mind, long haul EK F is still the single best redemption on the Australian points landscape IMHO. 90k Qatar Avios to Europe probably second best...

 

[hb13]

I think it seems almost certain that it will be multi-tiered rewards similar to that of SQ KF, which in essence means a devaluation.

QF FF doesn't release many premium seats as it is, and F is nearly impossible to get. This will mean that premium seats at the current classic rewards rates will become even harder to get, if possible at all, meaning that if one wants premium seats, they'll need to pay the higher rate. The question is, how bad will this devaluation be?

We all know 'improvements' or 'enhancements' are never positive for the customer. I don't see how this will be any different.

Even though Qantas has treated customers like absolute dirt and seemed to be 'enemy No 1' last year, they haven't changed and know that no matter what they do, customers will not be going anywhere.

Until customers vote with their feet, QF will continue to do what they please and focus on profit and literally nothing else.

 

[SYD]

If correct, this seems to kill off the speculation of massive devaluations?

“The airline says its has ruled out increasing the number of points needed for a Classic Flight Reward seat, as well as reducing the number of Classic Flight Reward seats currently available.”

Qantas brings Classic Plus rewards to domestic flights

Six months after its debut on international routes, Classic Plus is coming to domestic flights.

www.executivetraveller.com

But, yes key question is where will these close in reward seats come from? The current pool of upgrade seats? Mind you US carriers have been releasing premium award seats 2 wks out for years.

 

[hb13]

If correct, this seems to kill off the speculation of massive devaluations?

“The airline says its has ruled out increasing the number of points needed for a Classic Flight Reward seat, as well as reducing the number of Classic Flight Reward seats currently available.”

Qantas brings Classic Plus rewards to domestic flights

Six months after its debut on international routes, Classic Plus is coming to domestic flights.

www.executivetraveller.com

But, yes key question is where will these close in reward seats come from? The current pool of upgrade seats? Mind you US carriers have been releasing premium award seats 2 wks out for years.

Well the rates for 'classic awards' system isn't changing, but its very likely that the number of seats available will decrease.

The reason I (and possibly others here) believe there will be a massive devaluation is that the new 'product/tier) will provide more availability at much higher rates, while the current classic awards system will have fewer awards.

Even though QF says they're not reducing the number of Classic Flight Reward seats currently available, I wouldn't believe them for a second.

 

[levelnine]

Even though QF says they're not reducing the number of Classic Flight Reward seats currently available, I wouldn't believe them for a second.

The important points are that:
1. Qantas does not have a fixed number of classic award seats that it releases, so there is no baseline against which to assess whether it is releasing more or fewer classic award seats.
2. Qantas has never claimed that it will keep the same number of classic reward seats on the same routes. It might shift all classic flight award seats to MEL-SYD and remove almost all of them entirely from international routes, especially in premium cabins, effectively devaluing international redemptions.

From the press coverage, I'm going to revise my prediction. It doesn't look like it will be multiple tiers, but instead one higher tier like SQ Advantage awards.

As hb suggests, I think you'll no longer be able to get international premium cabins at classic award levels after this change comes into effect, except for when a flight is looking completely empty and they throw some out a few weeks/months from departure.

I also think this could hurt platinum requests for release of classic award seats. They might make this new higher tier come from the same inventory that is needed to request the release of an award seat.

 

[RichardMEL]

I'm going to put this out there, and won't be a popular thought (and very elite-centric and please forgive me) but I wonder of the implications of these mooted changes on the ability for WP and P1 to get extra inventory released - a perk which has been seriously valuable for many of the top tiers on here over the journey.

The changes will probably be net positive for the majority if QFF members - and that would be a very good thing if so, but I just wonder how this might all work and yet still maintain to the same degree of flexibility for WP and P1 in this regard.

This probably comes across as a very self serving comment though I don't mean it to be just that but that for the give, the take usually has to occur.

Time will tell. Maybe they'll make it better lol

 

[SYD]

Even though QF says they're not reducing the number of Classic Flight Reward seats currently available, I wouldn't believe them for a second.

It’s already a pretty low bar compared with pre Covid…..

 

[SydneySwan]

I'm going to put this out there, and won't be a popular thought (and very elite-centric and please forgive me) but I wonder of the implications of these mooted changes on the ability for WP and P1 to get extra inventory released - a perk which has been seriously valuable for many of the top tiers on here over the journey.

The changes will probably be net positive for the majority if QFF members - and that would be a very good thing if so, but I just wonder how this might all work and yet still maintain to the same degree of flexibility for WP and P1 in this regard.

This probably comes across as a very self serving comment though I don't mean it to be just that but that for the give, the take usually has to occur.

Time will tell. Maybe they'll make it better lol

Perhaps the BA route where elites can request rewards are made available at double the normal points?

 

[RichardMEL]

Perhaps the BA route where elites can request rewards are made available at double the normal points?

Which would be a real devaluation unless there was far more of a guarantee around it.

However, I would suspect all the talk from QF is pointing towards this "new product" being enhanced CR availability at the 2x-3x price(that is my thought as to price only based on other programs), so where does that leave the current setup for WP+?

 

[elanshin]

The important points are that:
1. Qantas does not have a fixed number of classic award seats that it releases, so there is no baseline against which to assess whether it is releasing more or fewer classic award seats.
2. Qantas has never claimed that it will keep the same number of classic reward seats on the same routes. It might shift all classic flight award seats to MEL-SYD and remove almost all of them entirely from international routes, especially in premium cabins, effectively devaluing international redemptions.

From the press coverage, I'm going to revise my prediction. It doesn't look like it will be multiple tiers, but instead one higher tier like SQ Advantage awards.

As hb suggests, I think you'll no longer be able to get international premium cabins at classic award levels after this change comes into effect, except for when a flight is looking completely empty and they throw some out a few weeks/months from departure.

I also think this could hurt platinum requests for release of classic award seats. They might make this new higher tier come from the same inventory that is needed to request the release of an award seat.

Well the rates for 'classic awards' system isn't changing, but its very likely that the number of seats available will decrease.

The reason I (and possibly others here) believe there will be a massive devaluation is that the new 'product/tier) will provide more availability at much higher rates, while the current classic awards system will have fewer awards.

Even though QF says they're not reducing the number of Classic Flight Reward seats currently available, I wouldn't believe them for a second.

I do also believe a nee more expensive CR is the most likely candidate however I also don't believe this upcoming move is when the devaluation happens. It will likely happen in the future, but not this one. QF knows that whilst the media hasn't thrown them under the bus lately, they're still likely willing to. (Just look at how little coverage VA/Bonza gets despite being significantly worse than QF for on time performance in December).

It's also hard for QF to really pull a wool on everyone right now and if they did, it would be immediately called out when discovered.

So no for the time being I don't expect them to reduce any existing CR number of tickets in premium cabins, possibly a few in economy whilst adding a new tier. But give it a year or two once everyone gets used to the new system, thats when you slip in new "enhancements".

 

[RichardMEL]

Oh yes, the other shoe will have to drop at some point.. for sure.

 

[jase05]

so where does that leave the current setup for WP+?

May be something similar to BA where P1’s get upgrade vouchers or similar?
Seems to work ok for them from what I gather. I’m not at that stage yet with BAEC but perhaps later this year I will see for myself

 

[RichardMEL]

May be something similar to BA where P1’s get upgrade vouchers or similar?
Seems to work ok for them from what I gather. I’m not at that stage yet with BAEC but perhaps later this year I will see for myself

That would be nice of course. P1 has been crying out for more tangible defined benefits (which reward seat request is not one) for years, but this kind of idea would not address the possible (my speculation) regarding viability if seat release benefits.

Anyway oerhaps a discussion more for the P1 thread

 

[Seat0B]

Well the rates for 'classic awards' system isn't changing, but its very likely that the number of seats available will decrease.

I tend to worry about the same thing. And even if the number of seats doesn’t chnge, it’s not very attractive to me if they just do a bunch of short notice “points planes” or all the “same number of seats“ they release are for routes like Wagga (WGA) to Gladstone (GLA) nd no offence to either of these places where I have flown for work many times. I just don’t want to use points to do it. The true test for me will be reasonable availability of J seats at convenient times (for me this does not have to be school holidays or European summer) to reasonable destinations. I wait in trepidatious hope!

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