"... we'll shortly announce a major investment to improve our Frequent Flyer program"

[levelnine]

I would have thought they'd be limited, otherwise who would use points plus pay?

To earn points + SCs at full rate, presumably.

I guess it depends if they're making money at CR+ rates or not.

Why would anyone mourn the disappearance of Qantas Classic Rewards? They're terrible. For example, SYD-PER business class:
a) American Airlines 20,000 miles plus USD27 (for the same Qantas seat)
b) Qantas Classic Reward, some massive amount, more than double both points and fees

And now the announcement of some new devalued award at Qantas with an even worse burn-rate? Whyever would they publicise this, it only draws attention to the already-miserable value of Qantas Frequent Flyer points

Because you won't be able to get that AA seat anymore. AA reward seats book into Qantas classic rewards inventory. Once that inventory disappears, your AA sweet spot disappears too.

 

[I love to travel]

To earn points + SCs at full rate, presumably.

I guess it depends if they're making money at CR+ rates or not.

Because you won't be able to get that AA seat anymore. AA reward seats book into Qantas classic rewards inventory. Once that inventory disappears, your AA sweet spot disappears too.

I think something is already happening on the AA side. A few QF CR seats that are available to anyone are not showing up on AA.

 

[Pushka]

I would have thought they'd be limited, otherwise who would use points plus pay?

Because it's going to cost a motza load of points to buy these fares. Surely just a once every two years option for most and not for multiple passengers. Points plus just reduces the price a bit.

 

[mbell1510]

Looks like Qantas could be making an ASX announcement on Monday outlining changes to its frequent flyer program. Likely to be the formal launch of its Classic+ product.

 

[WilsonM]

Why would anyone mourn the disappearance of Qantas Classic Rewards? They're terrible. For example, SYD-PER business class:
a) American Airlines 20,000 miles plus USD27 (for the same Qantas seat)
b) Qantas Classic Reward, some massive amount, more than double both points and fees

And now the announcement of some new devalued award at Qantas with an even worse burn-rate? Whyever would they publicise this, it only draws attention to the already-miserable value of Qantas Frequent Flyer points

Sign-up bonuses in Australia are generally higher - while it makes no sense to convert from a flexible currency to QFF (especially in the USA), in Australia we're very limited for options, and we can get 100k+ QFF points from a signup. If you want KrisFlyer miles, for example, you'll generally need a flexible points currency such as AMEX or ANZ/NAB etc etc, only allowing you to get maybe 50-70k miles on sign up. So QFF prices are higher partly because the supply of points is higher.

 

[Lynda2475]

Why would anyone mourn the disappearance of Qantas Classic Rewards? They're terrible.

LOL you are not trying hard enough. Generally never a good idea to bun points on domestic travel unless to a place that is always over priced like Norfolk Island or Broome.

International long-haul J is the sweet spot. You can fly around the world for 318k points and ~$1.5k in fees . You can easily earn those 318k points by churning 1 Credit card a year, shopping at Woolworths using boosting offers, being cashless putting ever purchase on a points earning card, domestic flying you are already doing. Meaning the cost to acquire those $318k points is no more than the annual credit card fee (some years that is waived).

CR if J or F are the reason play the points game. Domestic whY just wait for a sale.

 

[tdimdad]

Why would anyone mourn the disappearance of Qantas Classic Rewards? They're terrible. For example, SYD-PER business class:
a) American Airlines 20,000 miles plus USD27 (for the same Qantas seat)
b) Qantas Classic Reward, some massive amount, more than double both points and fees

And now the announcement of some new devalued award at Qantas with an even worse burn-rate? Whyever would they publicise this, it only draws attention to the already-miserable value of Qantas Frequent Flyer points

Those who find value in QFF CR's. Simple at that. Most of them probably belong to only that program in the OW camp.

At the same time, how much does it cost you to obtain 20,000 AA miles? A recent 3rd party post referred to 2.95c USD each. That would be $900 AUD for 20,000 miles. Not particularly cheap, either.

 

[WilsonM]

LOL you are not trying hard enough. Generally never a good idea to bun points on domestic travel unless to a place that is always over priced like Norfolk Island or Broome.

It's pretty easy to get value, compared to the cost of acquiring points, from domestic travel, even in Y. SYD-MEL fares during the day, on some weekdays go beyond $250. But for 8000 points + ~$45, you can get the same seat at 2.5c per point in value. Yes, it's not the best value for points, but its still good value. The idea that its never a good idea to burn points on domestic travel is silly, as you can still get good value, and it saves you cash. Better than storing up points for a long time, only to have them devalued on you or the flights you want not exist. Points should be used ASAP, as they're not a currency and don't retain value the same way cash does.

 

[Lynda2475]

Where did I say never? I said generally, ymmv.

 

[747800intercon]

I wonder if the CR+ will earn normal points and status credits… same as P+P…

I do miss the days of the marginal Any Seat Awards - they were excellent.

 

[CaptJCool]

It's pretty easy to get value, compared to the cost of acquiring points, from domestic travel, even in Y. SYD-MEL fares during the day, on some weekdays go beyond $250. But for 8000 points + ~$45, you can get the same seat at 2.5c per point in value. Yes, it's not the best value for points, but its still good value. The idea that its never a good idea to burn points on domestic travel is silly, as you can still get good value, and it saves you cash. Better than storing up points for a long time, only to have them devalued on you or the flights you want not exist. Points should be used ASAP, as they're not a currency and don't retain value the same way cash does.

I think it also depends on the lifecycle of your earning:spending capacity plus what status you hold temporary or the permanency of Lifetime Gold LTG

OPM Other people’s money is a good way to gather points fast (be that as an employee with employer funded airfares and pocketing the point (but not APS staff) or a small business owner utilising the business cashflow to build up millions of points)

Where you made LTG sure you can keep “playing the gamification” or can happily lounge along on points funded flights because you’ve guaranteed “free food and drinks” and so can save a Motza of cash for other things in far flung places (like lunch in Paris or Christchurch)

However, the recent dearth of international CR J/F and the now 15 million members put a serious spanner in the works and many plans and hopes were dashed.

Perhaps Monday will bring a ray of hope and a dollop of new energy to the QFF program without the inflation of having to spend significantly more points to fly CR J/F

One sleep to go !

 

[p--and--t]

Who knows whether the various figures and claims on social media and indeed AFF are true?

I picked up a couple of figures asserted (correct or not?) in different posts . . . .

QFF = approx 15m members

QF CR awards = approx 5m in 2023

If they are correct, on that basis on average there is one booking per member every three years.

It would seem anybody ahead of that is doing well for themselves (including me).

 

[aikman]

Is there a rule that Qantas needs to have classic rewards available for other oneworld airlines? If so then classic rewards cannot disappear.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

I assume all this is going to have zero impact on the crazy $ costs of booking EK flights on rewards

 

[exceladdict]

I think it's sloppy reporting. Given that the value of points is fixed under this scheme, there's no reason to expect that there will be many, if any, limits to their capacity.

The only possible reason I can think for their being capacity limits is that Qantas is still making a loss at these redemption rates and, therefore, they don't want the whole plane filled with CR+ redemptions.

There is probably some reasonable fear of a one time cash flow impact if/when excited masses of people jump on to book e.g. $ from QF loyalty to QF airline.

Something else that's occured to me is a fixed points to $ ratio does is reduce the need for future devaluation e.g. as airfares inflate in price, the points cost does too, so as long as QF doesn't sell the points for any less, the margin is protected. On the other hand, fixed CR prices while cash fare costs inflate create better value for travellers and more expensive costs to QF loyalty when redeemed.

It's pretty easy to get value, compared to the cost of acquiring points, from domestic travel, even in Y. SYD-MEL fares during the day, on some weekdays go beyond $250. But for 8000 points + ~$45, you can get the same seat at 2.5c per point in value. Yes, it's not the best value for points, but its still good value. The idea that its never a good idea to burn points on domestic travel is silly, as you can still get good value, and it saves you cash. Better than storing up points for a long time, only to have them devalued on you or the flights you want not exist. Points should be used ASAP, as they're not a currency and don't retain value the same way cash does.

Exactly. The key is YMMV.

I assume all this is going to have zero impact on the crazy $ costs of booking EK flights on rewards

That's one element that hasn't really been discussed. So much focus on CR+ and assume it is only QF metal that's impacted. IF however, EK or similar were included, and taxes absorbed, this could be very interesting...

 

[RichardMEL]

I assume all this is going to have zero impact on the crazy $ costs of booking EK flights on rewards

None.

1. Those extra surcharges are imposed by EK - QF has no control over that.
2. Classic+ doesn't apply to QF partners including EK. At least from the leaked info.

 

[CaptJCool]

I assume all this is going to have zero impact on the crazy $ costs of booking EK flights on rewards

Contributing $4-5,000 for a return J/F flight on top of the points spend

When the discount J is $8,499 ( F $13,999)
You’ve almost paid half the fare right there

However when J is $12,000 (you paid 1/3 of the cash fare)

Something about the bank always wins !

 

[Princess Fiona]

I assume all this is going to have zero impact on the crazy $ costs of booking EK flights on rewards

Correct because those crazy charges are levied by EK and nothing to do with QFF

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

Contributing $4-5,000 for a return J/F flight on top of the points spend

When the discount J is $8,499 ( F $13,999)
You’ve almost paid half the fare right there

However when J is $12,000 (you paid 1/3 of the cash fare)

Something about the bank always wins !

indeed but if you paid $4-5000 and ended up in EK non 380 business you would be spewing

 

[Pushka]

Contributing $4-5,000 for a return J/F flight on top of the points spend

When the discount J is $8,499 ( F $13,999)
You’ve almost paid half the fare right there

However when J is $12,000 (you paid 1/3 of the cash fare)

Something about the bank always wins !

And small comfort, when paying outright there's the SC accrued. I wonder how Points Plus will work with it as well.