Western Sydney Airport (WSI) Discussion

[clifford]

If it happens, it’ll probably be better than extending the new western metro. Easier to put limited stops service on the heavy network.

Couldn't agree more. You have to ask who are the most likely people to use this airport (not me, for sure, as an ACT resident, but ex-Western Sydney resident). Could easily turn out to be a white(ish) elephant looking a little like AVV. Poor transport links, poor patronage.

Build it and they will come (well maybe not).

 

[TomVexille]

SMH article today reported that WSI has been designated as a primary gateway airport under air rights agreements. With a provision to review after 12 month of operation.

Way to shoot the place in the foot.

 

[moa999]

Think that was always expected.

 

[elanshin]

If it happens, it’ll probably be better than extending the new western metro. Easier to put limited stops service on the heavy network.

Would also be a one train airport to airport link if they set up the services correctly.

Post automatically merged: Thursday at 10:54 PM

SMH article today reported that WSI has been designated as a primary gateway airport under air rights agreements. With a provision to review after 12 month of operation.

Way to shoot the place in the foot.

I don't think it'll affect things too greatly. It's really only a small handful of airlines that this would affect.

 

[dajop]

Could easily turn out to be a white(ish) elephant looking a little like AVV. Poor transport links, poor patronage.

AVV is probably not a good comparison, simply because of its location relative to population centres. I think the number of people that live closer to WSI than SYD is about 5x the number of people that live closer to AVV than MEL. In reality there are about 5-6 suburbs of Melbourne ( that make up half a LGA) that are closer to AVV than MEL, and anyone else has to play the Westgate/Princes Fwy lottery to get there. This is very different to WSI. AVV's main population base is probably Geelong and beyond.

 

[jase05]

Couldn't agree more. You have to ask who are the most likely people to use this airport (not me, for sure, as an ACT resident, but ex-Western Sydney resident). Could easily turn out to be a white(ish) elephant looking a little like AVV. Poor transport links, poor patronage.

Build it and they will come (well maybe not).

It already has one thing going fo it at bat AVV doesn’t and that isfreight.
WSI will be the air freight hub of Australia whereas the various governments can’t even bribe freight to move to AVV

 

[elanshin]

It already has one thing going fo it at bat AVV doesn’t and that freight.
WSI will be the air freight hub of Australia

Not to mention it'll probably be the highest tech airport in the country. I suspect the PAX experience inside would be a lot smoother than SYD / MEL.

 

[jase05]

Not to mention it'll probably be the highest tech airport in the country. I suspect the PAX experience inside would be a lot smoother than SYD / MEL.

Yes, a very valid point.
Dependant on what airlines go out there I think from ADL if I’m connecting to International it may become a very good option and far better than the debacle that is SYD for connections. The more options the better

 

[justinbrett]

SMH article today reported that WSI has been designated as a primary gateway airport under air rights agreements. With a provision to review after 12 month of operation.

Way to shoot the place in the foot.

Melbourne includes Avalon in existing Air Services Agreements, unless the specific agreement says otherwise.

A couple do differentiate (I think Indonesia from memory) but most do not.

So no surprise WSI would be treated at least the same as Avalon.

 

[kamchatsky]

SMH article today reported that WSI has been designated as a primary gateway airport under air rights agreements. With a provision to review after 12 month of operation.

Way to shoot the place in the foot.

The article is here:

Sydney’s new airport to stay curfew-free but foreign airline barriers remain

The federal government faces growing calls for barriers to international airlines flying to the new airport to be eased.

www.smh.com.au

It is crazy that Albo is doing this. Why spend all these money building up an airport and then have this provision? What votes is he going to attract here?

I can see Dutton just say that if he wins government, he will make WSI secondary airport to get more flights to win seats in western Sydney.

 

[Himeno]

The article is here:

Sydney’s new airport to stay curfew-free but foreign airline barriers remain

The federal government faces growing calls for barriers to international airlines flying to the new airport to be eased.

www.smh.com.au

It is crazy that Albo is doing this. Why spend all these money building up an airport and then have this provision? What votes is he going to attract here?

Albo will likely end up backflipping about this. He often does when it comes to airports.

 

[justinbrett]

Albo will likely end up backflipping about this. He often does when it comes to airports.

It can still be varied country by country as is the case with Avalon.

Once you release that restriction that's pretty much gone for good. Better to hold it and relax it on a case by case basis.

Simple fact is a foreign airline could still compete with SYD based airlines from WSI, and the success of WSI is not the only objective here.

 

[kamchatsky]

It can still be varied country by country as is the case with Avalon.

Once you release that restriction that's pretty much gone for good. Better to hold it and relax it on a case by case basis.

Simple fact is a foreign airline could still compete with SYD based airlines from WSI, and the success of WSI is not the only objective here.

And Dutton will blame Albo for cost-of-living pressures of not allowing foreign airlines flying down WSI. Yes, airfares are discretionary costs but hey we are talking about politics here.

 

[justinbrett]

And Dutton will blame Albo for cost-of-living pressures of not allowing foreign airlines flying down WSI. Yes, airfares are discretionary costs but hey we are talking about politics here.

By that logic why have Air Services Agreements at all? Operate like Africa / South America where 5th freedom / cabotage (8th) is the norm, no restrictions, the more competition the better.

The capacity restrictions in these agreements have nothing to do with airport slot availability, they are not there to preserve slots at the major airports. They are there to balance competition, and the lack of restrictions in regional airports (in many agreements, but not all) are to encourage new services to these airports which can do with the extra freight & tourism.

As above, nothing stopping them right now for updating individual agreements to give extra capacity to WSI. No need to make it carte blanche for all airlines.

 

[clifford]

They are there to balance competition

Isn't that an oxymoron? And as for Albo, this just looks like another Voice to me (although on a much smaller scale).

 

[dajop]

TBH, mountain and molehole comes to mind. People think international competition is the problem? When you can regularly find fares from Melbourne to Singapore for less than you can from Melbourne to Sydney then I don’t think competition on international routes is quite the political problem relating to airfares ….

But then again I guess the problem isn't economy fares, it's business class. At the end of the day in this particular echo chamber, more competition = more Q suites on QR available for redemption? So it really becomes a question of whether, if they had less constrained capacity, would QR up their services to Australia using WSI?

 

[elanshin]

The narrative that has somehow become the mainstream understanding is that international fares are expensive because QF has a monopolistic grasp, yet this is far from the truth. There's a very competitive pricing across a lot of airlines. Whether you want to fly them or not is a different story.

Either way Albo already casted his political dice for WSI with the promise of a rail extension. I don't think the major Sydney airport designation will really change much - doubt the average layman would even understand what that even means.

After all, there is only a very small subset of carriers this would affect as the rest have open skies agreement with us.

 

[Melburnian1]

By that logic why have Air Services Agreements at all? Operate like Africa / South America where 5th freedom / cabotage (8th) is the norm, no restrictions, the more competition the better.

The capacity restrictions in these agreements have nothing to do with airport slot availability, they are not there to preserve slots at the major airports. They are there to balance competition, and the lack of restrictions in regional airports (in many agreements, but not all) are to encourage new services to these airports which can do with the extra freight & tourism.

As above, nothing stopping them right now for updating individual agreements to give extra capacity to WSI. No need to make it carte blanche for all airlines.

"Balancing competition" sounds like socialism.

The AFL is expert at this.

Consumers (in this case travellers) would benefit from less regulation, not 'updating individual agreements'.

If SQ wanted to operate from SYD or the yet to open WS airport to MEL or BNE and carry domestic passengers, why not?

 

[jase05]

If SQ wanted to operate from SYD or the yet to open WS airport to MEL or BNE and carry domestic passengers, why not?

Because the very average airline that is Qantas would fold within 2 years.
There would just be too many Australian jobs at stake I’d imagine

 

[SYD]

Because the very average airline that is Qantas would fold within 2 years.
There would just be too many Australian jobs at stake I’d imagine

TBH, the QF domestic offer is far superior to SQs domestic service…

But seriously, and staying OT, there are very few countries that are like for like domestic market. The USA and Canada are obvious ones and they’re not good benchmarks.