What compensation is fair from airline when you have a shocking flight???

What compensation is fair for a terrible business class flight?

  • 15,000 miles

    Votes: 1 2.7%
  • 25%

    Votes: 25 67.6%
  • 50%

    Votes: 8 21.6%
  • 100%

    Votes: 3 8.1%

  • Total voters
    37
  • Poll closed .
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There is nothing in the Contract which states the airline MUST put you in the class you paid for. This is why they can overbook W/J/F if they choose. The only thing they must do is get you from A to B (or refund your fare).

Certainly, from the airlines perspective, this is possibly what they would like their customers to believe. The argument presented would be that although carriage from A-B was conducted, that the circumstances of the carriage were not of the standard expected or advertised, or of a type that a 'reasonable person' would expect. The 'reasonable person' test (or reasonable expectation test) is one often seen and gives courts the ability to flex a bit of thought over matters like this.


The Contract does normally say you will get some sort of compensation for an involuntary downgrade however.

Certainly


In this case, the OP travelled in the correct class so the Contract was satisfied in full.

I'd certainly argue that. The carriage part of the contract may well be argued by the airline to have been fulfilled, but the payment and the contract for J & F (and other special classifications) is not only about the most basic carriage. Again, I'd expect an airline feeling unkind to really weigh heavily on the A-B argument, but I'm not sure how far the premise would get if tested.

There would simply be no real incentive for airlines to try their hardest to have most or all of the systems on board in a working state if they honestly felt there was no legal 'wiggle room' in what they may perceive to be their own black and white contract for carriage.

Very often the T&C/contracts of carriers are no more (in effect) than a statement of their own voluntary undertakings and do not speak to law per se.

In any event, cases like this can be brought to court by anyone, any time. Mostly, companies who understand a customers grievance, and do not consider it trivial or otherwise harmful to their brand, will settle in the customers favour as its just not worth their while to fire up the 'company legal machine' and they know full well that unless the case is indeed frivolous, at the very least they will smear their branding and quite possibly lose outright.
 
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Wow. I'm really surprised by the comments of 'technically nothing' or similar. I see this as broken contract and therefore completely up for negotiation between the parties.

But this is the problem. The 'technically nothing' comes from the fact that there are no guidelines or mandated law which specifies how the restitution due to the customer, if any, is supposed to be calculated. I'll concede that part of the contract was broken (or, let's just say, "it was broken" - simpler), but now how do we determine the fairness of compensation? (Mind you, for a given customer and company, even with a situation like this, it is conceivable, though not applicable to this case and only remotely possible, that an apology with no financial compensation could be regarded as "fair").

Consumer law may argue simply that if you don't receive what you were advertised to get, you are eligible for a refund. I can understand that for something like goods (e.g. if your laptop was supposed to have 2GB RAM but it was sold to you with only 1GB, you can claim a refund). I'm not sure how it translates to things like services (e.g. if you get your carpet cleaned for 3 rooms but the guy only cleans 2, do you get a refund for all 3 rooms or do you get a refund for 1 room which wasn't cleaned?). Then, airlines are another beast.

Across the world, no jurisdiction has a good grasp on this one. Only some aspects are well protected, e.g. in the EU there are set guidelines on compensating passengers who are delayed or displaced due to cancellation, overbooking etc., plus other care provisions. The US DoT has some consumer protections with respect to pricing and other aspects (for example, but notwithstanding, the latest United Airlines 4 mile HKG ticket debacle).


In this case, the OP only received part of the product offered (i.e. a ticket to go from SYD to LHR return, via AUH, on EY Business Class). Had the OP received absolutely nothing (e.g. cancelled flight, bumped with no rebooking) then a full refund is due. It might be arguable for a full refund if the OP had SYD-AUH in Y rather than J, in spite of otherwise 3 flawless sectors (otherwise, a substantial compensation due, owing to a serious failure of product delivery, viz. wrong class, rather than just this case of a malfunctioning seat and so on; note also that there is a big difference between if the OP had actually flown Y as opposed to if the OP had flown something similar to Y).


All in all, the common argument of just taking the 25% is a risk most of us are saying is acceptable only because negotiating a higher amount may be too difficult to achieve. The legal avenue to exact a higher compensation is not without risk (unless you can file it in VCAT, apparently). There's also a time-cost benefit here to keep in mind. Finally, notwithstanding a more serious failure of product, I think most of us would be surprised to exact a compensation as high as 25% out of an airline so quickly without legal action.

We're not telling the OP that they have no other recourse (legal included) if they aren't happy with the offer of compensation, but then the OP did ask for our opinion of "fairness" of the best offer so far.

It can be difficult where a flight did complete (and wasn't cancelled), but in the background of the existing discussion with the airline I'd feel out the CC provider in relation to a charge-back. If you are successful with a charge-back it puts you in a much better bargaining position. In my mind a service was provided, but the contractual breakdown was that the service _sold_ was not provided. So, probably some common ground in paying something for the leg that was affected but how much really depends on the two parties negotiating it out.

If you feel you got an economy product, on balance, then I'd pay that. If you felt it was below even economy (and be fair in your mind about this) then sure, negotiate for less.

This is more interesting as I hadn't thought about instigating a chargeback. For chargebacks the onus is on the company to prove that they deserve the money (i.e. delivered on the goods or services as paid by the OP). I have no experience how this process exactly works and whether there is any risk on the side of the OP (especially if, though difficult to unlikely, EY can prove to the credit card company that they delivered the product as paid).
 
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This is more interesting as I hadn't thought about instigating a chargeback. For chargebacks the onus is on the company to prove that they deserve the money (i.e. delivered on the goods or services as paid by the OP) .

Not quite that simple; the onus differs depending on the credit card provider (and their contractual obligations). For example, if doing an Amex chargeback, the onus is on the provider to show it deserves the money. For Visa/Mastercard, the onus is on the customer to show why they shouldn't pay.

Having said that, I am very strongly of the belief that quite a few AFFers seem to use chargebacks as a weapon to use fairly early in the piece, if they are dissatisfied with the service they have received. Thjat's not really why chargebacks exist - it's more to cover situations where you have not received the goods/services at all, or there has been a fraudulent charge. In my view, if the issue is just dissatisfaction, then a chargeback should be about the last option, when all else has failed.

And as for those who keep demanding "compensation" for every little thing that goes wrong ...........
 
Across the world, no jurisdiction has a good grasp on this one. Only some aspects are well protected, e.g. in the EU there are set guidelines on compensating passengers who are delayed or displaced due to cancellation, overbooking etc., plus other care provisions. The US DoT has some consumer protections with respect to pricing and other aspects (for example, but notwithstanding, the latest United Airlines 4 mile HKG ticket debacle).

Where specific guidelines are not provided there is very often a 'reasonableness' test applied, particularly where consumers are concerned, this is sometimes called different things but the basic nature of the test is 'what would a reasonable person expect' in xx_ given circumstance.


All in all, the common argument of just taking the 25% is a risk most of us are saying is acceptable only because negotiating a higher amount may be too difficult to achieve. The legal avenue to exact a higher compensation is not without risk (unless you can file it in VCAT, apparently). There's also a time-cost benefit here to keep in mind. Finally, notwithstanding a more serious failure of product, I think most of us would be surprised to exact a compensation as high as 25% out of an airline so quickly without legal action.

I don't know. Perhaps.

25% is the companies offer without much evidence as presented to this thread of much of a counter offer. If the airline is, pretty much straight up, willing to offer 25%, and if the OP was likely to be reasonably happy to start his negotiation at say 50-60% (or whatever seemed reasonable), then my guess is that it wouldn't go anywhere near a courtroom and would likely settle in the 35-45% area.


We're not telling the OP that they have no other recourse (legal included) if they aren't happy with the offer of compensation, but then the OP did ask for our opinion of "fairness" of the best offer so far.

Sure. Its completely subjective of course. Most voting here are willing and happy with the companies offer. Its why companies make offers like this. Mostly, they will get away with a reasonably low compensation. I'm not saying its fair or reasonable or unjust and unreasonable. What I am suggesting is that the faulting party is willing to begin negotiation at 25%, the unfaulting party appears to be not 100% happy with the offer and they have myriad choices on how to pursue a more satisfactory resolution.

If the company at fault won't even negotiate past their initial offer, then see if payment can be rescinded. This improves ones bargaining position as I mentioned earlier and essentially forces the company to come to the negotiation table instead of simply stonewalling you.

Perhaps a charge-back is not possible, or would prove too difficult, but even if so, there are not very time consuming actions one can take. I'm guessing that given the number of pax, and the J tickets involved, even a 40-50% return could be $10K or more. I'd certainly spend an hour or so of my time pursuing such a potential refund, unless I felt that I was, in the end, being frivolous. Only the OP can know the right answer for them.

Many companies are quick to offer dog food, but are usually not that unhappy to provide a steak sandwich if everyone keeps their cool and negotiates in good faith.
 
In my view, if the issue is just dissatisfaction, then a chargeback should be about the last option, when all else has failed.

Yes, I agree.

I generally use the charge-back route when negotiations fail. Which is not to say that I'm not getting my own way, but when companies just fail to respond to good faith negotiation efforts. These same companies tend also to not respond to the charge-back 'show cause'.
 
I think the offer of 25% is reasonable and compensates over and above the fare difference if travel had been in Economy on that leg. The experience was still superior to being in Economy, so given they are not ever obliged to carry a pax in the cabin paid for anyway, that seems reasonable. No airline wants to have a product failure like this, and it should be treated as an unfortunate one off. Compensation is definitely due, but I think the amount supplied is adequate.

If I was EY, I would look at any request for more than 25% only with regard to the value of the pax to me. Are they a tiered frequent flyer? Given the tone of their communications, are they likely to fly with us again, even if I give a 100% refund? Why give more if they will never return anyway?

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I can't actually see how you could have a "shocking" flight without any electricity. :p

Seriously though, the 25% seems OK to me, but I guess it is up to the OP to do what they see fit...but it may backfire if they go for more.
 
If it was me . I would take them to department of fair trading . 25% what a joke ! Are you joking .paid J class not only got a bad experience but also ruined your whole holiday. $10k +
 
If it was me . I would take them to department of fair trading . 25% what a joke ! Are you joking .paid J class not only got a bad experience but also ruined your whole holiday. $10k +

And what would they do? they certainly don't dish out compensation for "pain and suffering" and i didn't read the bit that said it it ruined the holiday..

It was one leg out of 4. 25% is a pretty good outcome.
 
Have you ever had a 5* dining experience ? If the starter or entree is tastes like vomit the rest of the meal is ruined . Same is the case for this trip. However I'm a constant complainer :)
 
Have you ever had a 5* dining experience ? If the starter or entree is tastes like vomit the rest of the meal is ruined . Same is the case for this trip. However I'm a constant complainer :)

Yes I have had a few 5* dining experiences. By the same token though, I haven't let a bad mean ruin a night out, and that is a better analogy of the situation above.
 
If it was me . I would take them to department of fair trading . 25% what a joke ! Are you joking .paid J class not only got a bad experience but also ruined your whole holiday. $10k +

If a single bad flight ruins your whole holiday, then I do believe the words "toughen up" could be applied. Bad flights happen, surely you can remember a time or two when things did not go completely to plan. Yes they suck, yes they make you question about using that airline again, yes it can be a very uncomfortable number of hours, but once the flight is over, it's over. Don't let a single bad flight ruin an entire holiday.
 
Flew HKG-SYD in J - two weeks after I got home I received a travel voucher for $600 as compensation for the IFE not working on the flight - I wasn't aware as I hadn't turned it on...

I personally think that 25% is pretty decent compensation. You had decent leg room, decent food, decent service. And they got you where you wanted to go.
 
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