What is a shadow ? (Qantas )

[RichardMEL]

What Juddles said.

I'll say this again because every time tis comes up it drives me bananas... and I'm crazy enough as it is

The "shadow" or "blocked seat" is *NOT* and never has been a definied benefit. Not even for P1. You will not find ANY reference to this on any QF external website. Not even as a vague promise.

Yes, they show up, and I think there is an intent by QF to provide them, specially to P1, and sometimes they work out, sometimes they do not.

However it is NOT something anyone should expect because that will only leads to disappointment.

And often it may seem like one has a shadow even after boarding, then bang... standbys and the like are processed, and agents will place people wherever.. they don't have time to worry about elites and shadows and the like. More than once I've had supposed shadows (I never ask for them, just note on EF) vanish a few minutes before door close, and usually it's a standby pax or staff on NRSA travel. It happens.

As for Golds and lower "getting lucky" that is just it. It may be due to the other pax in the row having status.. or may just simply be dumb luck of the allocations. In no way should it be attributed to one's own status in my view. If P1 can't rely on it, then there's no way a Gold should.

And finally, as note above, if one wants to ensure that extra seat on a long flight (and don't we all want that huh? ) then yes, purchase a comfort seat (or hope for an upgrade )

my four cents.

 

[tdimdad]

As for Golds and lower "getting lucky" that is just it. It may be due to the other pax in the row having status.. or may just simply be dumb luck of the allocations. In no way should it be attributed to one's own status in my view. If P1 can't rely on it, then there's no way a Gold should.

That's what it looks like. On my next booking the QF1 we have J/K selected with my better half and H available, while on QF74 back A/B selected and C was blocked right-away already back then (and has stayed so far). It'd be great to have the H be one of the last ones allocated but sounds like we're in for pot luck with it (or with both, should the flights fill).

 

[serfty]

Yes, they show up, and I think there is an intent by QF to provide them, specially to P1, and sometimes they work out, sometimes they do not.

However it is NOT something anyone should expect because that will only leads to disappointment.

Certainly unwritten and often they don't stick.

As has been mentioned up-thread, is interesting to watch them move with a status PAX when they change seats.

e.g. On a 738, allocated 6C, 6B is unavailable for selection by another PAX and shows on the GDS as blocked (not allocated).

Move to 5D and 5E becomes blocked when it has not been so before and 6B becomes unblocked with 6C also freed.

i.e. The "Shadow" moved from 6B to 5E.

 

[dajop]

but if a night flight, I would probably buy the seat next to me and my own on the 330, or fly premY SIN - SYD/MEL with QF, seeing that the 380 does fly the SIN - MEL/SYD route again.

I do this route 7-9 times a year (and have done so for last 10 years), mainly in economy. I have my routines, so cope fine with Y. It's a bonus if you get an empty seat beside you, but by now I cope just fine without it. Find it more useful on day flights, if I want to get work done on the laptop, it's really handy to have empty seat to spread out on, especially if the person in front of you reclines.

 

[Per_Travels]

Ahhh, where do I start??

A shadow is exactly that - a shady concept. I love this as it brings a whole new level of wonder and Hope to status flying.

I have followed discussions on this topic for years, and my conclusion is that I now know even less than when I started.

If I had to state what I thought to be the real case (and QF have NEVER to my knowledge officially given support to this concept), then my best guess is the following:

There is some mechanism, either auto or staff-driven, to soft-block the seat next to a status member. This sort of impedes lesser folk from selecting the seat next to you. But in true QF fashion, I suspect that at some point in time, just before the flight, this impediment is removed, and suddenly that seat is available for check-in or airport staff to fill, which they happily do.

I have had endless experiences where at the glorious heights of P1 the "empty" seat beside me became occupied by a ring-in at boarding when there were many other seats vacant for the flight. Time after time after time. The times I have indulged in conversation with the invader of my un-paid for space, they are usually someone who is on some sort of staff travel (waitlisted) or a late upgrade.

I would suggest that you should enjoy the concept, but not actually rely on it. If you choose something like a first row, then that apparently empty seat next to you has a decent chance of being filled at last minute.

Have never bought "comfort seats", but am sure they are a far more reliable way of getting an empty seta next to you.

I think the most irritating aspect of this is that, when the mythical blocks/impediments are removed, the remaining seats are, quite naturally, taken from the front first, where the highest status passengers usualy reside. Hence higher status passengers get a seat partner and lower status receive the shadow benefit.

 

[dajop]

Well pleased to report not only did my SG shadow stick last night, but it turned into the sort of shadow you see at sunrise or sunset. Very happy about that.

 

[mrsterryn]

Well pleased to report not only did my SG shadow stick last night, but it turned into the sort of shadow you see at sunrise or sunset. Very happy about that.

Nice flight
I have one sitting beside me. Hope it sticks or upgrade fairy comes through

 

[RichardMEL]

Well pleased to report not only did my SG shadow stick last night, but it turned into the sort of shadow you see at sunrise or sunset. Very happy about that.

That's really great if you got the two seats free. That's the kind of flight we all enjoy Harder and harder to find these days, even for P1's!

Please though, don't call it a "SG Shadow" as there's no such thing.

I do not want to seem rude, but in prior years some on this board have suggested that Golds DO get shadows as an entitlement and that's just simpl not the case (as discussed above). While P1's can request a seat block via the SST, and sometimes the system does seem to provide one, it's certainly true that a Gold(for example) cannot do this.

I only wish to set expectation levels appropriately with my comment.

 

[dajop]

Please though, don't call it a "SG Shadow" as there's no such thing.

I do not want to seem rude, but in prior years some on this board have suggested that Golds DO get shadows as an entitlement and that's just simpl not the case (as discussed above).

Maybe SG’s and above do get shadows when the load factors are only 50%... expert flyer showed my seat and several other occupied seats (5 in total in front 7 rows) had seats beside them blocked (with X) up to departure. So maybe there is some truth to it on very lightly loaded flights.

 

[RichardMEL]

It may well be, and it may well be in an allocation algorithm.

My point is that people will read these threads into the future doing searches and so on, and as of now it's not any kind of established fact (as noted nowhere will you even find blocked seats as a defined benefit for P1, let alone lower status).

Just suggesting it is a thing (and I am not saying YOU are doing that) doesn't make it so based on annecdotal evidence. If some think that it may be an entitlement of status then that will lead to disappointment based on misleading information. In My view anyway.

feel free to flame away

 

[juddles]

Virgin try to place spare seats next to platinums:

• Time of booking – we reserve specific zones that are only available for selection for members within the relevant Velocity tiers.
• 48hrs to departure – we release most of the unused seats in the preferred zones for others members and guests.
• 12hrs to departure - we release all unused seats in the preferred zones and, where we can, endeavour to provide a spare seat beside our Platinum Velocity members*.

*Subject to operational requirements & not available on all aircraft types in the fleet.

As I never fly Virgin I am not familiar with their stuff, but what woodborer shared is very interesting. I suspect that even though Qantas does not advertise this as a benefit, their system is probably exactly the same.

And thus it makes perfect sense why the highest status shadows are most likely to be filled at the very last minute by the least highest status upgrades/waitlisteds/etc.

I think that essentially Qantas does it in this unofficial way to try to ensure the greatest possible flying experience for pax, but without the nightmare of complaints that would come if they tried to advertise it as a benefit they will try to provide (pax interpret "benefits (*when available)" as "My God-given Right (*and no exceptions for Me)"

 

[vandy]

Maybe SG’s and above do get shadows when the load factors are only 50%... expert flyer showed my seat and several other occupied seats (5 in total in front 7 rows) had seats beside them blocked (with X) up to departure. So maybe there is some truth to it on very lightly loaded flights.

As SG, I've had lounge staff tell me they've blocked the seat next to me, so it can be done. And that's without me directly asking for it, just casually asked how full the flight is and if there's any better seats available. Other times, the response to that question is "we're not allowed to tell you for operational reasons". So as with everything Qantas, it all seems very random.

 

[Aus ATC]

Can one request a shadow as a SG? I'm looking at having three seats for the two of us on QF1 to LHR so any extra space would be great.

Best bet - and this will raise the ire of some, is to book an aisle and window (perhaps even towards the rear) and hope that no-one selects the middle seat. Worst case, you either stick with your aisle/window seats, or offer to swap with the person in the middle so you can sit together. As a SG, you could always ask at check in if they can block the seat - assuming it has held that late. And keep an eye on the seat maps, and be prepared to change strategically as may be necessary.

 

[juddles]

Best bet - and this will raise the ire of some, is to book an aisle and window (perhaps even towards the rear) and hope that no-one selects the middle seat. ....

Let's please not have this debate again

 

[GoldCanyon340]

Best bet - and this will raise the ire of some, is to book an aisle and window (perhaps even towards the rear) and hope that no-one selects the middle seat. Worst case, you either stick with your aisle/window seats, or offer to swap with the person in the middle so you can sit together. As a SG, you could always ask at check in if they can block the seat - assuming it has held that late. And keep an eye on the seat maps, and be prepared to change strategically as may be necessary.

A Qantas Gold reserving window and aisle seats then asking for a seat block for the middle seat is way beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Aus ATC]

A Qantas Gold reserving window and aisle seats then asking for a seat block for the middle seat is way beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned.

Could be worse - a Qantas Silver or Bronze might do it......

 

[tdimdad]

Best bet - and this will raise the ire of some, is to book an aisle and window (perhaps even towards the rear) and hope that no-one selects the middle seat.

Thanks but not taking that risk. I outright selected seats which are bearable with a view that the flight will be full and we have someone seated next to us. If there's extra room, then, of course, it'd be excellent to have that isle seat free to some additional space but I'd rather have the airline delay the filling of it instead of having any Joe Bloke randomly select it any time.

 

[Princess Fiona]

P1 and I rarely see or get a shadow unless I request it. Often I do request it on QFLink and rarely on International SH Y. Definitely only applies to Y for me, can’t get one in J.
I’m pretty sure someone told me way back that Shadows are only definitely automatic for CL P1 anything else is a bonus.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

My first flight as a P1 was an ADL-SYD sitting in 1A with 1C blocked, at least according to ExpertFlyer. It's gone steadily downhill since then. Row 4 on Trans Tasman, myself and Mrs340 get the odd empty seat but not often. However on these flights I'll usually get J wine for the entirety so swings and roundabouts.

 

[Longtoo]

I feel that shadow is done by a computer algorithm based on status and loading, just like award upgrade. I have had a few shadows as WP in my recent flights and notice low loading in the Y cabin. The check in agents often confirm (without me asking) that the seat next to me is empty. I have also had a few flight in Y without a shadow. they were pretty full though.
PS: most of my flights are international.