What takes people from Qantas ?

[agentgerko]

The obvious reason to switch from QF is price as QF is one of the most expensive airlines around. An average Business return to London with QF is around $9500. One of the chinese carriers was recently offering the same for $4500. Still get lounges. Still get flat beds. Is the QF status worth five grand, one might ask? Even staying with Oneworld, there are some members with very good prices, such as Qatar who can offer the same trip for around $6500, a saving of $300 over QF, but time after time I see people insisting on booking QF and paying heavily for it to maximise the status/points they earn because the other Oneworld airlines pay greatly reduced points/status. I certainly believe there are plenty of travellers who pay far to much for their travel because they either have the company paying so its not out of their own pocket, or because they enjoy being able to flash that Platinum card around.

 

[Kremmen]

I moved most of my flying away from Qantas many years ago. I'd fallen for the promises of status, yet the majority of times that I tried to use free upgrades on Qantas, they refused. Once, they even removed business class service from the plane because insufficient passengers were flying (paid) business for them to care. I knew that some other airlines would seldom let any business or first class seats go empty when there were passengers with a valid upgrade instrument who wanted to upgrade. Basically, Qantas were cheap coughs who saved $10 on food by leaving me in economy and lost tens of thousands of dollars in revenue as a result.

I switched the majority of my flying to Star Alliance. Status with United was much easier to obtain than with Qantas and much more valuable. As a UA 1K with SWUs, I was able to upgrade to business on every economy flight I booked to the USA. Once Qantas introduced fees (disguised as fuel surcharges), QFF became even less valuable, so I credited my few Qantas flights to AAdvantage or Alaska MileagePlan instead.

While those were the main reasons, value, as others pointed out, has worked against Qantas. Some years ago, there were Lufthansa business class fares to Europe via the USA for under $6k. That really stacked on the United miles and there was no OneWorld fare that even came close. Equipment is also an issue. The QF A330 is nice when you are on your own in business, but the large, immovable partitions are a major annoyance if you are travelling with someone. Pretty much every other airline has done that better. (CX middle seats are angled towards each other and can move forwards, TG A350 and A380 middle seats oscillate between far apart and together, etc.)

 

[pspeet]

I'm no longer impressed with QF. I am just a gold FF and really get very little for that. I fly SYD-SIN and SYD-MEL at least twice each year for both. This is my airline of choice but:

1. You look at SQ with 5 or 6 daily to SIN (including Scoot.), QF have 2 (A380 pm, A330 am) and no inflight shopping.
2. You look at CX with 4 flights to HKG. QF has two (A380 am, A330 pm.)
3. I flew premium economy recently (A380) and in that class, while nice and the service was top class, the seats are tired.

QF is not interested in competing at all on any route and giving pax the opportunity to arrive at their destinations at better times for them.

QF's on-time running is terrible both Domestic and International. They are lucky if they leave 1 hour after the schedule from SYD. In July I had one domestic (2hrs late) and one international (1.5hrs late.) I don't care what the reason was, it just happens all the time.

You can never book on points for your partner or yourself. No available seats! Ridiculous.

And the change in the FF policy is no help.

Finally, by using points you are still actually paying for your travel. QF should look at providing status points for these trips as well, but that will never happen.

 

[Promethius]

I think Qantas has forgotten that a loyalty program should be a two-way street. Its not just customers who are being loyal. Qantas should show some return loyalty as well.

Keep this in mind in view of this headline.

Qantas profit soars 15 percent to $980 million

Having just made that profit increase on the back of loyal customers .. Here are some examples.
The fact that the flights are usually co-shared with maybe 2 or 3 other airlines ending up with a jumbo with no spare seats and all the upgrade seats are given away to the partner airlines first. There is no enjoyment in travelling on a fully booked Jumbo!

The fact that Qantas flight rewards charged excessive airport taxes and fuel levies so that the eventual cost of the charges meant it was nearly the same cost as a standard flight to Hawaii...even after taking your hard earned points!

That many people fly with the airline due to their safety record and extensive pilot training, not how you are treated by some of the cabin crew.
That you cant even get seating with extra legroom because its been given away to co-shared airlines with passengers who are either under age or physically unfit and therefore not eligible to be in an exit row.

That there are so few redemption seats available that you have to be the first one to book a complete year in advance the day the seats become available to be able to redeem any of your points.

That Qantas have degraded the value you can obtain from your points over the years.


It would be interesting to find out how many of the GLT that are saying how great membership is are public servants gaining lifetime status on the taxpayers funded business class seats.

For the normal FF its hardly worth it.

 

[Azure]

For the frequent flyer program, I just want to add that there are so many different choices.

For VA velocity members, you get virgin domestic and VS UK lounges, DL lounges in North America, SQ lounges in Singapore and EY lounges in most big cities, a few HU lounges in China.

For SQ krisflyers, no DL and EY lounges but all the *A lounges!

If you want to pursue lifetime status > Qantas Lifetime Gold, DL lifetime platinum and diamond could be your objectives. Unlike AA or UA require their own flights, most miles can be used for the lifetime status, plus VA is a first-degree airline partner to DL (earning rate is good as flights of DL). Also, there are much more SkyTeam members in Asia than any other. If you travel with family, MS can also be a good choice for lifetime status.

 

[sudoer]

If you want to pursue lifetime status > Qantas Lifetime Gold, DL lifetime platinum and diamond could be your objectives. Unlike AA or UA require their own flights, most miles can be used for the lifetime status, plus VA is a first-degree airline partner to DL (earning rate is good as flights of DL). Also, there are much more SkyTeam members in Asia than any other.

The biggest issue with this approach is no one knows what alliances/partnerships will look like in the next 5, 10, 25 years - and that matters if the endgame is lifetime status.

Hypothetically, if VA were to join *A at some stage in the future, do you think its relationship with Delta would remain unchanged? You could end up holding lifetime status with a foreign airline which has no partners in Australia.

 

[Azure]

The biggest issue with this approach is no one knows what alliances/partnerships will look like in the next 5, 10, 25 years - and that matters if the endgame is lifetime status.

Hypothetically, if VA were to join *A at some stage in the future, do you think its relationship with Delta would remain unchanged? You could end up holding lifetime status with a foreign airline which has no partners in Australia.

This is indeed true and that's why a lot of people stay with Qantas if they haven't achieved LFF yet. However, if they did get LFF, lifetime SkyTeam status is worth chasing isn't it, providing lifetime *A is way harder? Also, the chances of VA joining SkyTeam is no less than *A, given NZ and VA are also breaking up.

 

[JohnMcC]

it is such a complicated and yet simple issue. I used to be Platinum but the cost of flying business compared with real other carriers (I don't count the Middle East airlines as play fair competition) such as JAL is so much lower and with vastly superior business class seats. I try and stay One World so I am not even comparing with Singapore. But Qantas is not efficient. For Tokyo flights they need 2 planes, JAL uses one working more efficiently so their ticket costs are lower - and their business class is demonstrably better. I am glad that Qantas is back into profitability but they stretched loyalty too much!

 

[Wanderlust_tim]

Interesting article. We are a sports club/State program who flies semi regularly. We were trying to negotiate a better deal as we can only buy group tickets as we travel in groups of 14-140. The groups and QBR would not come to the party despite spending over 100k a year (for effectively no points etc) for the last 3 years. I had my credit card out to buy 140 return domestic seats, and 62 international to USA. Unfortunately the fine lady at Qantas said that "I don't care if you don't book with us"... Virgin and Delta got the business, with a handy financial saving too. So far Virgin have come to the party doing anything they can to help with our sports tours! We will see if we go back to Qantas... Loyalty goes both ways, probably more cost effective to get a new customer than retain (like the banks)!

*Whistles* Holy moley, was this just a call centre operator? Or is there a specific team that handle arrangements like that?

 

[adamkps]

It's bye bye to QF for me. I've just completed 2 J class returns to Hobart from Sydney, one on VA and one on QF. The difference was stark. Crew and food were miles ahead on VA. One dinner meal on QF, a cold beef salad, was inedible and the service was dreadful.

 

[ajw373]

The obvious reason to switch from QF is price as QF is one of the most expensive airlines around. An average Business return to London with QF is around $9500.

Just booked flights for 2 adults and 2 kids Canberra to London, return QF coded flight (on EK), via BKK and Qantas back to Canberra. Cost $4800, economy of course. They were the cheapest by a long shot.

Whilst I know what you are saying in business class to say they are one of the most expensive airlines around is a bit of a stretch. All depends on day, route and competition.

 

[jase05]

Just booked flights for 2 adults and 2 kids Canberra to London, return QF coded flight (on EK), via BKK and Qantas back to Canberra. Cost $4800, economy of course. They were the cheapest by a long shot.

Whilst I know what you are saying in business class to say they are one of the most expensive airlines around is a bit of a stretch. All depends on day, route and competition.

Think they were referring to flying on a QF flight not a codeshare like EK.

 

[Kiwi_Flyer]

The biggest issue with this approach is no one knows what alliances/partnerships will look like in the next 5, 10, 25 years - and that matters if the endgame is lifetime status.

Hypothetically, if VA were to join *A at some stage in the future, do you think its relationship with Delta would remain unchanged? You could end up holding lifetime status with a foreign airline which has no partners in Australia.

True. My solution to this was to obtain lifetime status with each alliance (One World Sapphire, Star Alliance Gold, Sky Team Elite Plus).

 

[ajw373]

I am taking about flying on Qantas too. Only LHR-DXB-BKK is EK but on Qantas ticket and flight number. The rest is qantas metal and flight number. So qantas ticket, Qantas price all the way regardless of metal.

 

[VPS]

I'm no longer impressed with QF. I am just a gold FF and really get very little for that. I fly SYD-SIN and SYD-MEL at least twice each year for both. This is my airline of choice but:

1. You look at SQ with 5 or 6 daily to SIN (including Scoot.), QF have 2 (A380 pm, A330 am) and no inflight shopping.
2. You look at CX with 4 flights to HKG. QF has two (A380 am, A330 pm.)
3. I flew premium economy recently (A380) and in that class, while nice and the service was top class, the seats are tired.

QF is not interested in competing at all on any route and giving pax the opportunity to arrive at their destinations at better times for them.

QF's on-time running is terrible both Domestic and International. They are lucky if they leave 1 hour after the schedule from SYD. In July I had one domestic (2hrs late) and one international (1.5hrs late.) I don't care what the reason was, it just happens all the time.

You can never book on points for your partner or yourself. No available seats! Ridiculous.

And the change in the FF policy is no help.

Finally, by using points you are still actually paying for your travel. QF should look at providing status points for these trips as well, but that will never happen.

You can never book on points for your partner or yourself. No available seats! Ridiculous.
Interesting first post 8 years after joining. Maybe you need to spend more time on this forum. I've redeemed more than ten long haul J and F flights using my Qantas points

 

[sudoer]

True. My solution to this was to obtain lifetime status with each alliance (One World Sapphire, Star Alliance Gold, Sky Team Elite Plus).

The dream!

 

[Fatcat]

QF is an overhyped marketing phenomenon.

I only fly for work once a year and company policy is Y, so I have to top up the difference to fly J. For leisure I like to treat myself in F/J. When its your own money, you tend to pay more attention to value for money, and that’s where QF falls short every single time (other than when they have a big sale on). Some of the F/J fares are downright outrageous, and the only people I know who pay those tariffs are travelling on the company dime (and the only reason is chasing status); for leisure travel in premium cabins they are a lot more price sensitive and choose other carriers. The fees for changing or cancelling flights are pretty high and also a lot higher than say EK, even for the same codeshare flights. Domestic J is daylight robbery – although Ive only flown it a handful of times (and only 1-1.5 hr segments), the lounges were disappointing, the inflight grub insipid (LF/OS does well for flights of similar duration) and why anyone would pay 3 times the Y fare for a short hop with that sort of service and product differential is beyond me.

The food in J has been getting worse and worse over the years, compared to EK or EY its embarrassingly mediocre – I couldn’t get both fruit and pudding on several flights, which I don’t think is asking too much when Im paying $5-6k for a flight to HKG/HND when carriers like EK/CX/SQ gives you both and cheese too if you want. Not a fan of the small/big plate concept either, or the very average quality of the food. The seats (other than some of the A330s) are one or two generations behind the top carriers. In F the food is better but still miles behind the competition, and the wines (other than the champagne) are a joke compared to their peers especially EK. The cabins are no contest either – the new suites on EK, SQ and EY are just in a diff league. QF hasn’t done much with the F/J cabin for years. The pajamas are handy but they might as well stop handing out the poor excuse they call the J amenity kits. I might sound like a whinging princess but this is all in relation to the high prices that QF has the audacity to charge. QF has been cost cutting for years, and its nice that the company is making record profits, but eventually some customers will get annoyed at paying a premium for a vastly inferior product and vote with their feet. Although given QF’s latest results today it seems most aussies are happier than ever to be ripped off. As Rooflyer said, they pump/print/give out the points like it’s the Weimar Republic in the 1920s, and finding a redemption seat in a premium cabin is near impossible on some routes and has been for a long time – and Im not interested in using pts for overpriced appliances. Apparently QF is thinking about introducing a new level of reward seats at twice the price, but with “more” seats. Direct and indirect devaluations/enhancements make the QFF program very average at best. AJ himself made a comment about how successful Qantas Loyalty has been to the bottom line given the pulling power of QF points. That division has made $370m per year for the past two years. They even managed to issue over $4bn in QF cash, which offers FX spreads so wide/bad that it would make the big four banks blush - Ned Kelly would be proud to run it and yet plenty of peeps get conned by the points.

The biggest positive about QFF however is that it is arguably the easiest/cheapest way to one world sapphire and emerald. Being able to access BA lounges when flying Y around Europe is a very nice perk. The F lounge in Sydney used to be the main reason why I would strive for WP, but the food on the last few visits have been very disappointing and given the reasons above I don’t even bother trying to retain WP anymore. With the constantly declining service and product level of QF, it’s a no brainer to fly a different airline when it’s both cheaper and offers a far superior product. Buying a QF ticket and flying EK on a QF coded flight is a great way of maintaining status.

 

[ACervin]

I have managed to retain both QF gold and SQ gold over the last couple of years. It is evident that QF is better on the ground, where the lounges excel compared to SQ's rather outdated offerings, even the Flagship lounges at Changi are not up to QF's standard. However in the air SQ far surpasses QF, with in my opinion a better seat (the first row in business of the second last generation of seats, is probably the best in the air), service, food and movie offerings. Long-haul, I certainly prefer aircraft comfort to airport niceties. Also SQ's Krisflyer program, while not generous with earnings, it is very easy to find award seats and a minimal service/fuel fee. I will from next year not be able to keep both and I have decided to keep SQ and let QF slide, meaning moving to VA domestically, which I somewhat dread as have always enjoyed QF airport offerings in Australia, but SQ long haul upside wins over.

 

[Vic]

Apparently QF is thinking about introducing a new level of reward seats at twice the price, but with “more” seats.

Say what? They have already done this years ago, with much greater availability and the multiple can be much more than double. Have you heard of points plus pay? Why would they introduce another award type when points plus pay already provides access to every seat available on the plane and is much more profitable?

 

[JohnK]

For international flights as a Qantas Platinum travelling economy the service on other airlines does not come close.

For domestic I can only make a few advanced domestic bookings and I cannot justify the money that Qantas wants for last minute flights so book Virgin and Jetstar.